PTU is up after a 2 day break. Testing 3.2.1 now, or Tuesday and yesterday it was... I haven't checked today. Build was 808574
Thoughts on 3.2 and CONCERNE (so it's a rant ofc)
- Thread starter Lorddarthvik
- Start date
It honestly wouldn't matter either way from a pure data collection perspective. The majority will play the PU, so that's where the largest set of data will reside.
CIG really needs to rethink how they approach core game mechanic patches. Give access to all so you have the largest set of data possible. And hey, they might sell a few more ships in the process too!
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They actually tried this after the release of 3.0, but it was unstable... and the cacophony of feedback noise was deafening. They did all sorts of changes in the PU build. Then when 3.1 came along they did the changes in the PTU instead, and then rolled to PU when they achieved some semblance of stabilization. From a PR perspective this is working better. Think of it like this:
- PTU is development integration testing (game mechanics,etc)
- PU is QA testing (i.e. load test, stress test etc).
You don't get all of the possible ships in PU because that's how they make their $$ right now. Like it or lump it I guess. I actually like it that way, I can actually see what my fleet's going to look like (other than loaners which don't actually fill the role - like the loaner for the Pioneer is the Caterpillar... what's that?).
I also have a little concern about burnout, like @Montoya said, so what I do is go into either the PU or PTU only 2 or 3 times/week right now. Besides, I have a day job.
No one is promoting the free and unlimited use of all ships in the PU here.
The discussion is simply about the ability for the majority of people to test any given mechanic in game, to see if it works, how it works, and whether it is of interest to them. I think that's a pretty reasonable idea, which also provides the most efficient ability to gather valuable data for continued development.
I'm not hating on CIG here, I just think they've missed the mark on this. Either you want people to jump in, test, and provide feedback or you don't. And if you do ... asking people to spend $155 to test a game mechanic is borderline insanity. Not only does it have the potential to sour opinion, but it limits the amount of data gathering you can do on the development side.
The world continue to revolve either way. I just don't think the optics look all that great. And when some of the oldest/biggest SC "contributors" are saying the same thing, that's a potential problem.
The discussion is simply about the ability for the majority of people to test any given mechanic in game, to see if it works, how it works, and whether it is of interest to them. I think that's a pretty reasonable idea, which also provides the most efficient ability to gather valuable data for continued development.
I'm not hating on CIG here, I just think they've missed the mark on this. Either you want people to jump in, test, and provide feedback or you don't. And if you do ... asking people to spend $155 to test a game mechanic is borderline insanity. Not only does it have the potential to sour opinion, but it limits the amount of data gathering you can do on the development side.
The world continue to revolve either way. I just don't think the optics look all that great. And when some of the oldest/biggest SC "contributors" are saying the same thing, that's a potential problem.
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Not trying to disagree with you, just explaining what CIG was thinking. You're right, it's a little insane to expect people to pay that kind of money to do them a favor. But quite honestly, their methods and thinking are very similar to what we do in enterprise software development too. I've even seen companies offer licenses to the general public (for a fee) while software is in development. The only benefit to the user is, you get to be an early adopter. Whether or not it's a good idea, it's kind of a widespread software development industry thing.
That's why I feel it's important to voice concerns like this. Otherwise, no changes will be made.
I like everyone else want to see CIG succeed and make something truly special. But I'm not going to have some kind of "they can do no wrong" fanboy attitude either. My hope is that they rethink their current strategy when it comes to core mechanic releases.
Let's not "EA" our way through development, it isn't even necessary. In fact I think it's counterproductive.
I like everyone else want to see CIG succeed and make something truly special. But I'm not going to have some kind of "they can do no wrong" fanboy attitude either. My hope is that they rethink their current strategy when it comes to core mechanic releases.
Let's not "EA" our way through development, it isn't even necessary. In fact I think it's counterproductive.
ThunderKraken
Space Marshal
Whole ground game is trash. Anything where your physically outside or not using a space ship is terrible. I last played this about 2 years ago when it was 2.4 or something and the amount of progress they have made is atrocious. Game is borked it's going to take another 5 years till this is done.
@Montoya Mmm, nice kuglóf you got there!
Dear Leader, You addressing this humble Test Servant with your wise words is ... humbling! But beware! While reading through your answers, the vague notion came to me, that if someone uninformed and uninitiated saw it, they might end up accusing you of... omg, I daren't even say it.... Fanboyism!
