Am I missing something? Alot of hate and discontent...

Aug 20, 2016
534
1,969
650
RSI Handle
Bruttle
#1
So lately, I have been seeing more and more people voicing their dissatisfaction with SC. They have been getting on 3.0 test servers and what they are finding is leading them either flaming CIG, quit, or both.

I have been following the 3.0 release closely. I haven't played it yet despite having been invited a while back. I am in no hurry and don't want to spoil the experience for myself with patch frustrations. So I am keeping up with the latest patch notes and release schedule while at the same time, trying not to watch any of the gameplay.

What I have found while orbiting the 3.0 release, is that there is a ton of hate and discontent suddenly being vocalized. Sure, to some extent it has been there since day one. This just took it up a notch though. Reddit, Youtube, and various other outlets have really stepped it up with refund tutorials, dissatisfaction videos, etc.

So am I missing something? From what I can gather, they jumped onto the current 3.0 build and found it to be minimalistic and buggy. They were expecting big planets, tons of missions, and everything smooth. Instead they found the polar opposite. That lead to a lackluster experience and the players started asking "what has CIG been doing the last year?"

To me, 3.0 is self evident. The simple fact that the planets (moons in this case) exist at all is proof of the last year. When you add in the item system and subsumption, it feels more like the first time we actually see the core of the game. The entire game had to be reworked for the item system. Subsumption is the introduction of the AI, and the addition of planetary tech is quite literally the first time we are seeing the actual "map". Everything prior was just a skybox with a couple intractable space stations.

The way I see it, everything is promising. You look forward to 3.1 and beyond and it looks so much simpler than 3.0. So I would imagine they will come out much, much faster. You look at how buggy CIG is putting out 3.0, the "abridged" version they are releasing, all this while lifting the NDA, and to me it couldn't be more promising.

The major criticisms I am seeing is that CR is allegedly a perfectionist to a self destructive level. He micromanages to the detriment of production, adds new features fatally, and continually redoes work without any regard for cost and efficiency. People point at the last year and the status of the 3.0 test as proof.

But how can you point at this and claim it's proof? It's certainly not perfectionism. From what I understand, the first release after the NDA lift was near unplayable. Feature creep hasn't held it back, it's feature light actually. If anything, it is proof that CIG knows they are a year behind schedule and need to get this shit out NOW. It looks to me like the very things they are complaining about is the proof that these issues aren't really issues.

Meanwhile, aside from a few questionable sales choices, I haven't been more excited for the future. To me, it all looks like downhill from here. From my limited programming knowlege, it looks like 3.1-4.0 is much, much, much easier. It feels like this is the first time we are actually able to see the game and the rest are just details. Before this, we didn't even know if the game was possible. To me, this is the proof of concept.
 
Aug 20, 2016
534
1,969
650
RSI Handle
Bruttle
#4
People cried that 3.0 wasnt out yet, CIG gave us 3.0 and people cried that it wasnt perfect.

Morale of story, people are going to cry just to cry.
You're not wrong. At the heart of it, I guess I am complaining about the crying... That's crying squared. It's exponential tear growth...
 

Shadow Reaper

Grand Admiral
Jun 3, 2016
1,883
5,823
1,050
RSI Handle
Shadow Reaper
#5
<<So am I missing something?>>

December is the season for discontent. That's why we celebrate Christmas in mid winter--odds are better Christ was born in April. We celebrate in the middle of the dark and cold to keep the discontent at bay, and those who do not come from happy homes are most vulnerable during the holiday season.
 
May 21, 2017
974
4,370
650
RSI Handle
Takeiteasy
#6
I get the upset but honestly, if you don't want to play an alpha don't play it.

People just don't understand how huge and complex this game is. It's never been done before, the game engine for Gran Turismo 5 took about 3 years or 5 years to complete and that was just racing, nothing else.

So yeah. I'm not explaining it but the people crying are only crying because they aren't getting a yearly rehash of something that came out the year before.

