Thoughts on Star Citizen and warfare: city/megacity combat

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Wolfy

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So, seeing some of the cities in Star Citizen has got me thinking, will we ever go to war in these areas?

Dense urban terrain fucking sucks, we all have seen this in the recent wars focused in Western-Asia and North Africa. My question is, with Star Citizen being so broad a project and already having plans for large cities, will we ever fight in them? Not even against other players, but say the Vanduul attack a city, can we defend it?

Obviously there are tactical challenges to be met in such an environment, a possible lack of reliable radar, maneuverability for air and ground vehicles, and air support may have issues in general with such a crowded environment, particularly if CIG involved a damage mechanics for buildings. Because as we all know, friendly fire is not very friendly.

First off I would like to point out that the Nova may very well be the best possible vehicle for urban environments. Not only does it provide an armored platform capable of AA and long range AG fire, but it is shielded to protect it from ambush tactics common in such environments. Why do I not think the Cyclone is a good option? As evidenced in our modern combat in urban environments, lightly armored vehicles can suffer critical damage in ambush attacks and with it's AA focused on missiles, which would not operate well in cluttered streets and a size one weapon on the gunner version it is not effective for this kind of combat. The only exception is possibly the RN, to assist both gunships over the combat zone as well as those on the ground with identifying enemy targets and providing live mapping of the city.

The ships I would choose to provide support are similarly choose for a lack of reliance on weapons that require locking capabilities and are maneuverable enough to track targets moving through cover in a city. Let's assume that the objective is not to level the city but to conduct a sustained campaign to hold the city or take the city from the enemy, preferably intact. (note: I am not including the Redeemer as it awaits rework, but I would assume it is going to be decent in urban ops due to it's focus as a gunship and small unit transport)

1. The Hornet series, particularly the Super Hornet and the F7C-R Hornet Tracker. Why these two? The Super Hornet is a damn brawler, able to soak up fights and loiter in combat for a sustained period, it also brings a turret to bear adding both extra firepower and increased AA capabilities, hopefully making sure the ground forces are not kept pinned by hostile aircraft or rooftop attackers. The Tracker, while not as capable with weapons, provides a way to keep communications and tactical mapping systems operational in a potentially electronically hostile environment. This is critical for clearing areas and properly watching the distribution of hostiles in a city. Because fuck it, might as well strap a TOC to the back of a fighter.

2. The Hercules Starlifter, both the M2 and A2 variants. Mobility of forces is paramount in urban warfare, as you need to respond quickly to enemy forces in a rapidly changing environment. The A2 is, in my opinion, a better choice, as it allows you to pack vehicular assets and still provides the capability of a gunship. This allows either an initial insertion point to be softened before the ground assets are deployed, or for a QRF to be put on standby in-case friendly forces need assistance in an area of the city unreachable by assets already on scene.

3. The Aurora. Has enough room for the units beer and dip stash. Enough said.

This is particularly made because I am super super bored and literally spent the last 4 days writing a paper on megacity combat and potential issues arising from a lack of current doctrine regarding it... so... yeah... and because I drink the day after 4th of July because Murica.
 

Op4ArcticFox

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For ground vehicles, keep in mind there are a number of rovers and other vehicles that have been teased or mentioned, but aren't anywhere near ready. Also things like the power-loader suits with guns on them. All of that is limited to the navigability of the actual ground though. If there are fallen structures or wreckages littering the ground/streets then it's really going to limit what anything that can't fly is capable of doing. Something I have been thinking about is how it seems odd the UEE doesn't have a ship thats purpose built for assaulting a planet (I don't mean like a Deathstar, I mean like an Amphibious Assault Ship used by modern day militaries). A ship that has the ability to quickly put troops on the ground and support them. Something with landing pods/ships to drop off company sized elements would make sense. As well as a hanger for gunships and support fighters. And then weapons systems like cruise missiles and rail gun turrets to provide direct and indirect fire support for the landing elements. At current the UEE would have to use it's Bengal and whatever the class is of the other strike carrier. Which while not implausible, expanding the mission profile of a ship too much leaves you not being great at any one thing.
Im getting off topic... sorry... anyways, city combat would rock. We will probably get to fight the Duul or other players on rimworlds cities. It seems like a thing that should be there. The overall logistics of it though aren't really something that can be well planed out given the knowledge we have thus far on combat, AI, and future ships/vehicles. Not saying don't theory-craft, its good stuff. Just don't get married to your ideas.
 

Printimus

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Even if a city could be attacked, that requires damage scales of buildings beyond what the CIG is probably willing to even think about right now. Not to mention the AI subsumption required to lead in a "war". It will probably remain small scale hit n runs for the next few years or so.
 

