[VIDEO] CIG wins small claims court case, no refund for you!

[Montoya]

Everyone who believes and really wants to have ONLY donated to the development of Star Citizen.
Gift me all your ship packages and ships... and you will then have truly donated to the development of this amazing game.

Thats why I said in my video that I did not "donate".

I gave them a pledge, they gave me a jpg and the promise of a game.

The big problem CIG is running into here is that the promises they made were broken.

There are those of us that are fine with sticking it out and waiting until they produce what we wanted, but there are others like our friend Mr Lord who have said fuck it and want out.

 

[DirectorGunner]

I am in it, to win it! @Pledge Refunders

 

[FZD]

In Finnish consumer protection law (for example. I'm sure rest of EU is pretty much the same), the 14 days start from receiving the final shipment.
I am of the opinion that, with pre-orders, pledge purchases, pre-alpha steam games, etc. the final shipment should be the launch of the game.

Especially when you're doing the purchase based on a promised vision or a roadmap (Like, how many of us pledged for Star Citizen as it was way back when? Nobody, we pledged because we fully expect to receive a masterpiece later on.)

 

[BUTUZ]

My friend, these two words are oxymorons in context of the same subject.

No it is a gift from me to them, but Chris Roberts offered to "donate" a gift in return. He gifted me Ship JPGs!! lots of them!!! :smile:

(witch judging by the speed my Carrack and BMM are coming on, will always be JPGs)

It's a bit like donating $10 to the Red Cross in a shop and them giving you a nice badge to wear. I gave them a gift, they gave me a gift in return! The value of my gift was considerable, the value of their gift was not considerable.

A gift can become an investment however, if it ends up becoming more valuable than it was when it was gifted...….

 

[Radegast74]

No it is a gift from me to them, but Chris Roberts offered to "donate" a gift in return. He gifted me Ship JPGs!! lots of them!!! :smile:

(witch judging by the speed my Carrack and BMM are coming on, will always be JPGs)

It's a bit like donating $10 to the Red Cross in a shop and them giving you a nice badge to wear. I gave them a gift, they gave me a gift in return! The value of my gift was considerable, the value of their gift was not considerable.

A gift can become an investment however, if it ends up becoming more valuable than it was when it was gifted...….

I agree!

I think the whole bit about "donation" is a bit of legal theory...I don't think the courts have any definition of "crowd-funded pledge." The nearest thing is a "donation" since we are willingly giving CIG money and really giving up any claim to it, other than we get a (playable) game (at some point in the future).

I don't think the court gives the proverbial "rat's ass" about how big your ship is in the 'verse, in *reality* all you are getting is a game (value -- about $60). So, CIG seems to be arguing that any amount over a base pledge (which gets you a game) is a donation (since $4000 or whatever just gets you a game, as well).

However, the more we put into the game, the better it will turn out overall, so in that way, I also consider it an investment.

 

[Firen]

In Finnish consumer protection law (for example. I'm sure rest of EU is pretty much the same), the 14 days start from receiving the final shipment.

In france it work for 7 days and only on actualy buying. in the case of starcitizen, we pledge/donate money.

My father is donating to the cancer curating research every year since my grand parents died. the research is promising to find a cure for the donation. Now my father started founding in 1994 and i dont think he will be able to get a refund because hesuddently start thinking that the project doesnt advance the way he want it.
He just keep giving money everyyear in hope they finish what they promised.

It s the same deal with star citizen and if a judge allow someone who donated to star citizen a refund then that could créate a jurisprudence allowing all the pple who have donated money to get a refund based on the fact they no longer wish to support the project.

That s why the judge who operated the trial didnt had any options to begin with.

 

[FZD]

My father is donating to the cancer curating research every year since my grand parents died. the research is promising to find a cure for the donation. Now my father started founding in 1994 and i dont think he will be able to get a refund because hesuddently start thinking that the project doesnt advance the way he want it.

What your dad is doing is an actual donation tho.
Again, I don't know about France, but in Finland the law defines things such as donating to cancer research separately from pre-purchasing a game. One of the main differences would be that to collect donations, you need a permit and your cause must be for common-good. Y'know, like cancer research.

Anyhow, I'm not talking about star citizen or the case specifically, but generally my opinion about pre-purchases etc.

 

[Ken Scrannage]

Well, just to add my 2 cents, I see backing a kickstarter project as a contract between me and ??? where I help fund the project's release. People that ask for refunds are selfish. I totally agree that an arbitrator can be used to get alternate perks and bling for undelivered "goal" promises. But the more people that get "funding" money back, the more likely that CIG won't be able to deliver their ultimate promise... the game.
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If the game loses funding and gets shelved, shouldn't the backers that promised to fund (but cut and run) be responsible to pay the rest of us back what we lost?
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No. CIG is responsible for refunds (but not required) if the game dries up for ANY reason. Therefore, CIG should not give ANY refunds while they are still realistically progressing. If for no other reason than to protect the real backers investment.
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The spirit of crowd-funding has always been to give us the opportunity to be part of creating something great. The perks were a bonus as well as a showcase of what the game was going to deliver.