:joy::joy::joy:
Anyways, I do sincerely hope that my concerns end up as baseless and irrational.
That said...
Sorry Boss, you're my victim this time, but I need to get this out of my system, otherwise I might end up asking for a refund before 4.5 comes out :D Here we go again...:
ESP not working
yep, that explains it, thanks! I assumed it was fixed cos they said in ATV that they did fix it kinda, but I couldn't remember if it made it in to the patch or not.
"...unique definition of P2W..."
I don't think that "having an advantage over your fellow players for paying more" is a unique definition of P2W.
I'm not arguing that the "game will be P2W"! I'm arguing that in this current state, the way things are arranged and working and whatnot, it kind of is.
What is a Win in SC? Whatever you want it to be! For me, it includes completing PVE missions that involve some space combat, standing a chance of at least running away in PVP, doing cargo runs at a rate that makes it possible to buy that fancy armor with the cape before the next patch comes out and wipes everything... Yes I can try to do all these in a starter Aurora, but do I stand a chance of doing them? No. Not much really.
Why? because obviously this is an Alpha and stuff is unbalanced, broken, and we are limited to the ships we bought with real money! What would make me able to have these Wins at this very moment, with the current state of mechanics? By Paying Real Money. Could this look like or make someone feel like it's P2W? I think Yes.
That is all I meant by it.
Also, easy solution: allow REC rentals. REC can be earned and exchanged to equipment and ships to earn REC faster, and to earn enough for the rental you want. Progression. No extra payments needed.
It was fine in 2.x when that worked.
And as I said in my OP, I Know it won't be Pay2Win! But it kinda Looks like that at the current state.
I think CiG should be more careful about this. They get enough shit from the outside already, they don't need more shit from inside.
Also, I know that the "content" in the patches is behind a paywall of ships because they need to make money on ship sales, they are a company of 500 and need to pay salaries and rent and yada yada.. Fair enough!!
If this leads to me, the player with the base package, being unable to enjoy the game the same way as others can, that doesn't mean that I have to be always happy about the way they do it though, right?
Imagine how this looks to someone who just bought the shiny new 35 bucks starter pack we SC fans keep shilling (yes I do that when my friends ask me how much it costs), get's loaded into the game for the first time, excited that they can finally play what everyone was talking about, imagines how awesome piracy and mining and all that will be like.... and gets slapped in the face by the reality of what I described.
This is why you, and a lot of us, tell our friends to stay away for now. But if that person doesn't have friends like us, just hears about the game kinda working, kinda cheap to get into, and so on... I have friends like those, but they got lucky and remembered to ask me before clicking the buy button on that aurora pack.
All in all, not a good strategy on CIGs end, imho.
Anyways, as I said, to me this will only be cause for concern until we get the chance to rent or buy ships in-game, which might be as soon as 3.3. Than I can only hope that we won't get fully wiped every 4-5 days so we can actually get the slightest impression of what progression will be like. Give us 2 weeks at least please :joy:
Staying away:
I'm not staying away as much as I should because
A: I still love how the game looks and feels, and also we are supposed to be Testing right?, and B: I'm interested in what I'm going to get in the end as a playable game. I think that being interested in what you will be getting out of your "investment" ,and I only call it an "investment" because I couldn't find a better word for it, is only natural. Lets face it, when ppl put down their money, I think it perfectly fair to assume that some of them will expect that something, whatever it might be, will be coming out of it.
It's not like I'm going to ask for a refund, getting a fully acted and beautiful and vast single player space sim like WingCommander for 60bucks, when there were absolutely zero such games on the market for the last 10 years is still a bargain!
Fair point on the AI. I found that AC is a good indicator of progress though, it felt better and better with the patches. Will check it out later, I just didn't have the time yet. mostly because of typing this instead lol...
"I predict space combat will be dumbed down big time! This game needs to appeal to the masses, not the 35 elite dogfighters out there that insist the game must be hard!"
Those predicitons might come true, I hope they don't.
You see, I don't want this to be another game that appeals to the masses. Am I bad person for wanting something that is not like every other game, and thus appeals to me instead of those "masses" that might not even care about it anyways?
I don't want this to be "hard", as in hard like WC3 and 4 was for example. See how I was bitching about the AI in my op?
