For $750 what Chris has promised hard-hitting, can go toe-to-toe with other capital ships,a mini carrier, fast with light armor but good shields.and take on a swarm of fighters. Mission: Patrol, fast attack.,SAR, Capital Ship for insurgents (pirates). On sale through Sunday. Recommend you wait until Sunday when more details will be released. Downside: it's a lot of money. Upside: Probably the cheapest Capital Ship.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTPfbz9QkA0&ab_channel=STLYoungblood
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8R30awPayw&ab_channel=minionsoldier
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSpdsGdiJg&ab_channel=Teller
Why you may want a Polaris
- Thread starter ratfeast
- Start date
If by simply being over 100meters makes it a capital ship its not the cheapest. The carrack, 890 jump, orion, the salvage one and if you wana count it the refuler all would be capital ships by size.
Cheapest combat focused capital ship yes. Lol simantics tho.
Cheapest combat focused capital ship yes. Lol simantics tho.
I believe some of the other ships, like the Reclaimed, were listed as having Capitol size modules. So I'm not sure if they count as a Cap ship or not.
But the Polaris is definitely a carrier. Come to think of it, all large ships have a small ship inside, but the Polaris has a full fighter, not a small utility vehicle.
They will count as cap ships in my heart.
With the turrets the Reclaimer has any small fighter that attacks it will end up being reclaimed! Possibly two or more as well depending on loadout. But a Polaris is definitely a good pirating ship in that case! 28 torpedoes launched in groups of four! I'd hand over my cargo...
Speedkills
Admiral
It terms of what CIG defines as "capital ship" this is the cheapest, but it's still a whole lot of $ to drop in one shot. Factor the amount of crew needed to effectively man it (7-13, max 24) and the operating costs... it's a lot to maintain. But it's not limited and over $1k like the Javelin and Idris, so if you have the resources (and already have a few other ships to fill different roles, particularly one to make credits), then go for it.
Keep in mind, you can buy a Super Hornet, Starfarer, Reliant, 350R, and even a Carrack and still not total $750.
Keep in mind, you can buy a Super Hornet, Starfarer, Reliant, 350R, and even a Carrack and still not total $750.
AntiSqueaker
Space Marshal
Just to play Devil's Advocate; Reasons you may not want a Polaris.
1) Price. Not just the fact that this is enough money for a weekend trip to the beach, theres a fuckton of ships you can get for 750 dollarydoos.
750 Bucks could buy you a Super Hornet, Gladiator, Retaliator, and Vanguard. That's a lot of firepower.
Or it could get you a Carrack and Terrapin with enough leftover for an M50.
Or in my case it gets me a Caterpillar, 2 Cutlass Blue, a Buccaneer, Herald, and 3 Dragonflies. That's a lot more versatile and easy to find a place to use it at than a Polaris.
2) Operational Costs. The Polaris is a big, expensive ship. Most likely big, expensive ships are going to be expensive to repair.
With possibly needing to buy
-28 S6 torpedoes
-Ammo to reload 10 (or more, depending on what size the automated chin turret guns are) S4 guns worth of ammo, and possibly your fighter/Gladiator buddy too.
-Fuel to power those 6 big engines
-Missiles for your 2 automated missile launchers
Even if you take no damage at all, you are likely going to need a lot of incoming money to offset the running costs. The upgrade and/or cargo insurance premiums are probably going to be pretty high too, that's a lot of equipment to replace.
3) Replacement time. It's going to suck, but eventually your Polaris will get wasted, or damaged beyond repair. While it's the smallest capital ship, it's still a capital ship and will have a vastly higher replacement time than a Cutlass or Hornet. CIG has said they are planning on making ship replacements exponentially higher for larger ships, and based upon supply and demand. So if you're 45th in line for a Polaris because a big war broke out between TEST and another big faction, but RSI can only pump out 15 a week for instance, wellllll you better crew up with someone else because it will be a while before you get your baby back.
4) Crew requirements. Polaris needs a good chunk of players to run effectively. With 7 Crew stations (5 on the bridge, 1 Engineering, 1 Torp Room), 5 turrets to man, and a Hornet/Sabre/Gladius/Gladiator pilot that is a large number of people to run a ship. It's easy to say "oh we have shittons of people in TEST so you'll have no problem finding people", but its another to find 7-13 people who want to crew your Polaris for however long you want to be in it for that play session. One person has to leave? Welp you're down to an NPC covering you then.
5) The Capital Ship Dilemma. Capital ships are big and expensive. You know what my dream is to find and pirate in the PU? A solo capship, because I can steal that shit. Capital ships are the linebacker of a team. They are the center of your formation tactically, if not literally. A capital ship without proper support will get death by a thousand papercuts, torpedoed, or boarding in short order. The Polaris is a combat powerhouse, but it is not a turret covered monster rape engine like the Javelin is.
