Why LTI probably ultimately won't matter

Black Sunder

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We all have LTI ships yes? Or at least most of us and some of us have fleets of the things. Am I saying LTI is worthless with my title? No in the short term, yes in the long term for most ships. What do I mean by that? Take your favorite ship, it can be a fighter, transport, whatever, even a capital ship. Short term you get a replacement over and over and over again because that's what Insurance guarantees unless you start defrauding the system.

Now lets say a couple years goes by. CIG certainly isn't going to stop concepting ships and putting new ones out that fill niche voids or new ones to make the verse feel more alive. Its just not going to stop happening unless the game is going down. Something Chris has mentioned and it was a fan suggestion was to have new 'models' of ships that manufacturers would produce every so often just like we do in the real world. And he quite liked the idea enough to make a note of it to discuss with the team. We can even see this somewhat with the F7A Mark 2.

Ok so you get the newest bad ass ship from Anvil and its a new Super Hornet. But no LTI. :( Sad. But that's ok, you have the old Super Hornet and its LTI. But the new model performs a bit better. You have insurance for it of course because you're not stupid but it isn't LTI. It means you have to pay upkeep on the insurance and it can run out if you don't renew.

CIG may have let us have 'cheap' LTI ships as upgrade insurance tokens but nothing stops them from completely neutralizing that slight advantage by putting out newer models of ships in game that are slightly better than their old counterparts. We see this in real life all the time not only with cars but nearly everything that we see in our daily lives. People will abandon their old ships for the new ones because they feel they need to stay current and keep their old ones mothballed until they REALLY need to use them again.

However, I feel LTI does have significantly more worth on any ships that are >170 meters. The big ones. Capital combat ships especially since the UEE is probably not constantly decommissioning Javelins and Idris Frigates. Nor can civilians just pop over to the store and buy such a beast. The manufacturers are also probably not going to be producing new slightly different models every year because the military tends to like consistency.

Smaller ships? LTI is probably worthless above 1 or 2 year insurance. More limited ships? Worth more but not much. Rare ships like a Scythe or other # produced ships? Worth a lot but probably won't transfer if sold in game.

Next time you REALLY want LTI think hard on it and beyond the immediate time but to the future. Its probably not it in most cases.
 

supitza

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You're right. They've also mentioned the price of the insurance will be trivial, so I imagine that, after 1-2 weeks of playing when the game goes live, having enough money to afford insurance won't even be a problem.
Also, putting things into perspective, I don't imagine we'll want to use the same ship for years and years. We'll constantly upgrade and improve on our fleet and, say, 2 years into the game, we'll buy a new ship and the insurance cost will be so insignificant that we'll be laughing our asses of thinking of the times when we struggled to min-max and get LTI on all the ships we bought during development.
And still... if you get to pick between an LTI ship and a limited insurance one, the only difference being 2 mouse clicks, you're still going to get it.
 

Printimus

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I beg to differ on your point of view that people will abandon/stop flying their old ships. I know many many people in real life that dont like to upgrade to the newer cars and end up driving around their old truck because it still works just fine. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

LTI in my eyes is going to be an upkeep cost. Plus with combat ships have a higher chance of explodey explodey fall apart, they will value one less upkeep over having to pay for insurance every time.
 

supitza

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I beg to differ on your point of view that people will abandon/stop flying their old ships. I know many many people in real life that dont like to upgrade to the newer cars and end up driving around their old truck because it still works just fine. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

LTI in my eyes is going to be an upkeep cost. Plus with combat ships have a higher chance of explodey explodey fall apart, they will value one less upkeep over having to pay for insurance every time.
You have a point, but let me elaborate. If you fly a Cutlass, and 4 months later, Cutlass 2.0 comes out, with bigger guns and harder shields, you're going to get it. In real life, an old truck will still get you where you want to go, but in a game like Star Citizen, you'll need to be competitive. And UEC will be easier to come by than real world money, so there's one less incentive to hang on to old stuff.
Also, CR has stated that the price of the insurance will be small, comparable with the landing fees on different planets/stations and other taxes you'll have to pay regularly, so I don't imagine that 1k-10k UEC/month (I'm just throwing numbers around, don't quote me) will be too much to pay for the latest, competitive technology.