I want it to have Depth, and to require some effort on the part of the player. The current level is fine! With power management, it got even more depth, that's great!
I don't want space combat to be dumbed down to the mass appeal of point and click. There are literally thousands of those kind of games already! As you said, there are lots of great games out there to play instead of SC! And I'm perfectly fine with anyone who doesn't want to put in the effort just staying away and playing their favorite way more accessible games! That doesn't mean I have to like that CIG is slowly changing their tune from "we want a complex game with intricate deep game mechanics" to being just another one of those thousands of "more accessible" games.
"Anybody here that is not capable of accepting the fact that this game might be dumbed down a lot should go sell their stuff on the grey market right now!"
'ka tschrungggggg' Aaand that's the sound of the grey market doing a Bitcoin. As in at least quarter of the player base gone :joy::joy:
But that doesn't matter, cos surely ppl who never cared for space games will flock in for the simple gameplay that makes playing farmville look like a raelly complex game! /s
So, the game should be dumbed down to be accessible to the masses, but it should also alienate the ppl that backed it for the vision of a non-dumbed-down game they were sold on in the beginning. Shouting "make it inclusive!!!" while dividing it way more by telling ppl to fuck off if they don't like this new more "progressive" direction. Wow, where have I seen this before...
I don't think CiG will go this far with it though. It's not like they are a secret undercover branch of EA... :wink:
It's not like a can't accept it, or understand why. It's just not what I want out of this, so I'm kinda not happy about it, that's all.
"At the end of the day this is Chris Roberts vision, not mine, not yours. "
CR had a vision, and I backed because he sold me, and you, and quite a few other ppl, on his vision.
He didn't sell us on thin air, or Juiceros, or other nonsense. He described his vision through numerous videos and interviews, and sold us on That vision. I think it's fair to except that he tries to keep to what he sold us on. How much one expects him to hold to that, is personal preference ofc.
Now this vision is "evolving" all the time, which is fine, just this time around I'm not happy with those changes. Maybe next week he will wake up with another change in his vision, and it will match the vision he sold me on years ago more than it does today. I'll wait and see, but because I have the chance to be part of it, I also get the chance to voice my likes and dislikes about these changes. That's where open development leads. Want to keep making changes to your vision without getting called out on it, and having to listen to ppl crying about it, just shut those doors and windows, and problem solved.
Also, what I was going on about is that we as the backers, do seem to have some input into this "vision", into how things turn out to be, and that back-and-forth does matter. It might influence that vision in directions some might not expect.
At least it seems like we do...? How much of that actually happens, I can't tell. Maybe those who are active on the CIG forums can.
"...or you can come in right now with your own preconcieved notions of what you believe this game should be like..."
Not all of us just have baseless preconceived notions. Some of us have pretty well informed notions, or at least we are led to believe that we do! We are told a on an almost daily basis what this game should be like! Again, open development. It means that they get to tell us how it should be, and we get to react to that. Note that I don't think it means that they should listen to our reactions..
I'm an original backer. I've been following almost all the official forum posts and youtube videos of interviews and ATVs and the rest since the very first ones (yes, I do spend way too much time with that lol). That painted a really clear picture in my head of what they were aiming for next and what to expect. I really liked what I saw. It did match with what I wanted to see for years. The things they are saying in ATV-s and such nowdays though, is slowly moving away from that. What trickles down into the game is also slowly moving away from that picture in such a manner that points in the direction of simplification and making things more accessible to appease the masses, and I don't like really it. It makes perfect business sense ofc...
"You still have the option of slowboating it, nobody is forcing you to take the fast way!"
This is exactly the mentality that I just can't agree with. Read the "spoiler" section in my OP.
I have the option, yaaay... While you and everyone else has the "option" to just zip by and get what they want faster and more efficiently with no effort, not the "dumb old slow way". Thus this game slowly turning into what games like WoW are today. Nope, I don't like that idea. If I wanted another game like that, I wouldn't have backed it back then. I already own tons of those that I like.
The vision I got sold on wasn't that vision. Although to be fair, I backed for the single player experience as making an MMO out of it was just a stretch goal. Also, I remember being literally promised by CR, in his words, that this won't be your typical MMO...
Bah, whatever, enough of this "he promised me" stuff, I get it why ppl say it's kinda dumb. Let's wait and see what we get!
Dumbing down leads to the dark side... dumbing down leads to click-to-fly-to .... click-to-fly leads to no effort ... no effort leads to Emptiness.
