Need some hanger advice - a "fighter" ship

SoloPlayerZA

Grand Admiral
May 1, 2019
115
455
1,200
RSI Handle
SoloPlayerZA
Hi all

I need some help deciding on a "fighter" ship. I am looking at something that can take down Buccaneers to Caterpillars (or even Hammerheads :) ). It should be almost an everyday ship that can do many types of shooting. With all the research I have done the Vanguard or MIS seem to be the ones to talk about? Not sure?

My main use would be the PVE content (kill ppl, defend ppl, take out bases, etc). If it had PVP capability that would be a bonus but that would be <5% of my gameplay at launch. I am not a great pilot so a brain numb ship of: aim, shoot, kill would be my preference. Not looking for advanced and technical things to do. I am also more of a lone wolf so would have NPC's with me if larger than 1 person ship.

I have a Hawk - which is actually pretty good 1v1. I have taken Buccaneers to Andromedas with no issues. It gets hairy when Sabres come in, or its 3v1. As soon as my wings pop, then its GG. I need to last longer or kill quicker. I also have a Cutty Black, but it feels like a paper-thin pew pew, not sure I want to keep this... But am hoping the multifunction aspect of this ship will play out in the future. Particularly the tractor beam which is gameplay I will have as a scavenger.

1 more thing to consider is that I have a ping of 180 - 320ms, so I don't think bounty-hunting will ever be a thing for me (its hard to disable a ship with high ping, things should just die). If I want to I would then just rather get a BH ship in-game.

Vanguard
I love the beds, storage (for gear, etc), gun rack. The guns seem decent, coupled with missiles seem amazing! It is meant for long range which is very handy - can stay out for an extended period of time. Has a large shield and great armour (maybe?). But many people have issues with it, and I am struggling to understand what it is? I heard that it was also heavily nerfed in the refresh?... One concern is that it is a jack of all trades master of none. It will eventually be able to do many different things but not 1 thing well - almost like the Cutty Black.

MIS
It also has the beds and actual cargo space which is great! Feedback is that this is the best ship for this as it can do everything except mine - but because of its immense dps capability, it is more geared for fighting. The DPS is insane and is much cheaper than the Vanguard, so insane value for money (but info is 200+ days old). However, there is a concern that down the line it will not be as tanky as its hull is a civilian ship, where Vanguard is military. I also heard that missiles were nerfed, so not sure if that is true and if the MIS has thus been heavily nerfed?

I have a MAX so not sure I want 2 lancers. Can the MAX be a great combat ship? Or should I CCU it for the MIS? I have the Star Runner so think I'm sorted for cargo runs... The MIS also has cargo space so should be able to get me to a point where the Star Runner's cargo space can be filled. I can also rather CCU the hawk as I don't think its for me long term.

Are there any other ships to consider? Like the Hurricane? But I don't ever see it in-game, no one talks about it, and not a lot of info on it. It feels meh?

TLDR: Which combat ship would you recommend for all PVE fighting content (killing small to large ships, destroying bases, etc) and why?

Cheers!
 

Michael

Space Marshal
Sep 27, 2016
1,246
4,512
2,650
RSI Handle
Pewbaca
Hi all

I need some help deciding on a "fighter" ship. I am looking at something that can take down Buccaneers to Caterpillars (or even Hammerheads :) ). It should be almost an everyday ship that can do many types of shooting. With all the research I have done the Vanguard or MIS seem to be the ones to talk about? Not sure?
I think you're looking for completely different ships.

I wouldn't call the Vanguard a Jack of all trades. Its a pure combat ship, which has its issues.... But still its a great ship.

  • Since you seem to have narrowed it down to MIS or Vanguard:

I would try MIS first. Also currently the MIS has a harder time due to the new missile changes.

MIS is cheaper -> you can still keep a MIS to Vanguard CCU in buyback
MIS is probably more forgiving on the shooting side (vanguard has a fixed/gimbal different size guns mix) while the MIS has a lot of front faceing firepower at the pilots hand.
I'm not sure how good the turrets of the MIS will help with bad ping. (probably still better than on fixed)
Mis is (a little) bit more Jack of all Trade.
MIS should be pretty soloable. While the Vanguard should be better with a Copilot or NPC/AI blade (soon™).
Vanguard is more agile than the Mis. MIS is more agile than the Max, but still has very slow turning speeds. (which might be good for you with the bad ping?)

BOTH ships will have a hard time 1vs1 a light fighter (who knows what he does)

  • For shooting down Buccaneers i would go for a lighter fighter. Maybe up to Sabre/Super Hornet. (Gladius, Talon, Buccaneer)
 
Last edited:

Aramsolari

Space Marshal
Donor
May 9, 2019
2,247
7,649
1,750
RSI Handle
AramSolari
I have the MIS and I love it.