LTI only covers the base meaning you'll be paying insurance for any upgrades you carry. It's a nice perk, especially on larger ships that are already costly to maintain, but not the end of the world if you don't have it. If you forget to pay it, though, then you have permission to cry.
I hope they'll implement an "auto-renew" feature for something as important as the insurance on a ship. And IIRC, CR said that you'll be prompted really visibly and hard to get the insurance, just so they minimize the risk of some fellow with a Javelin running it into the sun and losing $2500.
 

Mich Angel

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Well all that sound good but you are forgeting one thing, any upgrade done to ship in game will not translate with your LTI they be gone and since I dont have to worrie about insurance fee I can put all that money in to new upgrades waiting to be installed on a reclamed LTI....

There are a lot of other things to, say you take a vacation and coming back your not so in the loop and forget to check your insurance, ship get destroyed and you are like oh shit! ... LTI would have saved that ... think you get where I am going there ar good and bad for either.
I for one have a short memory so for me LTI is perfect :smile: no worries in the world crash high and low and always have my ship there :D
 

Mich Angel

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I don't think CIG wants "losing ships forever" to be a thing, that's why I imagine that you'll need to try really hard to forget to pay your insurance.
Yea good point there, but it is not imposible to screw that up ;) Remember we're TESTies! :P
 

Black Sunder

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Well all that sound good but you are forgeting one thing, any upgrade done to ship in game will not translate with your LTI
LTI only covers the base meaning you'll be paying insurance for any upgrades you carry. It's a nice perk, especially on larger ships that are already costly to maintain, but not the end of the world if you don't have it. If you forget to pay it, though, then you have permission to cry.
Not forgotten but not relevant either when talking about stock hull replacement which is what LTi covers.
I beg to differ on your point of view that people will abandon/stop flying their old ships. I know many many people in real life that dont like to upgrade to the newer cars and end up driving around their old truck because it still works just fine. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

LTI in my eyes is going to be an upkeep cost. Plus with combat ships have a higher chance of explodey explodey fall apart, they will value one less upkeep over having to pay for insurance every time.
Maybe not abandon but not use as often unless they just really like 'that' ship. I hadn't considered the classy classic 'get er done' angle.
 

Printimus

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Not forgotten but not relevant either when talking about stock hull replacement which is what LTi covers.

Maybe not abandon but not use as often unless they just really like 'that' ship. I hadn't considered the classy classic 'get er done' angle.
My prospector will never stop being used cause i often like to play solo and i like mining.... Some ships are so purposefully built that I doubt they will make another ship just like it in the game.
 

Black Sunder

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My prospector will never stop being used cause i often like to play solo and i like mining.... Some ships are so purposefully built that I doubt they will make another ship just like it in the game.
What if the Prospector 2.0 had 2 lasers instead of one? :D
 

Mich Angel

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Not forgotten but not relevant either when talking about stock hull replacement which is what LTi covers.
Well you have seen the prices of buyable guns and upgrades right, not the rented stuff.
I for one hardly ever stick with the stock gear or guns..
So it will be extremly relevant for anyone playing like I do when it come to exchangable gears..

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 

Black Sunder

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Well you have seen the prices of buyable guns and upgrades right, not the rented stuff.
I for one hardly ever stick with the stock gear or guns..
So it will be extremly relevant for anyone playing like I do when it come to exchangable gears..

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I've seen and own a few for my super hornet :( But I'd rather pay for those than a whole new hull.
 

Mich Angel

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I've seen and own a few for my super hornet :( But I'd rather pay for those than a whole new hull.
Yeah that's what i mean, if I have a LTI on ships, the insurance money could go for all the upgrades and not the ship.
Hence having a LTI ship is saving money in the long run, to be able to put insurance money to have a bought backup upgrades in storage.
That you can put in use immediately not having to wait for the insurance upgrades to arrive..
When they do you put them in storage for next mishap..

:D
 

MikeNificent

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I'm with the Rock Boss in that there will be little to no advantage from LTI for a couple reasons.

