FPS - World Gaming

ColdDog said:

Ok, I get it developers make money where there is interest and FPS is one of them. I, for one and sick of FPS being the driving factor. I want a FPS experience in the rear (meaning, not the point of the game like COD and Battlefield). What I want from SC and what I think our goal for the "FUTURE" should be.

1. Galaxy with endless solar systems and possibilities.
2. Economy that is actually an economy based on AI tech.
3. I want to build... outposts, space stations, and build equipment/ships. We should have farming, water, fuel, that can be processed and harvested.
4. The game revolves around the SHIP, not the character. I know many people that will hate this idea, but it is a different concept.
5. Dynamic intergalactic control of power like RISK. Test should OWN it piece of the universe and anyone who challenges it should pay.
6. FPS is at the bottom of list... this is a SPACE simulator, not COD. I invested in a space simulator... if FPS is included and does not distract from the core game, I am ok with it. Throwing a grenade is NOT a milestone for me.

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I feel the same way about FPS, but there is a place for it in SC. I just don't think they should put so much effort into it until they get the rest of the game working properly. Simple things would go a long way. Like lining up the HUD with the ship, or making elevators that work. Or trains that are on a closed loop not have to flip around to turn around.... all they need to do is continue along the same path. It feels like they're trying to be too fancy.

Hmmm, I wonder how it's going to work in s42.

ColdDog said:

What I want from SC and what I think our goal for the "FUTURE" should be.

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Yes, this was the original intent of Chris Roberts for Star Citizen.
However, it is turning more into EVE 2.0 with every update......There is still time for Mr. Roberts to get SC back on track.. We shall see.

SQ42 is a completely different 'stand-alone' game.

I agree too. I like the first person immersion (being the character), and am looking forward to bounty hunting on foot. BUT I want more to do while in my ship! I want to be able to scan and find derelict ships and outposts, be able to salvage parts etc. But mostly I want to be able to live in my ship,and only have to go to a station/port to resupply/sell stuff.

Personally, I think any ship that is not a dedicated fighter should have something resembling proper living quarters. I find it annoying that the Prospector has a pretty cool living area, while the cutlass gets beds but no cooking or toilet facilities... What's the point of having a bed if you can have a per in the middle of the night? I thinks ships like the Prospector (and Vulture and Vulcan from the proposed literature) have good layouts, I just wish more ships have something like them.

Think I went a bit of topic... But yes, less FPS and more ship stuff please

I try to avoid FPS when i can, because i simply suck at it and it is not my taste for gameplay.
But it also adds a level of immersion which is nice. Even if i don't like FPS i can tag wih people that can do better if i need to run some ground missions.

Even if it is true that the game revolves around the ship, simply because we are playing in a galaxy with multiple solar systems, thus huge travel distance not covered on foot, i'd like to think the character also has some importance. But as far as we know, if we die for good, it is just replaced by your "heir". I like this idea in general, but we dont have much info about that since 2013. Anyway, it adds some level of immersion, where if you loose your character you might loose more than just a cargo because ships are insured. And you might loose your character in FPS probably more easily than in space. Afaik, all assets should be transferred as stated before :

ColdDog said:

4. The game revolves around the SHIP, not the character. I know many people that will hate this idea, but it is a different concept.

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I'd be bit more specific here, and say the game revolves around the character INSIDE a ship.
I mean, yeah, I don't want to put too much focus on the FPS side either, but I don't want yet another space sim where you play as the ship. The current direction, where you don't even need to sit on the pilots seat while in quantum, is pretty great, but I wish there was more for us to do during the flight (and not just some random busy work either).

What I'd really like to see is the sort of First-Person Grand Strategy Massive Multiplayer Co-op in the sense that the mass of players could on a higher level be gathered to partake in massive, slow moving campaigns that sees the border systems change hands back and forth, massive fleet battles where everyone plays a role and perhaps some small scale surgical operations in between to prepare an advantage for the next battle.

I think the seemingly high focus on the FPS aspects comes from the simple fact that making FPS games has become much easier than making the space sim part. FPS is a known quantity, most ppl who worked for a longer period as a game dev have probably gotten some experience in making FPS games. It's the easier part so it's progressing faster and we see more of it coming online.
I agree with the sentiment, I want a space ship flying game first, then the FPS part is a nice addition.

I have played a lot of FPS shooters in my time and I love them... but for SC, I specifically avoid it as well as all other forms of combat. I just want to explore, discover and profit, all revolving around me and my ship (with some NPC crew and coop'ing with friendly strangers on occasion). Just playing out my own scifi adventure story in complete immersion!

ColdDog said:

Ok, I get it developers make money where there is interest and FPS is one of them. I, for one am sick of FPS being the driving factor. I want a FPS experience in the rear (meaning, not the point of the game like COD and Battlefield). What I want from SC and what I think our goal for the "FUTURE" should be.

1. Galaxy with endless solar systems and possibilities.
2. Economy that is actually an economy based on AI tech.
3. I want to build... outposts, space stations, and build equipment/ships. We should have farming, water, fuel, that can be processed and harvested.
4. The game revolves around the SHIP, not the character. I know many people that will hate this idea, but it is a different concept.
5. Dynamic intergalactic control of power like RISK. Test should OWN it piece of the universe and anyone who challenges it should pay.
6. FPS is at the bottom of list... this is a SPACE simulator, not COD. I invested in a space simulator... if FPS is included and does not distract from the core game, I am ok with it. Throwing a grenade is NOT a milestone for me.