Vanguard I've tried but I just can't get it to work. I think it's a Your Mileage May Vary thing. Perhaps try both before making a decision? I have the MIS and there are tons of guys here who have that, the Vanguard, or both. We're more than willing to let you test fly them.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

Space Marshal
Donor
Jan 5, 2016
11,755
43,213
3,150
RSI Handle
NaffNaffBobFace
I always say: "Fly Before You Buy"

And then I follow up with: "As it's an Alpha everything is subject to change" because my absolute favorite ship of the game is only that because of what it used to be. I dearly hope one day is might return to it's former glories 🙂

I think you may be able to rent both ships in the 'Verse with aUEC or in AC with REC? Give 'em a try and see how you like them before putting your pledge down.

The yearly AeroSpace Expo is coming next month too, if you can hang on long enough both the ships you are thinking about will be available to fly and try at no cost so you can get a feel for them.
 

Talonsbane

Space Marshal
Donor
Jul 29, 2017
5,308
18,361
3,025
RSI Handle
Talonsbane
Based on your ping issues, I'm guessing that you'd potentially prefer to pop the pinatas from a distance. If that's the case, then after it's released into the PU, you might want to look into an Aries as they have a S7 weapon that the ship is effectively built around. 1 is ballistic, the other has a laser.

The Hurricane is great now that CIG did some work with the turrets, but it currently requires a turret gunner to operate them.

If you end up high enough on the Concierge ladder, I'm sure that the F8C Lightning will allow you to shred some targets with ease as well.

I'd keep the Max for running cargo as it'll have the most cargo that can be hauled through the small jump points, which can come in really handy eventually.
 

SoloPlayerZA

Grand Admiral
May 1, 2019
115
455
1,200
RSI Handle
SoloPlayerZA
Thanks for the feedback so far its great! Please keep em coming! And that's why I want to think about it now, for the expo and anniversary sale - So I want to be super prepared. :) I will definitely poke you all for a test drive!

So far it seems the MIS is a winner (particularly with all the ping arguments Pewbaca is making, very compelling points I did not even consider).

Do you think its worth having both the MAX and the MIS? It feels like a waste to me? Or am I being dumb?
 

Michael

Space Marshal
Sep 27, 2016
1,246
4,512
2,650
RSI Handle
Pewbaca
Its simple a light fighter can easily take out a heavy fighter. It is way more agile and can stay in the blind spots of the ship. So a heavy fighter will have a hard time against a light fighter. The light fighter will have a hard time beating a large ship with its super strong shields (which the light fighter can't break) and turrets. Thats where the heavy fighter will shine.

You can also imagine it with rock paper scissor

Rock is the light fighter
Scissor is a heavy fighter
Paper is a large ship

(This is more pronounced in 1v1)
 

marcsand2

Space Marshal
Staff member
Officer
Donor
Mar 15, 2016
7,007
22,014
3,025
RSI Handle
marcsand2
Gladius or Sabre.
The Gladius is a very good agile fighter. The Hawk has more firepower then the Gladius, but it lacks maneuverability and speed. The Arrow is even more agile then the Gladius, but it lacks one shield. The Sabre is less agile but is OP

Vanguard is a tank, MIS is a missile boat
 

Mastersan

Space Marshal
Aug 14, 2017
356
1,124
2,300
RSI Handle
Mastersan
TLDR: Which combat ship would you recommend for all PVE fighting content (killing small to large ships, destroying bases, etc) and why?

Cheers!
If you want to destroy small to large ships and destroy bases.... hmmm.... Javelin? Or even Retribution may be the best choice...


On the serious note, at this stage in PvE NPC ships are much weaker than regular player ships, so you may have no issues taking down ships up to Andromeda class. If it's a fighter, then a medium fighter (Super Hornet or Sabre) will feel better against small targets (e.g. Buccaneer), while heavy fighter (Vanguard) will fight better against larger targets (e.g. Caterpillar). Both medium and heavy fighters can take down these types of enemies. With latency issues, you may want to opt for gimbal loadouts and missiles.

For the medium fighters, Super Hornet will have more gun power (up to size 4 gun), while the Sabre will have more missile power (up to size 4 missiles). You may vary your loadouts to suit the target.
The heavy fighter will have a lot of firepower and shields/armor, but won't be as nimble.

Freelancer isn't a fighter.