Just another mediocre boring MMO with a fancy space backdrop no one cares about because you don't have to earn anything, thus you won't feel rewarded in the long run.
Play an old "shitty" game like Privateer, and keep playing it despite the "horrible" slow ways it plays. If you keep with it and find some success, maybe you will get why I think it's important to keep SC the way it is.
just a thought that occured to me:
In a way, CiG is the victim of it's own design. Telling us every week how we shape and change the way things are makes us believe that we will get what we want, and more often than not we forget that there are literally millions of other backers who might not want the same things. Hence why you get ppl like me bitching about it.
TL.DR.: am I in the wrong here for wanting a game that I was told I was getting (several times throughout the years), that appealed to me instead of appealing to the masses that don't even care about it?
Looking through the stuff you lot talked about: I think that a limited access to specialty ships would have been a good idea on the PU, not just the PTU. Both for testing, and for morale.
I couldn't get into the PTU cos time constraints, but now I could I guess? I just need to clean up my SSD, and then see what this all mining thing is about.
Dear Leader, You addressing this humble Test Servant with your wise words is ... humbling! But beware! While reading through your answers, the vague notion came to me, that if someone uninformed and uninitiated saw it, they might end up accusing you of... omg, I daren't even say it.... Fanboyism!
:joy::joy::joy:
Anyways, I do sincerely hope that my concerns end up as baseless and irrational.
That said...
Sorry Boss, you're my victim this time, but I need to get this out of my system, otherwise I might end up asking for a refund before 4.5 comes out :D Here we go again...:
ESP not working
yep, that explains it, thanks! I assumed it was fixed cos they said in ATV that they did fix it kinda, but I couldn't remember if it made it in to the patch or not.
"...unique definition of P2W..."
I don't think that "having an advantage over your fellow players for paying more" is a unique definition of P2W.
I'm not arguing that the "game will be P2W"! I'm arguing that in this current state, the way things are arranged and working and whatnot, it kind of is.
What is a Win in SC? Whatever you want it to be! For me, it includes completing PVE missions that involve some space combat, standing a chance of at least running away in PVP, doing cargo runs at a rate that makes it possible to buy that fancy armor with the cape before the next patch comes out and wipes everything... Yes I can try to do all these in a starter Aurora, but do I stand a chance of doing them? No. Not much really.
Why? because obviously this is an Alpha and stuff is unbalanced, broken, and we are limited to the ships we bought with real money! What would make me able to have these Wins at this very moment, with the current state of mechanics? By Paying Real Money. Could this look like or make someone feel like it's P2W? I think Yes.
That is all I meant by it.
Also, easy solution: allow REC rentals. REC can be earned and exchanged to equipment and ships to earn REC faster, and to earn enough for the rental you want. Progression. No extra payments needed.
It was fine in 2.x when that worked.
And as I said in my OP, I Know it won't be Pay2Win! But it kinda Looks like that at the current state.
I think CiG should be more careful about this. They get enough shit from the outside already, they don't need more shit from inside.
Also, I know that the "content" in the patches is behind a paywall of ships because they need to make money on ship sales, they are a company of 500 and need to pay salaries and rent and yada yada.. Fair enough!!
If this leads to me, the player with the base package, being unable to enjoy the game the same way as others can, that doesn't mean that I have to be always happy about the way they do it though, right?
Imagine how this looks to someone who just bought the shiny new 35 bucks starter pack we SC fans keep shilling (yes I do that when my friends ask me how much it costs), get's loaded into the game for the first time, excited that they can finally play what everyone was talking about, imagines how awesome piracy and mining and all that will be like.... and gets slapped in the face by the reality of what I described.
This is why you, and a lot of us, tell our friends to stay away for now. But if that person doesn't have friends like us, just hears about the game kinda working, kinda cheap to get into, and so on... I have friends like those, but they got lucky and remembered to ask me before clicking the buy button on that aurora pack.
All in all, not a good strategy on CIGs end, imho.