They are constantly telling us they are not cutting corners so yes they could have given us all the cool content of 3.0 with less bugs but they are not limiting the game to simply 3.0 they are thinking 10 years from now using the same mechanics being developed now because they know when they need it it'll work because no corners were cut.
 
Mar 10, 2016
691
2,162
750
RSI Handle
Crymsan
#8
Firstly hate is a strong word and not sure its justified. I do think Chris Roberts and team are lousy at managing expectations I mean zero out of ten lousy. So you will get a lot of under delivery if you follow star citizen whether its deadlines content or whatever. 3.0 itself is no big deal the content is not revoluntary its just planet tech which has been done elsewhere, there are a few missions but mostly those aren't in yet and everything else is people just riding around of making there own content (pvp). I of course have tried to log in and cannot enter past the menu except for hangers arena commander etc just get a black screen. Yes its alpha its only been five years its only been no patch for a year and its only been 6 months in bug fixing whats to complain about.

Seriously do not follow the project if you cannot handle waiting you will be waiting a lot.
 
Oct 8, 2016
1,236
4,919
650
RSI Handle
Radegast74
#10
<<So am I missing something?>>
December is the season for discontent. That's why we celebrate Christmas in mid winter--odds are better Christ was born in April. We celebrate in the middle of the dark and cold to keep the discontent at bay, and those who do not come from happy homes are most vulnerable during the holiday season.
If I was a poet, I might even say something like:
"'Tis the summer of Star Citizen *salt*,
and 'tis the winter of our Star Citizen discontent"

People have difficulty understanding what "alpha" means. Instead of educating themselves and having fun with the process (like, searching the Issue Council to see if they can reproduce issues, & report back), they just whine. It helps me better if I just play the game, and stay off the toxic interwebs sites.
 
Feb 7, 2015
140
402
700
RSI Handle
Renstler
#11
I blame the discontent on pepole thinking that game development, specially one such as SC, take a year or 2 to release a la Call of Duty and EA Sports crap. PATIENCE is a virtue. Besides, PTU 3.0 its technically a Pre-Alpha to Alpha release. You should be there reporting bugs and testing things, if not GTFO and wait!
 

Raither

Commander
Nov 2, 2017
111
543
100
RSI Handle
Raither
#13
I hear you Bruttle.
I was on the edge of salt, but thanks to last nights patch, I'm no longer on the outside looking in, though my 3.0 performance is still pretty sketchy. Hopefully this patch will slow down the production in the SC salt mines a little?

I could not even play, and it was not enough to get me salty. I was pretty frustrated sure, who wouldn't be, but I knew CiG would start to clean up the code and shouldn't take too long and holy shit, to my surprise, last nights sneaky little patch really helps!! It definitely is not a saviour, but it's a hell of a lot better than 2 days ago. Some people are reporting 10-15 FPS increases which again, not incredible but it's a step forward at least.
Now if only my Nox would stop taking lessons from the murder doors. Also, dibs on the name Murder Doors for some kind of thrash metal band project...

I see people really going off the deep end and tilting hardcore and threatening to quit too in my research re: how to get every last framerate out of your PC for 3.0 and man I hope they do quit. Don't really want them in the game

I am with you on your outlook though. This stuff takes time and it is promising. SC will happen and it will happen faster and faster now that the groundbreaking, game stopping bugs and programming stops and issues are being realized and solved. We have the foundation for an incredible game. Once the foundation is good(and its getting there), the rest falls in place so much quicker
 

Michael

Vice Admiral
Sep 27, 2016
477
1,858
450
RSI Handle
DasWoelfchen
#15
Well Spectrum was always full of "hate". At least for the time I'm watching the project. I do understand that people want to play the game. And I agree that CIG could be better in communicating some aspects of the game development, especially regarding the future plans of our beloved ships. (Take a look at almost every ship section and you will see a lot of questions which can be easily answered "yes we are still planning caterpillar modules but not yet", "Wait for the Dur it will be good because..., "Dont worry we heard your complaints about the vanguard...)

So at least for some people it might feel that they are considered as only cash cows. And regarding the point cash I think a lot of people would feel better of they knew the (rough) state of CIGs balance.
So in some points CIG is really great at communication but in some points not.
 