You may also opt to completely avoid close quarters combat and go for Eclipse. Size 9 torpedoes will be able to take down anything up to Caterpillar. The problem may be small stealthy/hard-to-lock-on-torpedoes-quickly ships, which can close distance very quickly and which you may not be able to target, e.g. M50. 🍻
 

Talonsbane

Space Marshal
Donor
Jul 29, 2017
5,308
18,361
3,025
RSI Handle
Talonsbane
I just had a look at that and it looks AMAZING! But I will never be able to climb that ladder. Do you think the F8A will be just as good?
Yes, but those you will only be able to obtain in game after completing some portion of SQ42 & they will cost a ton.

Its simple a light fighter can easily take out a heavy fighter. It is way more agile and can stay in the blind spots of the ship. So a heavy fighter will have a hard time against a light fighter. The light fighter will have a hard time beating a large ship with its super strong shields (which the light fighter can't break) and turrets. Thats where the heavy fighter will shine.

You can also imagine it with rock paper scissor

Rock is the light fighter
Scissor is a heavy fighter
Paper is a large ship

(This is more pronounced in 1v1)
You make a lot of valid points, with 1 exception, if you catch the light fighter by surprise with a long range shot, you can eliminate it's advantages before it even knows that you're there.

Gladius or Sabre.
The Gladius is a very good agile fighter. The Hawk has more firepower then the Gladius, but it lacks maneuverability and speed. The Arrow is even more agile then the Gladius, but it lacks one shield. The Sabre is less agile but is OP

Vanguard is a tank, MIS is a missile boat
A wise gamer would say, there is no such thing as OP, as all OP things are simply waiting in line for themselves to be nerfed severely.
 

Mastersan

Space Marshal
Aug 14, 2017
356
1,124
2,300
RSI Handle
Mastersan
I just had a look at that and it looks AMAZING! But I will never be able to climb that ladder. Do you think the F8A will be just as good?
It's the other way around. F8A is the UEE Military version, while F8C is a Civilian (nerfed) version of F8A. The same goes for F7A and F7C. Typically, the "A" versions have 1 size weapons up from the "C" versions. They may also have larger size components (or may not). So, for example, while F8A has 2 size 4 guns, F8C will only be able to have size 3 guns on the same mounts.
 

Bambooza

Space Marshal
Donor
Sep 25, 2017
5,682
17,881
2,875
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
As @Michael mentioned there is pros and cons with each ship and so there really isn't a ship capable of doing everything on your wish list. Take for instance the MIS. Its a great ship and I enjoy doing the claim jumper missions with it. But up against an Arrow or Gladius its outmatched by their maneuverability. Even the Sabre can typically walk all over the MIS if fighting in an asteroid belt or around a station.

So the MIS is great if you can keep the enemy at a distance and not be working in close quarters. That way you can bring the sizable front guns and tons of missiles to work for you. Which insistently is similar to what you would want to do in the constellation just more pronounced.

Ships like the Hurricane rely on one punch wonders as they can't take a hit but they can dish it out quickly. (reason no one is flying them is because the turret is currently where most of the dps is cant be slaved to the pilot and turrets were not very functional)
Ships like the Hornet are more about being a brawler taking a few hits but still able to fight back. Then ships like the Sabre attempt to allow the pilot to strike first then have enough maneuverability to finish it off before the target can return fire.

Ships like the Vanguard trades a little of its maneuverability and dps for range and survivability. And while the range will be important (think flying across the stanton system in one jump verses several) Its survivability never seemed to be more then the Hornet.

Its hard to judge the bombers at the moment because torpedoes still act like missiles and its unknown if this is intended or just have not had any balance passed performed. But past games have always had torpedoes while dealing large amounts of damage slower and less maneuverable then missiles. And with the showing off of the AI close weapon support guns blowing up torpedoes looks like they are going along the same idea. So bombers will be important but they are not fighters and most likely you wouldn't want to take them out solo.

One ship that is still a wildcard is going to be the Redeemer as its having a complete overhaul. It could be its omnidirectional fire from its turrets will make it easier to fight the more maneuverable fighters like the sabre and gladious vs the MIS

So I would say given your stated skill level and higher ping you wouldn't want to pick a ship that relied on first high landing or survivability from its maneuverability. Your either going to want to fight from a distance or rely on gunners to do the bullet damage for you while focus on flying. With that said my recommendation would be the MIS for now but keep an eye on the Redeemer as more is made available and AI comes online it might very well be the fighter ship you want. In either case you are going to want to keep distance between you and your target and if you get jumped your going to want to run away and not stay and fight. All of these ships are going to be weak/worthless against ships like the Hammerhead as its crafted to destroy them and larger ships will just be able to ignore these fighters due to their shield pool/recharge rate.

But the biggest thing in all of this is knowing your ship and your skills and making sure you engage those ships where you have the advantage and running away from those situations were you are at a disadvantage.
 