Anyways, as I said, to me this will only be cause for concern until we get the chance to rent or buy ships in-game, which might be as soon as 3.3. Than I can only hope that we won't get fully wiped every 4-5 days so we can actually get the slightest impression of what progression will be like. Give us 2 weeks at least please :joy:
Staying away:
I'm not staying away as much as I should because
A: I still love how the game looks and feels, and also we are supposed to be Testing right?, and B: I'm interested in what I'm going to get in the end as a playable game. I think that being interested in what you will be getting out of your "investment" ,and I only call it an "investment" because I couldn't find a better word for it, is only natural. Lets face it, when ppl put down their money, I think it perfectly fair to assume that some of them will expect that something, whatever it might be, will be coming out of it.
It's not like I'm going to ask for a refund, getting a fully acted and beautiful and vast single player space sim like WingCommander for 60bucks, when there were absolutely zero such games on the market for the last 10 years is still a bargain!
Fair point on the AI. I found that AC is a good indicator of progress though, it felt better and better with the patches. Will check it out later, I just didn't have the time yet. mostly because of typing this instead lol...
"I predict space combat will be dumbed down big time! This game needs to appeal to the masses, not the 35 elite dogfighters out there that insist the game must be hard!"
Those predicitons might come true, I hope they don't.
You see, I don't want this to be another game that appeals to the masses. Am I bad person for wanting something that is not like every other game, and thus appeals to me instead of those "masses" that might not even care about it anyways?
I don't want this to be "hard", as in hard like WC3 and 4 was for example. See how I was bitching about the AI in my op?
I want it to have Depth, and to require some effort on the part of the player. The current level is fine! With power management, it got even more depth, that's great!
I don't want space combat to be dumbed down to the mass appeal of point and click. There are literally thousands of those kind of games already! As you said, there are lots of great games out there to play instead of SC! And I'm perfectly fine with anyone who doesn't want to put in the effort just staying away and playing their favorite way more accessible games! That doesn't mean I have to like that CIG is slowly changing their tune from "we want a complex game with intricate deep game mechanics" to being just another one of those thousands of "more accessible" games.
"Anybody here that is not capable of accepting the fact that this game might be dumbed down a lot should go sell their stuff on the grey market right now!"
'ka tschrungggggg' Aaand that's the sound of the grey market doing a Bitcoin. As in at least quarter of the player base gone :joy::joy:
But that doesn't matter, cos surely ppl who never cared for space games will flock in for the simple gameplay that makes playing farmville look like a raelly complex game! /s
So, the game should be dumbed down to be accessible to the masses, but it should also alienate the ppl that backed it for the vision of a non-dumbed-down game they were sold on in the beginning. Shouting "make it inclusive!!!" while dividing it way more by telling ppl to fuck off if they don't like this new more "progressive" direction. Wow, where have I seen this before...
I don't think CiG will go this far with it though. It's not like they are a secret undercover branch of EA... :wink:
It's not like a can't accept it, or understand why. It's just not what I want out of this, so I'm kinda not happy about it, that's all.
"At the end of the day this is Chris Roberts vision, not mine, not yours. "
CR had a vision, and I backed because he sold me, and you, and quite a few other ppl, on his vision.
He didn't sell us on thin air, or Juiceros, or other nonsense. He described his vision through numerous videos and interviews, and sold us on That vision. I think it's fair to except that he tries to keep to what he sold us on. How much one expects him to hold to that, is personal preference ofc.
Now this vision is "evolving" all the time, which is fine, just this time around I'm not happy with those changes. Maybe next week he will wake up with another change in his vision, and it will match the vision he sold me on years ago more than it does today. I'll wait and see, but because I have the chance to be part of it, I also get the chance to voice my likes and dislikes about these changes. That's where open development leads. Want to keep making changes to your vision without getting called out on it, and having to listen to ppl crying about it, just shut those doors and windows, and problem solved.
Also, what I was going on about is that we as the backers, do seem to have some input into this "vision", into how things turn out to be, and that back-and-forth does matter. It might influence that vision in directions some might not expect.
At least it seems like we do...? How much of that actually happens, I can't tell. Maybe those who are active on the CIG forums can.
"...or you can come in right now with your own preconcieved notions of what you believe this game should be like..."
Not all of us just have baseless preconceived notions. Some of us have pretty well informed notions, or at least we are led to believe that we do! We are told a on an almost daily basis what this game should be like! Again, open development. It means that they get to tell us how it should be, and we get to react to that. Note that I don't think it means that they should listen to our reactions..