The Polaris will be great as the flagship of a fleet, being a heavy escort for merchant vessels, leader of a scout fleet for a combined arms fleet of Idrisi/Javelins, and many many other uses. What it should not do is run solo. Even with a fighter you can carry you will likely need backup in lowsec and certainly nulsec space. Which tacks on to the crew requirement; not only do you need to find X players to help crew your ship, you need X ships to help screen and escort you.
This is not to say that you shouldn't buy a Polaris, but it's great upsides (great combat capability, great multi-crew and teamwork potential) are countered by some downsides that may not be for everyone.
For me, what made me decide to get a Polaris in game rather than melting down most of my ships was I would rather start with stuff I know I can find a place to use it. I can haul cargo in my Cat, use it for piracy missions, SAR, troop transport. I can fight in my Cutlass or Buccaneer, escort convoys, go raid rival mining or salvaging groups, do some light exploration. Do some EWAR, hacking, data-running in my Herald. Etc etc. Whereas with the Polaris, I can forsee instances where I would need to keep it in the hangar because I cannot afford to use it, or it's simply too big for that given purpose.
Just my 2 UEC homies.
1) Price. Not just the fact that this is enough money for a weekend trip to the beach, theres a fuckton of ships you can get for 750 dollarydoos.
750 Bucks could buy you a Super Hornet, Gladiator, Retaliator, and Vanguard. That's a lot of firepower.
Or it could get you a Carrack and Terrapin with enough leftover for an M50.
Or in my case it gets me a Caterpillar, 2 Cutlass Blue, a Buccaneer, Herald, and 3 Dragonflies. That's a lot more versatile and easy to find a place to use it at than a Polaris.
2) Operational Costs. The Polaris is a big, expensive ship. Most likely big, expensive ships are going to be expensive to repair.
With possibly needing to buy
-28 S6 torpedoes
-Ammo to reload 10 (or more, depending on what size the automated chin turret guns are) S4 guns worth of ammo, and possibly your fighter/Gladiator buddy too.
-Fuel to power those 6 big engines
-Missiles for your 2 automated missile launchers
Even if you take no damage at all, you are likely going to need a lot of incoming money to offset the running costs. The upgrade and/or cargo insurance premiums are probably going to be pretty high too, that's a lot of equipment to replace.
3) Replacement time. It's going to suck, but eventually your Polaris will get wasted, or damaged beyond repair. While it's the smallest capital ship, it's still a capital ship and will have a vastly higher replacement time than a Cutlass or Hornet. CIG has said they are planning on making ship replacements exponentially higher for larger ships, and based upon supply and demand. So if you're 45th in line for a Polaris because a big war broke out between TEST and another big faction, but RSI can only pump out 15 a week for instance, wellllll you better crew up with someone else because it will be a while before you get your baby back.
4) Crew requirements. Polaris needs a good chunk of players to run effectively. With 7 Crew stations (5 on the bridge, 1 Engineering, 1 Torp Room), 5 turrets to man, and a Hornet/Sabre/Gladius/Gladiator pilot that is a large number of people to run a ship. It's easy to say "oh we have shittons of people in TEST so you'll have no problem finding people", but its another to find 7-13 people who want to crew your Polaris for however long you want to be in it for that play session. One person has to leave? Welp you're down to an NPC covering you then.
5) The Capital Ship Dilemma. Capital ships are big and expensive. You know what my dream is to find and pirate in the PU? A solo capship, because I can steal that shit. Capital ships are the linebacker of a team. They are the center of your formation tactically, if not literally. A capital ship without proper support will get death by a thousand papercuts, torpedoed, or boarding in short order. The Polaris is a combat powerhouse, but it is not a turret covered monster rape engine like the Javelin is.
The Polaris will be great as the flagship of a fleet, being a heavy escort for merchant vessels, leader of a scout fleet for a combined arms fleet of Idrisi/Javelins, and many many other uses. What it should not do is run solo. Even with a fighter you can carry you will likely need backup in lowsec and certainly nulsec space. Which tacks on to the crew requirement; not only do you need to find X players to help crew your ship, you need X ships to help screen and escort you.
This is not to say that you shouldn't buy a Polaris, but it's great upsides (great combat capability, great multi-crew and teamwork potential) are countered by some downsides that may not be for everyone.