Last edited:
Jan 5, 2016
4,118
16,908
1,100
RSI Handle
NaffNaffBobFace
#17
People cried that 3.0 wasnt out yet, CIG gave us 3.0 and people cried that it wasnt perfect.

Morale of story, people are going to cry just to cry.
Looking into my crystal ball, I can see an alternate reality where at the end of of the kickstarter the backers chose to have the game made to schedule rather then have it expanded anbd made to budget.

These people who scream now about delay and featurecreep and not having the game yet - they in this other world complain that they have a $500k game when CIG went on to raise $150 million.

Just like you say, they'd be unhappy either way.
 

Montoya

Administrator
Staff member
Oct 31, 2013
5,234
25,337
2,055
RSI Handle
Montoya
#18
So lately, I have been seeing more and more people voicing their dissatisfaction with SC
I dont know where you have been hanging out, but from my side its the exact opposite.

TEST Squadron has had about 1000 new members in the past few weeks, the biggest influx ever!

Everybody I talk to is aware of the bugs, but also excited about the progress.

Those who understand the state of the game and where its headed are more positive than ever!
 

hardroc77

Grand Admiral
Aug 27, 2015
2,484
8,649
1,410
RSI Handle
hardroc77
#19
So lately, I have been seeing more and more people voicing their dissatisfaction with SC. They have been getting on 3.0 test servers and what they are finding is leading them either flaming CIG, quit, or both.

I have been following the 3.0 release closely. I haven't played it yet despite having been invited a while back. I am in no hurry and don't want to spoil the experience for myself with patch frustrations. So I am keeping up with the latest patch notes and release schedule while at the same time, trying not to watch any of the gameplay.

What I have found while orbiting the 3.0 release, is that there is a ton of hate and discontent suddenly being vocalized. Sure, to some extent it has been there since day one. This just took it up a notch though. Reddit, Youtube, and various other outlets have really stepped it up with refund tutorials, dissatisfaction videos, etc.

So am I missing something? From what I can gather, they jumped onto the current 3.0 build and found it to be minimalistic and buggy. They were expecting big planets, tons of missions, and everything smooth. Instead they found the polar opposite. That lead to a lackluster experience and the players started asking "what has CIG been doing the last year?"

To me, 3.0 is self evident. The simple fact that the planets (moons in this case) exist at all is proof of the last year. When you add in the item system and subsumption, it feels more like the first time we actually see the core of the game. The entire game had to be reworked for the item system. Subsumption is the introduction of the AI, and the addition of planetary tech is quite literally the first time we are seeing the actual "map". Everything prior was just a skybox with a couple intractable space stations.

The way I see it, everything is promising. You look forward to 3.1 and beyond and it looks so much simpler than 3.0. So I would imagine they will come out much, much faster. You look at how buggy CIG is putting out 3.0, the "abridged" version they are releasing, all this while lifting the NDA, and to me it couldn't be more promising.

The major criticisms I am seeing is that CR is allegedly a perfectionist to a self destructive level. He micromanages to the detriment of production, adds new features fatally, and continually redoes work without any regard for cost and efficiency. People point at the last year and the status of the 3.0 test as proof.

But how can you point at this and claim it's proof? It's certainly not perfectionism. From what I understand, the first release after the NDA lift was near unplayable. Feature creep hasn't held it back, it's feature light actually. If anything, it is proof that CIG knows they are a year behind schedule and need to get this shit out NOW. It looks to me like the very things they are complaining about is the proof that these issues aren't really issues.

Meanwhile, aside from a few questionable sales choices, I haven't been more excited for the future. To me, it all looks like downhill from here. From my limited programming knowlege, it looks like 3.1-4.0 is much, much, much easier. It feels like this is the first time we are actually able to see the game and the rest are just details. Before this, we didn't even know if the game was possible. To me, this is the proof of concept.
I could not have said it better.
And to be honest, I am actually enjoying some of the bugs I run into in the PTU. When I try to replicate a bug and run into a different one, it's kind of like a "I didn't expect that to happen" moment. Sometimes frustrating, but mostly interesting. I hope I don't find the game boring upon full release.
You just have to consider whiners to be side evolution of trolls. Ignore them and carry one.
 