AntiSqueaker

Space Marshal
Apr 23, 2014
2,157
5,559
2,920
RSI Handle
Anti-Squeaker
Different ships are going to have different mission profiles.

To an extent a fighter (e.g. Buccaneer) can be outfit to fight different sizes of ships. A Buccaneer with the (still missing with no cause given lmao) 2xS2 remote turret, 2x S2 gimbals, and a bunch of S1 missiles is going to be a lot better knife fighter for countering other light fighters. Whereas a Buccaneer outfitted with a fixed S4, 2 Fixed S3s and a pair of S3 missiles is much better suited for dropping firepower on larger ships like a Caterpillar or Hull-C.

But that's only to an extent- at the end of the day a Buccaneer is still a light fighter with all the strengths and weaknesses that entails.

No one ship can (or should) do it all. Jack of all trade ships (like the Cutlass, Constellation, Freelancer) pay for their generalist nature by not being as good as a focused ship in a single area.

Back to your question.
Hurricane is in a kinda bad place because turrets are in a kinda bad place and it's a ship entirely reliant on turrets (or for the blade system to come online so you can slave/automate the turret). It has astounding DPS on paper and is super fast if not nimble. It's just reliant on a system that's still very much unpolished and unfinished.

Vanguard is a good ship and most of its strong points (redundant systems, long range capacity) aren't even fully into play yet. Really strong firepower (although I don't personally like such reliance on fixed weapons, but YMMV), durable. What's not to love? Aside from the kinda hefty price tag (and later on: repair bill).

One ship that get's looked over a lot is the Gladiator. Very reliant on missiles but it's surprisingly nimble, has fairly decent firepower (especially once turret slaving/automation is online). Crippling issue, last I heard, is that you can't change the order missiles are loaded so you have to blow your torpedoes before you can start laying down pain with your 4 missile racks. Obviously a bit more specialized than a fighter, but if a wing of them can cripple a capital ship than one of them can cripple a Caterpillar 🍻
 

SoloPlayerZA

Grand Admiral
May 1, 2019
115
455
1,200
RSI Handle
SoloPlayerZA
Thank you all for the amazing things to think about!

I had a look at the Gladiator and Redeemer and those points are very valid. I do think that the Redeemer is what I am looking for (well reading what can be) - the only problem is crew 3-5, so this is definitely more of an endgame pew pew ship if combat is something I want to focus more on - but an amazing ship wow! The Gladiator looks like an awesome candidate to replace the Cutty - it has the functions that I would use the Cutty for, just way more specialised and pronounced, with more pew pew utility.

I took the MIS for a spin last night (thanks Wise1!). It was fully upgraded and boy was I surprised! I get why people love this ship. I had many reservations coming from a MAX, but it was WAY more nimble than what I expected. I blew up 7 light fighters before they even passed me. That feeling was exhilarating! The missiles + Gimble, is just what I wanted! I flew for more than an hour not having to repair or refuel, which was awesome. The 20k bug was the only thing that could kill me :p

I have decided to replace the MAX with the MIS (I can't currently justify keeping the MAX in my hanger ONLY for jumping the most cargo through a small jump point, it feels like it's going to gather dust. If this is really THAT important, then I will buy a MAX in-game. A great thought on this is that the MIS can also jump through there with some cargo space, a couple jumps more for the same SCU, but will be able to stand its ground much better in hostile space. If I want to take more cargo, then I'll just use a bigger ship and travel further). The hawk I will replace with either a SH or Sabre (good point on OP is making something ready for a nerf, so that is making me doubt the Sabre). I will have to play with those two to see which feels better for my ping. Anti-Squeaker has put me on a long term path to investigate potentially replacing the Cutty with the Gladiator.

Once again, these are the best thoughts I have come across, thank you sooo much!
 

NaffNaffBobFace

Space Marshal
Donor
Jan 5, 2016
11,755
43,213
3,150
RSI Handle
NaffNaffBobFace
Thanks for keeping us updated, delighted you like the MIS it's going to be a great ship in the 'Verse as unless you're only out for PvP and shooty missions you're going to get a while lot more from that craft 🙂 Range, cargo and punch? The MIS is your friend.
 

PeppaPigKilla

Admiral
Sep 15, 2019
449
1,407
800
RSI Handle
PeppaPigKilla
There is no competition

The one ship you need and it's a glorious bastard of a ship is the Vanguard Warden

I love this ship, I've tried many fighters, and I'm like you by your description and I've found this to be the chonky annihilator

i dont rate the freelancers at all, i dont get the hype,

feels like im driving a



and when inside it looks like
 
Forgot your password?