How to suck less in dogfighting?

[HID45]

Ok, I'm fully aware that this community is all about crashing Auroras. But let's say one finds himself in a situation that he has run out of Auroras to crash and needs to revert to an act of randomly waggling his joystick (no, not THAT joystick, the other one) some like to call dogfighting. How is that supposed to work?

Couple of questions pop to my mind.

1. Is it more important to aim or to manouver? Yes yes, both are important, but when I'm starting from zeroish skillz, would it be more beneficial to first learn how to connect the lasers to the enemy or to move around less randomly?

2. When flying something like, lets say Super duper Hornet in a dogfight, should it be flown decoupled all the time, or mostly coupled and just decouple to do some random waggling when near the enemy? Does this differ in faster and more nimble ships like M50 or 350r?

3. Any advice on how/when to spam missiles. As AC is basically a deathmatch and getting 1-3 kills per game would be good result to me, I usually lock 4-8 missiles to the closest enemy and fire away when I get lock and hope for best.

4. Why I die in seconds in Super duper Hornet against something lame like Deltas or 325a's? Super duper Hornet should be "military grade". Not very high grade in UEE military then, I suppose.

5. Is dogfighting for lamers only and should I just concentrate on crashing into things instead?

My joystick is Thrustmaster T16000000000. It has this kind of throttle slider, which is quite crap but still better than no analog throttle at all. I'm not getting HOTAS anytime soon. And mouse + KB flying is quite... hmmm... lame. (I was gonna say gay, but I'm not that familiar with this board yet to know if it would offend someone and get me permabanned)

 

[Tooterfish]

My advice; mouse and keyboard, gimbals, decouple on a situational basis.

 

[Lienna]

1) If you are starting with zero skill then I would focus on manoeuvring. Open up a free flight in dying star and get used to flying through the asteroid fields. Ideally try to fly at top speed using your manoeuvring thrusters to avoid collisions . Then try flying through them with comstab set to off and notice the differences, when you want to start aiming, pick an asteroid and do a flyby, once you are in shooting distance with a safe trajectory hit decouple, turn and fire at the rock as you pass it, try and keep your aim at the same point as your drift past. If you can do that consistently then you need to move onto moving targets in vanduul swarm.


2) Some people swear by decoupled all the time, but I believe most people do it for occasional use.


3) Most ships will go down from 2 missiles, so spamming all 4 doesn't really help. Generally if you fire 4 missiles you don't have much greater chance of one hitting than if you fire 1, so it's usually best to fire 4 lots of 1 than one lot of 4. I find missiles are useful to keep your target on its toes, people start scrambling for the flare/chaff buttons and get a bit distracted from their manoeuvring allowing you to get a few shot in.


4) Super hornets are military grade, but then you are comparing them to the military mustang and the military 300 series... As much as people bitch about 6 Omni 6 super hornets, the game *is* skill based and if you fly predictably then you'll get torn up quickly regardless of your ship. Super hornet's are good, you might want to try mouse and joystick flying to best use the 6 gimballing weapon slots.


5) Crashing is a valid part of dogfighting tactics, often employed by people who have lost thier guns and/or people who don't know how to strafe (side note: learn to strafe or get used to meeting other ship's pilots as they fly through your cockpit pane)

 

[HID45]

Great, this is good info, thanks.

Btw, Super duper Hornet has 8 missiles so spamming 4 is not all, just mere half :)

 

[Mettan]

From what I have seen so far, maneuvering is key but but not at the coast of your ability to aim. There is no real point in zooming around at full speed, its a space sim so use your thrusters to get around them and doge their fire.

Decoupled mode is awesome, some of the time. It is a good way to maneuver while moving in a set direction, for instance, I use it when I want to lure people in after me, boost, decouple and let them fall in behind me while I have sights on them. You can also use thrusters while decoupled so you don't need to go in a strait line.

They did an awesome job in balancing missiles, if you spam them on a guy you are going to miss most of the time. I find just getting a missile lock often can be more effective. You can get them to blow their flares early or you can get them to break from a wing man without even shooting at them. If I have them hurting I will hit them with a missile when I know it will connect. Also keep in mind a Hornet can lock up to three missiles on a target at once.

