I'm seeing a shitstorm blowing over Spectrum way...

Bambooza

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A consent prompt would also be an elegant simple solution, could even add a menu option to inherently accept/reject medical treatment if you don't make a selection from the prompt.
Not sure it's needed as the issue currently with it is the armistice zones prevent you as a player from reacting in the appropriate hostile way towards unwanted medical treatment as well as the server's current limitations preventing AI from also reacting. While it is a medical action that is harmful and as such, it should allow the correct reputation ding, security force interaction (its Stanton) as well as the player engaging in wanted self-defense. It also allows for emergent gameplay with the ability to drug and kidnap/secure a mark and many other possible solutions. While the armistice zones do serve a purpose in preventing the servers from deteriorating into a spawn camp bloodbath they also oftentimes get in the way of allowing players to police themselves. How many times have you had an unwanted stowaway that you could not remove from your ship? Or those who seem unable to control the trajectory of their ship and are crashing into everything... never mind standard test flying, but still helpful if you could help them vent some of that over-pressurization due to all the compression dents they keep putting in their ship.

All that to say it's generally better to put into place rules that allow the player population to police themselves than to try and implement hard and fast rule sets that greatly restrict gameplay along with not really preventing the undesirable actions as there is always a way. A reputation system has the potential to do just that allowing you to do pretty much anything once just like in RL but the consequences can be severe and hopefully in such will prevent most players from being overly abusive to each other in systems that are heavily patrolled like Stanton while giving players the freedom to venture out into the wilds at their own comfort levels.

If you want to see a great case study of hard rules being abused one only needs to look at the evolution of Eve in empire space. After all, it gets no better than gank squads who found they can use cheap ships to quickly blow up miners for the sole reason being they could.
 

Deroth

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Not sure it's needed as the issue currently with it is the armistice zones prevent you as a player from reacting in the appropriate hostile way towards unwanted medical treatment as well as the server's current limitations preventing AI from also reacting. While it is a medical action that is harmful and as such, it should allow the correct reputation ding, security force interaction (its Stanton) as well as the player engaging in wanted self-defense. It also allows for emergent gameplay with the ability to drug and kidnap/secure a mark and many other possible solutions. While the armistice zones do serve a purpose in preventing the servers from deteriorating into a spawn camp bloodbath they also oftentimes get in the way of allowing players to police themselves. How many times have you had an unwanted stowaway that you could not remove from your ship? Or those who seem unable to control the trajectory of their ship and are crashing into everything... never mind standard test flying, but still helpful if you could help them vent some of that over-pressurization due to all the compression dents they keep putting in their ship.

All that to say it's generally better to put into place rules that allow the player population to police themselves than to try and implement hard and fast rule sets that greatly restrict gameplay along with not really preventing the undesirable actions as there is always a way. A reputation system has the potential to do just that allowing you to do pretty much anything once just like in RL but the consequences can be severe and hopefully in such will prevent most players from being overly abusive to each other in systems that are heavily patrolled like Stanton while giving players the freedom to venture out into the wilds at their own comfort levels.

If you want to see a great case study of hard rules being abused one only needs to look at the evolution of Eve in empire space. After all, it gets no better than gank squads who found they can use cheap ships to quickly blow up miners for the sole reason being they could.
Though, to be able to police ourselves, we'd also need to be able to have a way to identify the other player, especially at more crowded locations, so CIG is eventually going to have to cave on nametags in FPS.
 

vahadar

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Well, I'm sick & tired of CIG effectively promoting these sorts of bullying tactics & efforts. So I just made a post demanding that CIG do something about it as well as end the anonymity of players that attack others. I'd like the support of as many of you as would be willing to upvote my post to force CIG to respond.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/enough-is-enough-it-s-time-to-end-the-anonymity-of/284012
As others mentioned, it is a bit radical and do not focus on the sole issue of OD and identifying trolls. There are better solutions that could be used as counters like the ideas above, than targeted revenge and name shaming.

Also it seems your thread has been locked. You got a response from CIG but probably not the one you expected.
 
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Lorddarthvik

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A consent prompt would also be an elegant simple solution, could even add a menu option to inherently accept/reject medical treatment if you don't make a selection from the prompt.
While consent was my first idea too, I see that it has it's issues. That's not what we need.

One downside I see is the potential gameplay of dosing an assassination target with poison gets more problematic. Maybe it can be coded in that if you accept a mission to kill/capture someone (cos not every poison has to be lethal, could just cause paralysis), that someone doesn't get a prompt when you try to attack em with a med gun. Maybe it's too much work, I dunno. It is still restrictive, something I don't see CIG willing to do.
The medi gun is a tool that I imagine would be permitted through customs later on, even if guns are not, and could serve as a concealed weapon with the right poison load. You would have to get the poison through customs somehow too, which could be part of the smuggling gameplay loop. Again, so much potential.
Although there hasn't been any word on what they are planning to do with said customs stations in a very long while, so this whole thing might be pointless anyways.



