Theorycrafting / Question about medical gameplay and large battle logistics:

MikeNificent

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Sep 24, 2016
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MikeNificent
#1
What do we do with all of the folks getting fixed up or respawning in our ships?

Scenario: RSI Apollo fills up 6 class III beds with wounded from large org battle in deep space. Wounded are stabilized and moved to nearby Endeavor Hope for treatment. Patients are treated. 2nd Apollo shows up loaded with 2 Cutty Reds right behind it. 12 more patients total. Treated. 10 more patients show up. Treated. We're 20 minutes into the battle and we now have 28 personnel who have shown up, been treated and have nowhere to go. Do we call cabs for them? Do they call their own cabs via service beacons? We're in the middle of nowhere and they can't spawn a ship even if they wanted to. Who's gonna come get them? How long will it take? 10 minutes later and we've got 8 more people milling about. 5 more. 11 more. Javelin blew up. Ambulances lined up out the door. And so on and so on.

This scenario seems possible given the size of servers and OCS kicking into full gear. People are gonna get wounded and die on a large scale. They will spawn and/or get fixed up and then... they will multiply to the point of overcoming the ship's life support systems unless we can get them gone as fast as they show up. It's almost like we need a Valkyrie to play taxi for every Endeavor hope to get these zombies off the ship before they can become a problem.

Am I crazy? I know you medical folks have thought about this. What say you?
 

Radegast74

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Oct 8, 2016
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Radegast74
#2
Just throwing this out there, somewhere in the Valkyrie concept ship info, they talked about using NPC's as ground troops. So, a certain number or percentage of troops (at least in some assaults) could potentially be NPC's ... so, we may not have to treat *everybody*.

But yeah, casualties could be high, even in non-large org battles. If they set up missions so that a lot of them get sent out to two opposite teams (e.g., "Team A get the box from the 'thieves'," while Team B is being instructed to protect the same box from "marauders") then I could easily expect 30% casualties on both sides (losers having more than winners). If you do 3 missions like this, you could easily expect to die once...over the course of a couple of months, some people could be facing "perma-death". The whole "Death of a Spaceman" idea may have to get either re-thought out, or seriously reworked.

TL;DR --> The Medical profession could be highly lucrative in game!
 
Sep 27, 2016
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DasWoelfchen
#5
I think we will have to distinguish between ground battles and ship battles. (also don't hurt this poor german if he might use military terms wrong) So this is my idea about ground troops:
So first of all you will want to setup battle point(s) [BP], a gathering point(s) GP and the medical point [MP]
BP is where the battle starts and casualties might be gathered.
GP is when battle goes wrong and/or where heavy casulties need to be brought
MP is where the endeavor patches people up.

Assuming battle goes in our favor:
Light and heavy casualties will be brought to BP, via preferably Cutlass red etc. Also maybe an Apollo might wait there to patch those "mid casualties".
Cutlasses will bring back those who are patched up into battle. Apollo when full or in case of almost dead will bring troops to GP. Meanwhile it might patch up other heavy casualties.
Those who can't be rescued will be brought to the endeavour at MP. And those will probably be out of game anyway.

Assuming battle doesnt goes in our favor:
All troops we can rescue will brought to GP sorted there and maybe brought to MP -> new battle point needs to be setup.
 

Wolfy

Space Kitty
Apr 27, 2017
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WolfytheWarlock
#9
Oh, crap, when did they remove the Hope's ability to summon player ships in the hangar module? Take a few months off to move out of state and the game goes to hell in a handbasket...
It was always an up-in-the-air mechanic since ships have no autopilot what would you do with the NPC who delivered the ship to you?
 

supitza

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Aug 5, 2015
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AstroSupitza
#10
What do we do with all of the folks getting fixed up or respawning in our ships?
After getting patched up, they can easily set up a beacon requesting someone to pick them up and take them wherever they want to go.
 

supitza

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Aug 5, 2015
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AstroSupitza
#14
In the Kraken Q&A they indicated the owner of the ship can store and call multiple ships they own from a kiosk for pad control but other players can only physically land on pads and hangers, taking that slot up until they leave or are removed.
I wish they could just add the kiosk to the ship, so you can call in a new ship while you're in the ship.
That would really up the value of ships with landing bays/hangars. But I'm sure their reasoning would be "bla bla physics grids... bla bla object container streaming...bla bla fidelity"
 

Shadow Reaper

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Jun 3, 2016
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Shadow Reaper
#15
Just throwing this out there, somewhere in the Valkyrie concept ship info, they talked about using NPC's as ground troops. So, a certain number or percentage of troops (at least in some assaults) could potentially be NPC's ... so, we may not have to treat *everybody*.
There is a ton that CIG has not committed to yet so it's painfully difficult to theorycraft here, but IIUC, they have said NPCs will not respawn. You can heal them, but when they die they are dead and don't come back--NPCs really do suffer permadeath.