I'm an original backer. I've been following almost all the official forum posts and youtube videos of interviews and ATVs and the rest since the very first ones (yes, I do spend way too much time with that lol). That painted a really clear picture in my head of what they were aiming for next and what to expect. I really liked what I saw. It did match with what I wanted to see for years. The things they are saying in ATV-s and such nowdays though, is slowly moving away from that. What trickles down into the game is also slowly moving away from that picture in such a manner that points in the direction of simplification and making things more accessible to appease the masses, and I don't like really it. It makes perfect business sense ofc...
"You still have the option of slowboating it, nobody is forcing you to take the fast way!"
This is exactly the mentality that I just can't agree with. Read the "spoiler" section in my OP.
I have the option, yaaay... While you and everyone else has the "option" to just zip by and get what they want faster and more efficiently with no effort, not the "dumb old slow way". Thus this game slowly turning into what games like WoW are today. Nope, I don't like that idea. If I wanted another game like that, I wouldn't have backed it back then. I already own tons of those that I like.
The vision I got sold on wasn't that vision. Although to be fair, I backed for the single player experience as making an MMO out of it was just a stretch goal. Also, I remember being literally promised by CR, in his words, that this won't be your typical MMO...
Bah, whatever, enough of this "he promised me" stuff, I get it why ppl say it's kinda dumb. Let's wait and see what we get!
Dumbing down leads to the dark side... dumbing down leads to click-to-fly-to .... click-to-fly leads to no effort ... no effort leads to Emptiness.
Just another mediocre boring MMO with a fancy space backdrop no one cares about because you don't have to earn anything, thus you won't feel rewarded in the long run.
Play an old "shitty" game like Privateer, and keep playing it despite the "horrible" slow ways it plays. If you keep with it and find some success, maybe you will get why I think it's important to keep SC the way it is.
just a thought that occured to me:
In a way, CiG is the victim of it's own design. Telling us every week how we shape and change the way things are makes us believe that we will get what we want, and more often than not we forget that there are literally millions of other backers who might not want the same things. Hence why you get ppl like me bitching about it.
TL.DR.: am I in the wrong here for wanting a game that I was told I was getting (several times throughout the years), that appealed to me instead of appealing to the masses that don't even care about it?
Looking through the stuff you lot talked about: I think that a limited access to specialty ships would have been a good idea on the PU, not just the PTU. Both for testing, and for morale.
I couldn't get into the PTU cos time constraints, but now I could I guess? I just need to clean up my SSD, and then see what this all mining thing is about.
Mmmm. 'Access'...
"Your pledge will grant you continued access to this process. We encourage community feedback but the decisions must ultimately rest with the developer."
That text is in the checkout and has an "I agree" checkbox or you can't continue.
Now while I agree "Access" is open to interpretation, what is does not say is "Full access". I have access to a great many things without having full 100% overarching nuts-and-bolts access... I have full unhindered access to my local pub, but i'm not granted control of the beer-pumps. I have access to the public toilets in the middle of town but I don't have access to their cleaning-supplies store cupboard. I have access to the local police station but I'm not granted a go on the cop cars siren.
In the PTU where the big testing goes on where the new builds are released every day - that is where you have unhindered access to every weapon, every item of clothing, every mission, every mechanic, everything, because they do boring-as-shit testing there. They get the barmans pumps and the cop cars siren and the public toilet store-cupboard. But there is no "play" in the PTU because you go bug hunting: So you mine a rock in a prospector. Then you mine a rock in a prospector in a hat. Then you mine a rock in a prospector in a coat. Then you mine a rock in a prospector in a t-shirt, just to test if doing that crashes the game. Then you do all that over again equipped with a pistol. Then all that over again equipped with a rifle. If you take the goods back to port to sell, its to make sure you can sell it in a t-shirt or in a hat without crashing the game, rather than to make some bank to progress.
Thats why Evo are usually invited to the PTU, to ensure you don't get any players 'playing' and messing up the tests that need to be done.
As for the PU? How do you know that the PTU isn't for software testing and the PU for player-testing? If you want a Prospector to mine but don't have one, you now have a play-goal. Are they watching to see what you do? You 'aint got one, you want one, you gotta get one. Purchase is not mandatory. So do you steal one? Do you obtain one politely? it may require interacting with ones fellow players so press F12 and pay respects, you might get somewhere... There are more types of test, there are more types of data, and CIG would not be doing it's job if it wasn't looking in to community management while building an MMO game. Everyone in the PU may be a psychological test subject for them working out how to manage the community when the full game is in place, and limits on X,Y and Z may be part of that process. Do you know? I don't - for a fair test subjects and control subjects are not generally told which part of the test they are in.