With armistice going away the whole problem of getting OD-d might get fixed by the victim being able to shoot back. The only question is, will CIG code this in properly so you don't get killed by the guards. The way around this issue, is not a consent popup, but another one similar to "X commited crime against you" type:
- If you get shot with a medigun by a party member, it just works and nothing else happens
- if some rando shoots you with the medigun and you are still conscious, you get a popup of "do you want to report X for tagging you with medgun"
- if you say yes, any guards in your local shouting range will be alerted and you will be allowed to shoot X
. if you go unconscious/get killed/get fully paralyized from that first shot, you do not get to shout for help (report) X and that's it. OD potential of drugs will should to be adjusted in a way so with the default healing/buff cocktails you can't one-shot a supposedly healthy player, you would need specific loads for that

There, problem solved.
It's immersive, it's not artificially imposed limitation, and it gives you a chance to fight back. But we need armistice to end already for this to work.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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A consent prompt would also be an elegant simple solution, could even add a menu option to inherently accept/reject medical treatment if you don't make a selection from the prompt.
A Yes/No consent would not really be "realistic" though in the sense that they are trying to make a Simulator of a future universe...

How would it physically work? What conditions would need to be met to have it as an option (Wear armour, wear an undersuit, just wear underpants?) and if its just wear underpants (the default), how is someone running around a landing zone with no clothes on not being able to be knocked out with a med-gun realistic just because they keep screaming "No!,No!,No!" whenever someone tries to intervene... and where would the permissions system stop once implemented? Just as an example: Outside of armistice zones, there is no concent system for taking damage from weapons, from taking damage from falling etc. Negative effects are forced upon you from everything which can harm you. If you make a permissions button for medical application, arguments will be put forward for all forms of harm to have permissions. (remember the long running complaints around the PvP slider topic)

Unless in 2951 they have worked out a way to make acceptance of incoming care stoppable, I don't know, by coding a Y/N response to your DNA or something which would disable the injection system (which is a little handwavium) I can't really think how it could work in reality. Thinking a little further into it from a "reality" perspective the default option would have to be "Yes" anyway - for example someone is hit by a car in ArcCorp. They are lying on the ground with all sorts of fluids coming out of them and are unresponsive, so you offer to shoot them with your life gun, but they are incapable of responding. So you keep offering until they are dead. So the offer will need some conditions which if someone cannot say "Yes" they would then be administered to, so perhaps a timer which lasts 5 seconds then defaults to "Yes" or a damage monitor which automatically accepts treatment if hurt and then refuses any further medication... which would then defeat the point of having an OD limiting system in the first place when any further application of meds could simply have zero effect in the first place.

I'm not saying it's not a solution - I'm just saying with the intents and desires of this game to be a simulator/simulation and not just a game, a permissions system as a jigsaw piece isn't really the right shape for the hole in this particular puzzle. If it comes along of course I'll use it, but I think they'd rather go for something less "gamey"
 

Deroth

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A Yes/No consent would not really be "realistic" though in the sense that they are trying to make a Simulator of a future universe...

How would it physically work? What conditions would need to be met to have it as an option (Wear armour, wear an undersuit, just wear underpants?) and if its just wear underpants (the default), how is someone running around a landing zone with no clothes on not being able to be knocked out with a med-gun realistic just because they keep screaming "No!,No!,No!" whenever someone tries to intervene... and where would the permissions system stop once implemented? Just as an example: Outside of armistice zones, there is no concent system for taking damage from weapons, from taking damage from falling etc. Negative effects are forced upon you from everything which can harm you. If you make a permissions button for medical application, arguments will be put forward for all forms of harm to have permissions. (remember the long running complaints around the PvP slider topic)

Unless in 2951 they have worked out a way to make acceptance of incoming care stoppable, I don't know, by coding a Y/N response to your DNA or something which would disable the injection system (which is a little handwavium) I can't really think how it could work in reality. Thinking a little further into it from a "reality" perspective the default option would have to be "Yes" anyway - for example someone is hit by a car in ArcCorp. They are lying on the ground with all sorts of fluids coming out of them and are unresponsive, so you offer to shoot them with your life gun, but they are incapable of responding. So you keep offering until they are dead. So the offer will need some conditions which if someone cannot say "Yes" they would then be administered to, so perhaps a timer which lasts 5 seconds then defaults to "Yes" or a damage monitor which automatically accepts treatment if hurt and then refuses any further medication... which would then defeat the point of having an OD limiting system in the first place when any further application of meds could simply have zero effect in the first place.