And IMHO, NPCs may well become the single largest expense for players. Even if they only cost $2/[email protected], how many do you want on your ships? If you own a Valkyrie, wouldn't you have it full of marine NPCs? That's going to cost serious pesos, is my guess.
 

maynard

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May 20, 2014
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mgk
#16
And IMHO, NPCs may well become the single largest expense for players. Even if they only cost $2/[email protected], how many do you want on your ships? If you own a Valkyrie, wouldn't you have it full of marine NPCs? That's going to cost serious pesos, is my guess.
if you have a Valkyrie full of Marines you will be offered missions that the plebs will never see, with rewards commensurate with the expenses incurred

this will be one of the major advantages of TEST membership - our size will mean availability of large specialized ships and mates online to crew them so you don't have to pay NPCs for your off-line time
 

Shadow Reaper

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Shadow Reaper
#17
I think that is objectively true and hopefully will be true of replacing munitions, fuel, providing repairs, etc., but I also think if you own a Polaris for example; you will want to keep a dozen marines on it constantly, so that you can't be boarded and so you can pose an imediate threat to any target simply by picking up the necessary minimum crew. Anything over the minimum is great, but who wants to miss a mission because they don't have enough turret gunners?

Also note, PCs will likely cost more than NPCs. They need a cut of the action to justify their time and any incurred risk. If you are running marines, you certainly need a Master Sargent to point and command them, and that is worth paying big pesos to a player, IMHO.

Conversely, I am still hoping we can pay NPCs as escorts and supply them the ships. If you can do that, then you can plan missions around munitionss that use the AI of the missile and torp mechanics, and sidestep the issue that NPCs can't target as well as PCs. If for example you need an escort and can pay NPC pilots to fly your own birds, you may find that it is more beneficial to have Gladiators on wing than Hornets, since the missiles and torps use a different AI than NPCs do. Supposedly, NPCs can't target as well as players, but that doesn't seem to me would matter for a missile or torp which uses the same AI regardless.

At least one hopes. . .

It appears possible one could control an entire wing of Eclipse if NPC wingmen simply mimic what the lead pilot does, and though those ships would be spendy, the effect could be a game changer.

Why own an Idris or Javelin for fleet engagements if you can command an entire squadron of stealth bombers by yourself? I am totally invested in finding out what is with this notion and have been for a couple years. Just needs remember that Eclipse do not have the range of a Javelin. For real range you need a Harbinger.
 
Nov 2, 2017
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Horatus
#18
Transit Citizen as CR called it has me wondering. Will be spend most of our time playing transport citizen? People have to spend time getting someplace, then spend time getting things there (like a Pioneer) and then transport materials/fuel there (I would imagine a pioneer cant craft base modules with out resources) which would in turn have to be provided by miners, hauled by Hull E's... We could spend more time driving the economy than shooting each other.

The same could be true for hospital ships and deep space fleets/bases. You have what is on hand and respawn/resupply could be few and far in-between which could add a whole new dimension to the game.
 

MikeNificent

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Sep 24, 2016
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MikeNificent
#19
After getting patched up, they can easily set up a beacon requesting someone to pick them up and take them wherever they want to go.
I see this as the "tier 0" implementation, but it's not feasible for any situation with lots of casualties. I dont think the Ubers would show up fast enough. Imagine the taxi line in your hangar getting mowed down by an Apollo inbound with casualties. At least they are already at the hospital!
 
Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
#20
It is an interesting theory craft concept. And others have been right in their breaking it down into two separate battle fields those in space and those on the ground.

Space battles are going to be highly dependent on the orgs carrier fleet to allow recovered pilots to jump back into the space battle. Other tasks would be to join up with boarding parties to take over enemy capital ships or repeal boarding parties. Capital ships survivability will be highly dependent on its crew to repair/replace modules and repeal boarding parties. The other thing to keep in mind is ships like the Endeavor and Apollo will be recognized as being high value targets and so will need to be protected and will probably be the first to bug out if things go sideways.

Ground combat looks to play out more like what we see when playing games like Call of Duty and Battlefield where the FPS mechanics will give the medic role far more usability to recover both players and NPC’s patch them up so that they can get back into combat. While some combat will be enhanced with ships like the Valkyrie, Hercules A2, Nova and Cyclone a lot of the combat will be close quarters and pushing inside buildings where the only thing that will need to be replaced is a soldier’s gun when they get medically evaced.

One other thing to keep in mind is while priority should be given to PC’s, NPC’s will also need to be evaced and patched up before sending it back into the fray as victory could pivot on how many NPC’s we can keep on the front line.