Sep 25, 2017
1,703
5,621
650
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
#20
So lately, I have been seeing more and more people voicing their dissatisfaction with SC. They have been getting on 3.0 test servers and what they are finding is leading them either flaming CIG, quit, or both.

I have been following the 3.0 release closely. I haven't played it yet despite having been invited a while back. I am in no hurry and don't want to spoil the experience for myself with patch frustrations. So I am keeping up with the latest patch notes and release schedule while at the same time, trying not to watch any of the gameplay.

What I have found while orbiting the 3.0 release, is that there is a ton of hate and discontent suddenly being vocalized. Sure, to some extent it has been there since day one. This just took it up a notch though. Reddit, Youtube, and various other outlets have really stepped it up with refund tutorials, dissatisfaction videos, etc.

So am I missing something? From what I can gather, they jumped onto the current 3.0 build and found it to be minimalistic and buggy. They were expecting big planets, tons of missions, and everything smooth. Instead they found the polar opposite. That lead to a lackluster experience and the players started asking "what has CIG been doing the last year?"

To me, 3.0 is self evident. The simple fact that the planets (moons in this case) exist at all is proof of the last year. When you add in the item system and subsumption, it feels more like the first time we actually see the core of the game. The entire game had to be reworked for the item system. Subsumption is the introduction of the AI, and the addition of planetary tech is quite literally the first time we are seeing the actual "map". Everything prior was just a skybox with a couple intractable space stations.

The way I see it, everything is promising. You look forward to 3.1 and beyond and it looks so much simpler than 3.0. So I would imagine they will come out much, much faster. You look at how buggy CIG is putting out 3.0, the "abridged" version they are releasing, all this while lifting the NDA, and to me it couldn't be more promising.

The major criticisms I am seeing is that CR is allegedly a perfectionist to a self destructive level. He micromanages to the detriment of production, adds new features fatally, and continually redoes work without any regard for cost and efficiency. People point at the last year and the status of the 3.0 test as proof.

But how can you point at this and claim it's proof? It's certainly not perfectionism. From what I understand, the first release after the NDA lift was near unplayable. Feature creep hasn't held it back, it's feature light actually. If anything, it is proof that CIG knows they are a year behind schedule and need to get this shit out NOW. It looks to me like the very things they are complaining about is the proof that these issues aren't really issues.

Meanwhile, aside from a few questionable sales choices, I haven't been more excited for the future. To me, it all looks like downhill from here. From my limited programming knowlege, it looks like 3.1-4.0 is much, much, much easier. It feels like this is the first time we are actually able to see the game and the rest are just details. Before this, we didn't even know if the game was possible. To me, this is the proof of concept.

Some of the salt is justifiable. It has been 5 years since the kickstarter and over two years since we saw the demo of planetary tech and them seamlessly going from space to landing on a procedurally created planet. 3.0 is over a year late in its release and so there is clearly a trend of ampled expectations of promises that the release of new amazing content is soon upon the community only to be greatly delayed and when released far from expectations. While we know that the ship pipeline has been severely disrupted multiple times in the past few years most recently with the introduction of item 2.0 causing them to have to go back to all of the created ships and rework them to fit with the new tech, geometric's, animations and finalized artwork design, this does not translate well to the public who already saw and have flown many of those ships in 2.0. Rework of code of assets and such sucks because it takes a lot of time and while the long term beneficent mandates its task the final product generally shows none of it. And that is what we see now and why there are so many tears. People have waited are eager to play this magnificent game and do not see why there has been no progress made in over 2 years. So as much as you and I understand the rework was necessary to accommodate the expanded scope and to facilitate tool creation that will allow faster completion of assets it does not translate well. The game engine itself is still in a state of flux as they attempt to rework it and until its finished I fully expect things to take years more to reach completion.