For me, what made me decide to get a Polaris in game rather than melting down most of my ships was I would rather start with stuff I know I can find a place to use it. I can haul cargo in my Cat, use it for piracy missions, SAR, troop transport. I can fight in my Cutlass or Buccaneer, escort convoys, go raid rival mining or salvaging groups, do some light exploration. Do some EWAR, hacking, data-running in my Herald. Etc etc. Whereas with the Polaris, I can forsee instances where I would need to keep it in the hangar because I cannot afford to use it, or it's simply too big for that given purpose.
Just my 2 UEC homies.
AstroGimp01
Space Marshal
I might be reading a bit into it, but I think the whole militia mobilization initiative 'could' suggest that there will maybe be funds, fuel or other assistance available from UEE, at least under certain conditions - this would make sense in that the operating expenses for ships in the Carrack/890 and up class might be prohibitive.
I know I've had sticker shock refueling and re-arming my Connie when out on Org credit grinds (acknowledging that a Connie Andromeda is not the best choice for Com Station missions) - multiply that by a factor of 8-10 for a Polaris (my guestimate) and a Polaris could easily be a Warchip that requires Org level resources to field (just crewing could be an issue).
That said, I am not even remotely sorry to pick one up - bad-ass Warchip.
The opportunity to set up Org outings and flying around with my TESTie bud's engaging in shenanigans will be enough reward.
'Gimp
I know I've had sticker shock refueling and re-arming my Connie when out on Org credit grinds (acknowledging that a Connie Andromeda is not the best choice for Com Station missions) - multiply that by a factor of 8-10 for a Polaris (my guestimate) and a Polaris could easily be a Warchip that requires Org level resources to field (just crewing could be an issue).
That said, I am not even remotely sorry to pick one up - bad-ass Warchip.
The opportunity to set up Org outings and flying around with my TESTie bud's engaging in shenanigans will be enough reward.
'Gimp
Another use for the Polaris is to run without a ship in your hangar, but to repair/refit fighters that are running escorts on cargo runs.
If you let other fighters do most of the interception, with light cover fire from your turrets, then your friends can run from the fight when they sustain moderate damage and they know there is a safe hangar to recoup in.
I'm sure a group of 10 fighters can take down a Polaris, since it takes ~3 for a Connie, but a Polaris with 5 SH or Sabre buddies is going to be a pain in the ass! Do you run at the Polaris, leaving yourself open to fighters, or do you go for the fighters while avoiding turret fire? A single fighter might be repaired during a fight, but not many more. However, if you run off or destroy all enemies then you could anchor near an asteroid to repair all fighters in case those pirates called for buddies to help and they'll arrive soon.
It may seem like a large crew requirement, but I don't think people will crew these to explore the Verse. I feel as if they're more likely to be used in planned escorts or attack missions. It's a lot easier for us to crew them with ILS and Security teams to help transport important cargo for RR than for the average Testie to want to wander around the Stanton system.
I'm happy with mine as I wanted a large niche ship like the 890J or the Connie Phoenix. Plus this one seems a lot more useful than those as I can loan it out or use for Test operations.
If you let other fighters do most of the interception, with light cover fire from your turrets, then your friends can run from the fight when they sustain moderate damage and they know there is a safe hangar to recoup in.
I'm sure a group of 10 fighters can take down a Polaris, since it takes ~3 for a Connie, but a Polaris with 5 SH or Sabre buddies is going to be a pain in the ass! Do you run at the Polaris, leaving yourself open to fighters, or do you go for the fighters while avoiding turret fire? A single fighter might be repaired during a fight, but not many more. However, if you run off or destroy all enemies then you could anchor near an asteroid to repair all fighters in case those pirates called for buddies to help and they'll arrive soon.
It may seem like a large crew requirement, but I don't think people will crew these to explore the Verse. I feel as if they're more likely to be used in planned escorts or attack missions. It's a lot easier for us to crew them with ILS and Security teams to help transport important cargo for RR than for the average Testie to want to wander around the Stanton system.
I'm happy with mine as I wanted a large niche ship like the 890J or the Connie Phoenix. Plus this one seems a lot more useful than those as I can loan it out or use for Test operations.
As experience with Rock Raiders shows, it's not hard to get friends to volunteer for crew positions. I don't think I would get any Capital ship to make a profit. But, if you are ever going to beat a mission like the attack on the Vanduul homeworld, then you'll wish you were in something big, Theyll be at least 100:1 Vanduul ships:
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
That is not the definition of a capital ship. Cap ships are combat ships, and none of the ships you mention are combat ships. Even though the Carrack utilizes some elements of military hardware, it is decidedly NOT a cap ship. For instance, the scan display on the bridge is not intended to track fleet engagements and multiple threats at once. It is intended to display the kinds of things exploration class ships scan for. It is important to note the difference. In the vid directly above at time index 0:57s you an catch a glimpse of the tactical display aboard the Polaris. That is real military display, that does what Carrack owners wished the Carrack could do.