1: Let's think about how insurance works. You get a policy. You pay monthly. You pay a deductible when you submit a claim. Let's say you have a lifetime policy. What do you save? Well, you still have to make your payments. You still have to pay a deductible when you make a claim. You don't have to renew, which is convenient. You fight the cost of inflation IF your policy is not subject to increase with inflation. Ultimately, it's a convenience thing. You can put one insurance card in your glove box and never have to worry about not having it there when you get pulled over. Inflation issue aside, there will very likely not be any monetary difference between LTI and regular insurance.

2: CIG is a business. I believe that in true CR fashion, the LTI will come out to mean next to nothing, as old backers are important to the development, but new backers are important to the future. There will always be a way to get something similar (cost-wise) for the new backers, because you have to get new money into the game to have any sort of lasting business model. If you tell me "you can't ever get to where he is, because he's been on the bandwagon for longer," I will tell you to go climb a tree and spend my money elsewhere. Like any other MMO, there will not likely be anything beyond cosmetic/convenience differences between the people who were here first and those that came later. Status symbols, titles, and shiny objects will very likely be the limit of what we "get" for our money, other than the "ships" we have already "purchased" with our pledges of support for the project.

All of that said, I am still going to get LTI for as many of my ships as I can before release. Why? Math: Forever > not forever. If I can get forever for the same cost as not forever, I'm going to get forever every time.
 

Thugari

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Plus the fact that the ships may be LTI, but majority of you weapons and ship parts will not be. to me that could actually be the biggest credit dump, the upkeep.
 

Mich Angel

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I'm with the Rock Boss in that there will be little to no advantage from LTI for a couple reasons.

1: Let's think about how insurance works. You get a policy. You pay monthly. You pay a deductible when you submit a claim. Let's say you have a lifetime policy. What do you save? Well, you still have to make your payments. You still have to pay a deductible when you make a claim. You don't have to renew, which is convenient. You fight the cost of inflation IF your policy is not subject to increase with inflation. Ultimately, it's a convenience thing. You can put one insurance card in your glove box and never have to worry about not having it there when you get pulled over. Inflation issue aside, there will very likely not be any monetary difference between LTI and regular insurance.

2: CIG is a business. I believe that in true CR fashion, the LTI will come out to mean next to nothing, as old backers are important to the development, but new backers are important to the future. There will always be a way to get something similar (cost-wise) for the new backers, because you have to get new money into the game to have any sort of lasting business model. If you tell me "you can't ever get to where he is, because he's been on the bandwagon for longer," I will tell you to go climb a tree and spend my money elsewhere. Like any other MMO, there will not likely be anything beyond cosmetic/convenience differences between the people who were here first and those that came later. Status symbols, titles, and shiny objects will very likely be the limit of what we "get" for our money, other than the "ships" we have already "purchased" with our pledges of support for the project.

All of that said, I am still going to get LTI for as many of my ships as I can before release. Why? Math: Forever > not forever. If I can get forever for the same cost as not forever, I'm going to get forever every time.

well you are wrong about a couple things...:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::beers::beer:

Quote RSI homepage LTI.. and standard Hull insurance

LTI is intended to make this more convenient for our early backers, not to unbalance the game in any way. Insurance does not negate the cost of repairing, rearming or docking your ship. It protects your hull in its current condition and does not allow you to explode a beaten up ship to exchange for a fresh one at no cost.

  • Lifetime Insurance *
    • Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
    • Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
    • Effective indefinitely with no additional in-game fee. <---- This part is especially interesting ;)

  • Standard Hull Insurance *
    • Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
    • Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
    • Effective for a set period of time: currently one, three or six months.
    • Must be renewed with in-game credits once expired.
* Insurance claims may be denied in cases of proven fraud.


It pays to read the fine print ;)
Could say that this parts are... looking alot like a Catch-22

- does not allow you to explode a beaten up ship to exchange for a fresh one at no cost.
--
and this
--
- Effective indefinitely with no additional in-game fee.

I do agree 100% with this :smile:
All of that said, I am still going to get LTI for as many of my ships as I can before release. Why? Math: Forever > not forever. If I can get forever for the same cost as not forever, I'm going to get forever every time.
 
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