Your wing man is your friend, You have no chance in a two on one, its not even funny. If there is more than one on you, run, let your wing man clean them up. Also, Work with your wing man on single targets, they go down a lot faster.

Just keep in mind, I may sound like I know what I am saying, but most of this I picked up from being made a plasma cushion, so take it for what it is =P

 

[Jeygo]

Disclaimer: I mainly play VS but see what you think!

1. Both! But mainly aiming probably, if you're going to be in a one-on-one fight you'll both have radar view of each other before you're in gun range so if you can land shots on him faster than he can on you, result. With maneuvering try not to be predictable, don't make long sweeping turns as it gives people time to shoot at you. Thrusters can be used to 'sidestep' incoming fire and you can do things like wait to only engage lone targets and let groups disperse.

2. Decouple is great fun but it does tend to make you more prone to dying, as you're usually flying in a predictable, easy-to-shoot straight line and not looking where you're flying, like into asteroids.

3. Missiles are more a matter of skill now, you want to fire when the target is not moving too fast across you. So if you're right behind/right in front of someone then great, but if they're flying at 90 degrees to your flight path right in front of you, the missile can't turn fast enough or they'll just drop a flare and escape. I find that if someone flies right past you they'll immediately turn and shoot, so if you anticipate and spin around early to face them mid-flip they'll be vaguely stationary as they're changing direction hard and very easy to hit.

4. All ships are good in the right hands. The 6 guns on the mighty hornet are pretty useless if you can't hit anything though, so practice aiming!

5. Dogfighting is good. Crashing is good. Why not both? Your ship is simply another very big missile in your arsenal, you just have to aim it a bit better.

 

[HID45]

2. Decouple is great fun but it does tend to make you more prone to dying, as you're usually flying in a predictable, easy-to-shoot straight line and not looking where you're flying, like into asteroids.

This!

Many many times I have switched to decoupled and been all like "Ha-haa, I'm so cunning! I'm moving away from you and still shooting at you. How 'bout that. Now u go down!" -> *computer goes haywire, yelling all sorts of collision warnings* -> "shitshitshit, boost you lazy whale of a 'fighter'" -> *HID45 died*

 

[Mettan]

Dogfighting is good. Crashing is good. Why not both? Your ship is simply another very big missile in your arsenal, you just have to aim it a bit better.

I do that too, but I try to remember that when the pu goes live that can mean perma death.

 

[Hitsugan]

Ok, since I have improved a little in my last AC plays and I also suck balls, let me share what I think could help.*

* Advices should be taken carefully. Everything I say here might kill you instead of helping you.

1. It is essencial to learn how to aim first. You should spend some time to learn where your shots are going to land (AKA that little diamond shaped reticle) while you fly. You should use that when chasing people of course, becaue when you are running (Assuming a TESTie runs from someone instead of facing them and crashing) you should learn how to manouver properly.

2. Only decouple when you are sure to land some damage and can afford to fly in a predictable path. Don't always decouple. As said above you'll get shot or crash into asteroids.

3. Lock 1 missile > Shoot > Hit/Miss > Repeat until its killed. You should use it when anemies are flying in straight paths.

4. There isn't much to say here. A civilian with a pistol can kill a marine, all it takes is to land all the shots while the marine misses all of his shots.

5. You should focus on crashing into your enemies. Nothing says "I own you" better than crashing your aurora into someone else's super hornet.

 

[Hitsugan]

I do that too, but I try to remember that when the pu goes live that can mean perma death.

If I remember well the character progression in the game should avoid "permadeath", at least of your account. I read somewhere that when you get your license (The game "tutorial" will lead you to it) you name a heir to all your stuff. So if you "die" a lot ("Dying" only count as getting badly injured, until you actually die one time) eventually you die and you create another character that receive all of your previous character's stuff.

So permadeath is cool if you don't get emotional with your characters. For role players its bad though.