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Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
I have seen a lot of silliness posted about the Polaris, and especially the nonsense over at YouTube attached to some of the vids there. So just in case some here have not understood, let me offer a few simple observations.
--Just as Grimbli is implying, the real benefit of the hangar bay is NOT in carrying ships, but in supporting them. You can fly a Sabre or SH off into no man's land only if you have a way to refuel it there, and most fighters do not have refueling probes like the Reliant, so you should not presume you can refuel them off a StarG. To operate a short range fighter you need to be able to land it, refuel it, repair damage, replace its missiles, and you need somewhere to sleep. You cannot operate short range craft out in the unknown reaches without a support ship and the Polaris is designed to support short range fighters. Not carry them! It can only carry 1, but it could support dozens.
--Military historians argue back and forth whether Corvettes are the least armored "ships of the line", meaning ships intended for large fleet engagements; or of they do not qualify as ships of the line at all. Most historians agree that whenever ships that qualify as Corvettes get involved in fleet engagements, they get themselves destroyed, because that is not what they are intended for. A conflict between a small handful of ships is not a fleet engagement. Fleet engagements are conflicts between two or more martial forces. Pirate forces are not considered martial in this sense.
--No ship is safe by itself, but Corvettes are typically deployed in smuggling, anti-smuggling, piracy, anti-piracy, search and rescue, mining and other solo activities. Their speed keeps them safe from larger ships so long as they are not fool enough to engage them. They can also make decent "FarTrader's" if they have a good cargo hold, or escort for a FarTrader (like the Banu Merchantman), or explorer, like the Carrack. If you have a small merchant fleet intended to go into the wilds, this is the ship to send to protect it, since it will allow you to fly short range fighters. If you intend to put together small merchant fleets, you should seek to add this and a squadron of real dog-fighters like the SH and Sabre to your fleet.
--Big military ships are expensive to run, but it is more expensive to lose all your stuff to pirates and raiders like Vanduul. If you fly in space with pirates and raiders you have to have support ships like this. The only alternative is to deploy long range fighters with your merchant fleet, and Vanguard cost even more than Polaris. They may cost less fuel to run, but they require more PC's and cash for the same bang. Three Vanguard are not equal to this Corvette, which makes the Corvette a cost effective alternative for the wary traveler.
People don't seem to get it. This is a great ship at a great price. Just the tactical display is worth the price, IMHO.
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Maybe your definition of a capital ship.
In eve online there were capital ships that were not combat focused or even capable. Capital mining vessels for one instance. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Capital_Ships_101
In the strict sence every dictionary calls a capital ship things like "largest" and "most important". Is the Carrack not a capital exploration ship? No its not a combat ship, but there can be capital ships that are not combat focused.
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
I don't know from Eve. I can tell you that CIG is not using your definition and neither do military historians. Supertankers are not Cap ships. They are merchant marine. Cap ships are military only. Best you get this correct right now or you will remain confused. CIG is not using the term in the way you suggest at all. According to CIG, the Carrack is NOT a cap ship, and neither is the 890 Jump, the Reclaimer, nor the StarG.
Speedkills
Admiral
I think "flagship" is more appropriate to describe whatever is the largest and most important in your fleet or the convoy. That would be the one holding the most valuable materials or providing necessary services in the Carrack's case.
Yet the carrack uses capital components? Where did they say that? I cant find a dev post anywhere on it. And this isnt military history. Its a game... your talking to a sailor so i knew already the real world definition. Im drawing from game experience here. If you classify sizes as capital like CIG did then something that uses capital components is a capital ship. Simple logic even a vulcan can be proud of.
And i dont know how you think im confused.
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
I think it is in the description of the Carrack that it uses Cap Ship components and is built by a military ship provider, so it is a little between; but it serves a civilian purpose to both the military and civilian owners.
Long story short, Capital ships are first and always combat ships. They are also larger than fighters and bombers. It's noteworthy that space games are mixing and matching naval and air forces. The main point though, is that despite their excellent stats, the 890 Jump, Star G and Reclaimer were not designed with fleet combat in mind, so they will not include things like damage control centers. They are not military ships. They are merchant marine that often find their way into the military.
Long story short, Capital ships are first and always combat ships. They are also larger than fighters and bombers. It's noteworthy that space games are mixing and matching naval and air forces. The main point though, is that despite their excellent stats, the 890 Jump, Star G and Reclaimer were not designed with fleet combat in mind, so they will not include things like damage control centers. They are not military ships. They are merchant marine that often find their way into the military.