Wolfy

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For ground vehicles, keep in mind there are a number of rovers and other vehicles that have been teased or mentioned, but aren't anywhere near ready. Also things like the power-loader suits with guns on them. All of that is limited to the navigability of the actual ground though. If there are fallen structures or wreckages littering the ground/streets then it's really going to limit what anything that can't fly is capable of doing. Something I have been thinking about is how it seems odd the UEE doesn't have a ship thats purpose built for assaulting a planet (I don't mean like a Deathstar, I mean like an Amphibious Assault Ship used by modern day militaries). A ship that has the ability to quickly put troops on the ground and support them. Something with landing pods/ships to drop off company sized elements would make sense. As well as a hanger for gunships and support fighters. And then weapons systems like cruise missiles and rail gun turrets to provide direct and indirect fire support for the landing elements. At current the UEE would have to use it's Bengal and whatever the class is of the other strike carrier. Which while not implausible, expanding the mission profile of a ship too much leaves you not being great at any one thing.
Im getting off topic... sorry... anyways, city combat would rock. We will probably get to fight the Duul or other players on rimworlds cities. It seems like a thing that should be there. The overall logistics of it though aren't really something that can be well planed out given the knowledge we have thus far on combat, AI, and future ships/vehicles. Not saying don't theory-craft, its good stuff. Just don't get married to your ideas.
I specifically kept it to the two military vehicles we have 100% in the game or in concept right now. Same with the power-suits, they are not fully built out yet. But yeah, I doubt we will get that kind of city concept, I just thought it would be interesting to frame it in the Star Citizen universe as it certainly happens in lore.
 

Op4ArcticFox

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I specifically kept it to the two military vehicles we have 100% in the game or in concept right now. Same with the power-suits, they are not fully built out yet. But yeah, I doubt we will get that kind of city concept, I just thought it would be interesting to frame it in the Star Citizen universe as it certainly happens in lore.
Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was shitting on your post, that was not the intention. My people skills just suck.
I totally dig the idea. There is also the Ursa rover, which seems like a decently competent rover. And as mentioned above the Cutlass Black is basically a space huey. They even had that conversation in one of the RtVs (I think.. it was A show) where they talked about putting door guns on it just like helicopters of today. Which would be pretty rad for traversing pretty much any terrain. The city biom would certainly bring challenges and I do hope they include one for us to muck around in.
 

Wolfy

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Yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was shitting on your post, that was not the intention. My people skills just suck.
I totally dig the idea. There is also the Ursa rover, which seems like a decently competent rover. And as mentioned above the Cutlass Black is basically a space huey. They even had that conversation in one of the RtVs (I think.. it was A show) where they talked about putting door guns on it just like helicopters of today. Which would be pretty rad for traversing pretty much any terrain. The city biom would certainly bring challenges and I do hope they include one for us to muck around in.
Hey no problem man, not slinging shit around here, just talking haha. It's hard to get that across in text. And yeah, I discount the Ursa due to it's lack of firepower and armor compared to the Nova and it's vulnerable to tire damage right now. The cutlass just doesn't have the turreted firepower to be effective in a cluttered environment. The one ship I missed on was the Prowler, which may be useful but we will have to see if it gets decent 360 fire capabilities.
 

Wolfy

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SullyQuindarius

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I think the Ursa would make a great support vehicle for the Nova. It's tough enough for absorbing small-arms fire, and is great for supporting troops, which the Nova can't do as well (transporting, air refills if in a toxic environment, cover). So basically, you'd have convoys with a Nova in front to absorb damage and hit back hard, while the Ursas carry troops and lay down some covering fire. The troops and Ursas will be invaluable if the Nova gets ambushed by a group of soldiers on foot.
 

Beerjerker

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See, the thing about Huey's is they are famously bad in urban environments, due to a lack of armor, open design, and limited countermeasures. The cutlass black, while decent, has a lack of maneuverability and downward facing firepower.
Quickly deploying infantry will be always be key, unless you're resorting to nuking the site from orbit.
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The Cutty, being smaller, will have better options for parking than the Herc. Also smaller and can carry more troops than the Hoplite. Provided they don't mind standing, but when have you ever seen a player in a game choose to sit down and wait rather than blast their bazooka out any open door available? Maybe the Prowler will be better, but I doubt it will be smaller or as readily available, and the Redeemer is nearly a total unknown at the moment.

The Cutlass might have downsides and shortcomings, and will of course be in better position with Super Duper Hornets covering it from above and Nova Tonks covering it from below, but I expect it will be the go-to boat for fighting on the dirt, or pavement.
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I'd fully expect the Redeemer to usurp the Cutlass's throne in this regard, but who knows when that will be. Until then, GO TEAM CUTLASS!
 
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