 

[HID45]

Thanks for all the great advice. Keep it coming still if u have something. So for now there is a consensus that noob like me should:

- Learn how to aim
- Not decouple all the time, but on occasional basis
- Lock missiles to enemies to distract them
- Only spam missiles one at the time, when enemy is moving in a straight line in relation to you
- Not fly full speed all the time
- Crash

What kind of speed should be used in combat? Surely to accelerate/break when necessary, but is there an advisable basic speed to use like 50%, 75% or something? Elite Dangerous has this cool marking next to speedometer that shows the speed in which the ship has the best velocity/maneuverability-rate, meaning that would be the optimal combat velocity.

How do you configure your weapons? I have found the best way to just group all weapons to same fire group (except missiles of course). Is there any benefit in using multiple fire groups? And is there a way to either save or macro the fire group settings? Every time i die (which is constant) the fire groups reset and I have to assign them again. It gets old after a while.

I have to say Elite does lot of things better combat-wise than SC. For example the lasers move at light speed as they are supposed to, so they require no lead. Projectiles move at speed, so they need to be led. Also the gimballs autolock, as they should. They are very well balanced too. Gimball autolock does not mean automatic hit, and they are much weaker than fixed weapons. Gimballing is feature of the weapon, not the hardpoint, so one can get either gimballed or fixed weapons depending on preference. SC has lot to learn from E: D.

 

[Mettan]

Actually, if you have not tried this yet see if it makes a difference. Use the head tracker the L button. You should hit a lot more often.

 

[Jeygo]

In terms of speed, try some out to see what suits you. I go for 100% in open space but reduce to about 75% (hornet) when near asteroids, as usually i just end up banging into things (not very good at flying). There seems to be a divide between people who like loading up with a variety of weapons, some to burn through shield and some to burn through armour, and some who like to put all guns of the same type on to just give a single targeting reticule. Both have merits, depends what you like. People will disagree whatever you choose to do! :p
Not sure about macro weapons sorry, I know there isn't a way of saving weapon loadouts on exit as such, maybe that'll be implemented down the line. In the first iteration of AC the guns did auto-gimble to hit a target directly in your front sights, but it was changed to try and make flying skill more of a factor, and I guess because they felt it was a better way of doing it. E: D is great sure, but remember this is still pre-alpha so don't be quick to judge just yet, all the things you dislike may well be changed down the line!

 

[Sgt_Kiwi]

do what i do. Get real drunk then you dont care

 

[HID45]

The "L" button thingy is really great in Vanduul swarm, but it's somehow messed up in multiplayer modes. As soon as I hit L the camera starts to roll around randomly. It's quite difficult to fly when the camera is pointing backwards or just rolling around like crazy.

I ditched playing battle royale altogether as it only made me frustrated (getting killed in 2-3 seconds after getting to firing distance gets old pretty fast), moved to those squardon matches instead. In those I survive little longer, but my kill/death ratio is still well below 1. Did my personal record in VS with wave 13 and some 70k points with Super duper Hornet. That's how bad I am.

 

[mindfart]

Play more SB, after I played a couple of hours of SB, I owned the vanduul :P

 

[Beef Squatch]

I must say playing multiplayer can be frustrating, flying around in my dinky little Aurora LN, while Hornets packed to the gills gut me in about 2 seconds.

 

[DragonHeart]

My advice; mouse and keyboard, gimbals, decouple on a situational basis.

I agree, mouse and keyboard with gimbals are a win

 

[HID45]

I agree, mouse and keyboard with gimbals are a win

Naah, no can do. I admit I would probably do better with that. But you don't control fighters with mouse and keyboard... It's just... wrong. I rather suck.

I got the Delta. Liking it lot more than Super duper Hornet. Thinking about melting the Hornet. Thoughts?

 

[Reptar Khan]

http://www.quora.com/Is-dogfighting-aerial-battle-between-fighter-aircrafts-a-thing-of-the-past
http://www.quora.com/What-does-modern-air-warfare-fighter-vs-fighter-look-like

Going to keep reading up on dogfighting tactics (most Solid Idea-wise, some implementable AC-wise)