I'm not saying it's not a solution - I'm just saying with the intents and desires of this game to be a simulator/simulation and not just a game, a permissions system as a jigsaw piece isn't really the right shape for the hole in this particular puzzle. If it comes along of course I'll use it, but I think they'd rather go for something less "gamey"
I've been think more about it, and think a mesh between your suggestion and mine could be interesting, as in it could be a function of the armor.
If you're wearing no armor or they try to use it on a location where you're not wearing any armor: No prompt
Certain flight suits: 10% chance of a prompt
For light armor: 25% chance
For medium armor: 50% chance
For heavy armor: 75% chance

There could also be special armors eventually added to loot boxes that'd further increase this for the parts of the body they cover...though this would require a bit of development work, so would be a future thing.
 
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Bambooza

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Though, to be able to police ourselves, we'd also need to be able to have a way to identify the other player, especially at more crowded locations, so CIG is eventually going to have to cave on nametags in FPS.
Not sure nametags are needed as a way for identification, perhaps ones hud can identify low rep players and hostile players like the ship hud currently does for hostile ships. This would tie into the reputation system and thus allow for not only public/sector reputation but also personal rep.
 

Talonsbane

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Here's an idea, if somebody injects you, regardless of intent, you get some sort of notification that they did. If you were injured, then clearly they were attempting to help you & you can have their name to thank them. If you were not, then you get the option of pressing charges against them. If in an area where the law is defunt, then you have their name to place a bounty on their head as well as place your claim against them in the reputation system. If a claim is placed, the system can check to see if it has merit based on the players health when injected & the criminal's reputation takes a hit for each time they get reported. If they rack up enough of these charges, they get banned from being able to purchase any sort of medical equipment in the future.
 

Thalstan

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I placed several suggestions on spectrum.

1) change it to a "no effect if not needed" type of situation. You heal someone but they don't need healing? The only thing you do is waste your medical tool's gel. No drug level increase in their system. - Drug level effects remain the same.
2) instead of a drunken effect, it becomes a reduced effectiveness effect. You're at 150 drug level, only get 50 percent effect from your next drug. At 190, you only get 10 percent effect. At 200, meds you administer have zero effect. at 100 percent and under, you get the full effect of the drug.
 

Sky Captain

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If criminal players can shoplift from player vendors, why not let criminal players also drug up players with stims so they can steal their ships. Its the same CrimeCitizen gameplay loop, more or less.
 

Talonsbane

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If criminal players can shoplift from player vendors, why not let criminal players also drug up players with stims so they can steal their ships. Its the same CrimeCitizen gameplay loop, more or less.
With the rise in criminal activities, CIG needs to raise the penalties exponentially against criminals that commit their illicit activities with intent. Then make it damn near impossible to escape prison to further discourage criminal behavior in lawful systems.
 

Richard Bong

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Not sure it's needed as the issue currently with it is the armistice zones prevent you as a player from reacting in the appropriate hostile way towards unwanted medical treatment as well as the server's current limitations preventing AI from also reacting. While it is a medical action that is harmful and as such, it should allow the correct reputation ding, security force interaction (its Stanton) as well as the player engaging in wanted self-defense. It also allows for emergent gameplay with the ability to drug and kidnap/secure a mark and many other possible solutions. While the armistice zones do serve a purpose in preventing the servers from deteriorating into a spawn camp bloodbath they also oftentimes get in the way of allowing players to police themselves. How many times have you had an unwanted stowaway that you could not remove from your ship? Or those who seem unable to control the trajectory of their ship and are crashing into everything... never mind standard test flying, but still helpful if you could help them vent some of that over-pressurization due to all the compression dents they keep putting in their ship.

All that to say it's generally better to put into place rules that allow the player population to police themselves than to try and implement hard and fast rule sets that greatly restrict gameplay along with not really preventing the undesirable actions as there is always a way. A reputation system has the potential to do just that allowing you to do pretty much anything once just like in RL but the consequences can be severe and hopefully in such will prevent most players from being overly abusive to each other in systems that are heavily patrolled like Stanton while giving players the freedom to venture out into the wilds at their own comfort levels.

If you want to see a great case study of hard rules being abused one only needs to look at the evolution of Eve in empire space. After all, it gets no better than gank squads who found they can use cheap ships to quickly blow up miners for the sole reason being they could.
Weapons free as soon as someone starts to administer treatment. If the treatment is appropiate you don't need to shoot them.
 
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