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All this is in Dual Universe , been a ton of fun playing DU while waiting for SC to sell me more non existent ships.

Lorddarthvik said:

I think the seemingly high focus on the FPS aspects comes from the simple fact that making FPS games has become much easier than making the space sim part. FPS is a known quantity, most ppl who worked for a longer period as a game dev have probably gotten some experience in making FPS games. It's the easier part so it's progressing faster and we see more of it coming online.
I agree with the sentiment, I want a space ship flying game first, then the FPS part is a nice addition.

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More then this there was a dramatic shift in the project focus with the introduction of planet tech and procedural generated land. The focus went from the player being a ship to a player being a char in a ship and the ability to move around in different spaces then being tied to flying around points of interest in an expanded universe. In many ways this has opened up the game to far more possible content and catering to different play styles but I can see the frustration in seeing so much development resources being applied to player actor driven game play like grenade throw, body dragging, vaulting and melee combat.

As to why these right now are getting done is simply due to them being easy wins that have no prerequisite like iCache, and are needed for SQ42. As much as we might bemoan it the reality is that SQ42 has gobbled up the vast majority of CIG's development resources as they fully prioritize its release. And while there is a small team dedicated to the PU they are mostly focused on tools and back end services and not so much on introducing new features and game play loops.

Photonz_SC said:

All this is in Dual Universe , been a ton of fun playing GU while waiting for SC to sell me more non existent ships.

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lol you reminded me that I have an account there. I don't think I've logged in for 2 years.

I think that including FPS combat (and by extension, making it good) only makes the goal of a "living breathing universe" more immersive and exciting.

If the original plans for Star Citizen- no first person movement beyond walking around space stations or cities, scripted landing cutscenes instead of being able to land anywhere, planets with just 3 landing zones and the rest blocked off, had come out....I believe it would be stale compared to what we have already.

Getting shot down and having to hoof it back to a LZ to pickup, getting boarded (or boarding someone else), being in a seedy space station and realizing that you're cornered. All of this is impactful and meaningful, and builds a more cohesive and exciting world.

Besides the game is built on Cryengine (or the base is, it's StarEngine or whatever they call it now). It's an FPS engine, and I'm positive that more trouble has gone into making it fit for the massive maps and planets than to get grenade throwing right or the guns to kick properly.

I think it has a place for sure. But that it shouldn't be the focus all the time, just like dogfighting. I think it would be cool to have areas that you can only assail on foot for example. So you need to get people together and actually DO a drop ship mission complete with exfiltration. It would be a great diversion and provide a break from whatever ship based activities folks do.

I'm >not< a fan of the noob tube showing up. Yes...ok I get it....it would and is a part of infantry combat and has a proper place. But in past games I've played it often ends up with both sides standing at max range with everyone lobbing 40mm at each other. If you want that just go play paintball FFS.

It ruins otherwise great games. I used to play a mod for UT back in the day (UT99 they call it now, the first one), called Infiltration. It was a realism mod and done very well, to the point that games have only finally now caught up with most (most), of the features the INF team developed. Things like a dead zone for the mouse that moves the weapon in the characters hands, bullets that are all rendered at the muzzle and projected outwards from there (except for sniper rifles which ray trace out 50' and THEN throw a projectile...not sure why, think the engine back then had a hard time with anything moving above a certain speed?), weapons shot >groups< instead of pinhole perfect rounds every time and the group got bigger at range etc, damage based on caliber and maybe a smidge from barrel length, retaining partial mags and having to rotate them if you do a lot of tactical reloads....etc etc, it was a great mod!

...where was I....right, so anyway in single player or coop the mod was masterful. One of the first to use bullet vs material penetration so it made you thing about cover vs concealment....sorry, doing it again. And online was typically a great experience as well until it got an article in a popular online publication and had a big surge of players. Players, who of course, all loaded out with 40mm. The maps were somewhat small due to the limitations of the engine so there we all were, spawn->die....because some dink was already lobbing rounds from the other side. And the only answer was more noob tubes of course yaaay.....so repugnant. It'd be like reading your favorite Tom Clancy novel and at the end both sides in a raid discover their own box of Federation issue phaser rifles.

I'd enjoy FPS more in SC if (when?), armor defeats most small arms (looking at you SMGs), by degrees. So heavy armor is more effective than light armor would be. Rewarding players with good aim by letting them place shots between armored sections on light/medium or even, sadly, heavy suits.....seriously wtf is with the exposed areas on some of those suits?! And they really need to work on the fluidity of motion. This is the same problem I had with ArmA 3 when it came out....ok not the only one but, in this particular topic...it just feels clunky and unnatural.

And what about those heavy suits? If you read the sales pitch on the core outfits it's talking about them being powered armor....where's my bennys there??

I've spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on various FPS games over the decades so I can honestly say I love the genre. And I'd probably love it in SC if done in a mission setting. But, to me pvp in general in this game should be mission driven and not just a random fragfest full of trolls and angry brats....like it is right now in october.