NPC crew: Slave labor or Daddy's little helpers?

How will you treat your crew?

  • It's so fun watching them grow up *tear*

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • Red shirts

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • Who the hell can afford crew?

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • It's a chewbacca/solo kinda relationship

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Total voters
    25

Han Burgundy

Space Marshal
Jan 15, 2016
2,224
9,737
2,900
RSI Handle
Han-Burgundy
With yesterday's ATV, we learned a little bit more about what to expect from AI and NPC crew members. It seems that they are putting a lot of thought into NPC skill and the progression of that skill as you use them. Will this lead TESTies to care more for their crew? Or do you plan to keep your emotional distance by dressing your crew in red shirts?

Discuss...
 

Han Burgundy

Space Marshal
Jan 15, 2016
2,224
9,737
2,900
RSI Handle
Han-Burgundy
Not much opinion about npc crews yet. But all I want is robot/bot something like Marvin from hitchhikers guide to galaxy, mumbling around how awful he's day has-been or just how I suck at dogfighting :grin:
Having a crewmember that heckles you while you're flying would be amazing. The feeling of finally getting fed up and kicking their ass out of the airlock onto a deadly planet will be all the more satisfying....
 

FluffyVonRage

Space Marshal
Donor
Jan 1, 2015
591
2,083
2,650
RSI Handle
Palegrave
Guess it depends on the size of your ship - connie pilots are gonna only have a couple of people on deck, so they're naturally gonna be a more valuable resource once you've left port.

Idris commanders, not so much.
 

Shadow Reaper

Space Marshal
Jun 3, 2016
5,412
15,020
2,975
RSI Handle
Shadow Reaper
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMD-t1OjGys


It definitely sounds to me they are striving for the kinds of functionality I have been hoping for. They specifically mentioned at time index 18:25 on, they are looking at fire teams being able to act like teams, with some NPC's taking cover and providing cover fire while others advance. They did not answer the question of whether PC controlled NPCs will come with the ability to assign these roles. Can you give specific instruction to an NPC marine to hold a position and have him automatically open a shield and slip behind a hall corner and tell others to advance in waves where they can target high and low? Can they go prone and have their comrades fire over them to hit Vanduul with waves of concentrated fire?

One thing is certain--Franchesco is committed to building AI where the NPC's do what makes sense. They are not going to stand in the open in a firefight, so at times it may be difficult in a fight to tell which are PCs and which are NPCs. That is COOL!

It is a key observation to note what Tony is saying at time index 28m, that there is no limit to how large a ship you can command with all AI crew. There is no doubt in my mind that wealthy players will be flying Javelins and Bengals essentially alone, and inviting their friends to come aboard and take any position they like. Some players will be spending thousands of dollars a month to play this way, and if they are playing pirates, that will directly affect everyone in the game. You should count on this. Cooperation and collaboration is still going to be the most effective and powerful form of play, since AI is less effective than real players, but wealthy players who want to fly a Javelin up your ass will be able to do that.

I was a Fleet Commander at Star Wars Combine for the Ailon Nova Guard, and later a Battle Group Commander and a Task Force Commander for The Wraiths. My primary job in both organizations was training thousands of NPCs to fight. Based upon that experience, and what has been said about SCs intentions, I think people are going to want to have, keep and train as many NPCs as they can reasonably afford. You can steal ships, but you have to pay for NPCs. Without the NPCs, you will be extremely limited as to what you can do, even what you can reasonably fly. It seems to me you really will want several pilots flying escort over your StarG when you go on that collection run, and several marine NPCs aboard in the event you are boarded. You can steal the StarG, but you have to pay the NPCs. You can get friends to collaborate with you, but you will need to pay them for their time and it seems to me obvious, NPCs will require less pay and stake in the equity of an op, than players will want.

No affirmation that NPCs will grow in their skill abilities, but I hope that is true. If it is, managing NPCs will all by itself become a true art form. If you can recruit a level 1 gunner for your Sentinel and turn him into a level 5 gunner by flying anti-pirate missions, people are going to do this. Right now I am guessing this is the way SC is headed. For some it is going to be a magnificent and expensive hobby. Regardless of how you spend though, the most rewarding parts of the game are going to be based upon player to player relationships and interactions. Paying big bucks is not going to give a better experience, IMHO.
 

Han Burgundy

Space Marshal
Jan 15, 2016
2,224
9,737
2,900
RSI Handle
Han-Burgundy
An interesting extension on your point about NPCs not standing out in the open during a gunfight; I believe that the existence of this goal for the AI team will lead to a whole new form of self-preservation instincts and on-the-fly animation built into the NPCs that is derived mainly from their pathfinding tech. Subsumption will only go as far as leading the character through the thought process of; "Oh shit, I'm being shot at. My goal at this instant should be to make myself safe."

It is truly the pathfinding tech that will allow the NPC to observe the world around itself and react appropriately (According to that NPC's training and ability) Is the NPC in question a lowly engineer, or is he a badass marine? When the bullets start flying, the engineer may choose to flee through a crawlspace to hide, while the marine will identify a piece of cargo up ahead that will provide good cover to return fire from (Both actions already having a mo-capped animation), but believably traversing over to that point where the animation is to begin is the hard part. For that "personality based response", it will be imperative that the AI can identify these options in the space around them and differentiate between them to choose the appropriate response for their mindset.

All of this has to be done dynamically with nothing pre-canned into certain object's properties that define it as "Cover object 1" Cover object 2, low" and so on. In games where this approach is taken, the limitations are painfully obvious. Remember trying to breach that door on the first mission of COD 4? If you stand in the wrong location of the stack, an NPC will glitch the hell out and pin you in place because it doesn't know how to do anything other than "stack position #2". Nothing pulls you out of immersion quite like worthless idiot teammates who are incapable of adaptation. Part of what would make this believable and engaging for Players is the possibility for NPCs to "improvise" and even make mistakes if they don't know what the hell they're doing (Fish out of water).

Basically what I'm saying is; Due to the nature of how they seem to be planning the AI to utilize a huge range of pre-recorded animations, it makes sense that their roadblock really has nothing to do with the buzzword that "subsumption" has become. Subsumption is the AI's decision making process, pathfinding is how that NPC will carry out those decisions. Getting an NPC to realize that they are in danger is the easy part. Getting them to respond to said stimulus (using a range of beautifully mo-capped animations) and making it look smooth and non-jittery is the golden goose they are chasing now. How do we fill the gaps between pre-recorded and skeleton-driven animations smoothly? That is something that I'm sure keeps Tony Z awake at night.

(Source: Degree in working with Robotics and automated systems + wild and unsubstantiated speculation)
 

maynard

Space Marshal
May 20, 2014
5,146
20,422
2,995
RSI Handle
mgk
I predict there will be a lot of buyers' remorse from people who bought multicrew ships.

It sounds like there will be ongoing crew expenses whether you are using your big ships or not, which will be a drag on profits. I don't want to have to grind with my multicrew ship in order to be able to keep it..

IMO the best use case is org owned multicrew ships for when we want social, collaborative gameplay. That way we can spread out the expense and max out the utilization of our big ships.

In addition to issuing Auroras to one and all, TEST needs a multicrew ship buyback program. Benevolent Socialist Dictatorship FTW!
 

Blind Owl

Hallucinogenic Owl
Donor
Nov 27, 2015
20,913
73,955
3,160
RSI Handle
BlindOwl
I took Chewy/Solo. I haven't watched the video yet, as I'm trying to conserve what's left of my data, so I may be off on some of my thoughts here. But I have y'all too correct me.

So I only have a couple real multicrew ships, the Cat and the Carrack. I have kept myself 4 other soloable ships, or ships that can be run with a couple crew. I believe I'll stay with 1, maybe 2 NPCs, and develop them, develop a rapport with them, level them up, etc (if that's what indeed happens).

I believe that even players who own large ships will need to work up a financial base in game (unless they have just kept buying UEC). I pray this to be true, so most people can start the game on relatively equal footing.

As such, I personally intend to use those smaller ships to work my way up to the point where it's financially viable to run the larger ones.

TLDR: Start with a couple NPCs, Solo/Chewy them, make them part of my crew. Develop them, use them to make more money to acquire more NPCs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Narcotics

Narcotics

Space Marshal
Jan 28, 2017
14
36
2,210
RSI Handle
ItsNarcotics
TLDR: Start with a couple NPCs, Solo/Chewy them, make them part of my crew. Develop them, use them to make more money to acquire more NPCs.
Bruh, good idea! I myself will try and use my BMM right away. Is that a financial suicide because of the costs of operating a larger ship from the start? We'll see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blind Owl
Forgot your password?