We get access... the Evocati get 'Full' access in return for very boring services rendered although with the PTU now opened wider, as they say in concierge circles, "why not both?".
I will reiterate that I understand frustrations that when there is so little of the game to speak of, Cargo and Mining, not having access to one of those two mechanics means a comparatively huge 50% of the game is not instantly available to you but given time when salvage, science (the one i'm waiting for, and it's the last one they are going to do), data-running, bounty hunting... Mining may eventually be only 10% of all of the mechanics available...
However, perhaps a Prospector Free-Fly weekend might have helped relive folks curiosity a bit? Perhaps they wanted a few weeks of play-testing before unleashing it on everyone as a subscriber-access ship?
Thanks for the chat, always entertaining :)
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Don't forget Squadron 42. Everyone does because it's mostly under wraps because of Spoilers, but I think that may be the game you are looking for. If you don't play the Demo at least five times (when it comes out) then they may not have made the game you are expecting...
One thing I have learned from speaking to the more embittered persons on Spectrum is that the above, the old ATV's and the youtube videos and the comments from Devs are what some people bought in to and they bought in to it hard, ignoring the tick-box when pledgeing that says, basically: "Subject to change".
Recently I spoke with a chap on Spectrum who said that he had been lied to. I challenged that - At the point the devs said things, they likely believed them, even when they were saying X up until the very day it changed. It doesn't matter what the dev actually said, if that particular backer liked it, and it changed, then that automatically makes that a lie, ignoring the fact that in the checkout, when they handed over their money, they said "Alpha, and things may change? Yeah, I agree.".
The Cutlass is a case in point - It was implemented and what it was just didn't work. I can only imagine the disappointment when the devs realised, no one wants to give up on a wonderful dream, the fighting freighter, but when we woke up that dream faded in the light of day: the Cutlass was a mess, it really was, everyone saw it and everyone knew it. The rework had to painfully in some cases redefine the ship, but it has turned out better than anyone could have or would have expected from that craft.
Did they believe the Cutlass could have been the ship it was originally envisioned to be in the advert with the Vanduul ship chancing it? You bet. Does that mean they were lieing to us when they pitched the concept? Nope. It was a concept: Reality is a harsh mistress.
No, you are not wrong. You believed them and THEY believed them. What we may have to accept in the next few years is, like the Cutlass of old, some dreams are just that. Dreams. But take heart - the Cutlass shows that just because one thing is not possible in reality, it does not mean all is lost and may even turn out better than the original dream.
:slight_smile:
ThunderKraken
Space Marshal
We've all had too much Brain-Juice!
Time for some Anti-Brain Juice...
*pours beer on cornflakes*
Thats better. :)
I have had ale on cornflakes before, it's not as good as you'd think. True story.
You are my favorite Hungarian! :D
The bottom line of this is that sometimes we need to take a step back.
I used to be like you!
I used to be worried about every little thing!
I used to get angry when a weapon stat changed, or the speed was modified on a ship!
I took a step back, accepted that not everything was going to be the way I want it to be!
I can tell you that there will be some things I think are stupid in this game, but there will also be things I will like.
But to get to that point, I need to give myself a comfortable distance and only truly get involved when the product is a lot closer to being finished!
borrow others ships and soon you can purchase ships in store.
Beer is not anti-brain juice :cry:. Tell me it's not so.
JonSpencer
Grand Admiral
I originally came in about 2.9 or 3.0, so not long ago. Bought the Aurora, noticed I couldn't even pick up a box and deliver, so upgraded to the Avenger. Also bought the Loot and Scoot package, cuz the Cutlass and Dragonfly I thought would be kewl. Right now, my Aurora spawns with ladders down and can't enter, Avenger is full of cargo I can't sell b/c sell console is broke, and the cutlass is just sitting in storage b/c since I can't trade or mine, why take it out and waste gas. BTW...I bought the Cutlass b/c I bought with rec and tested out in the PU, then decided it was a ship I wanted out there when the rental ended...but they went and yanked that away b/c can't have people testing shit out in an Alpha?!?!
So essentially I'm sitting around not able to do jack squat (even less than in prior releases) b/c they seem to have broke trading, missions still suck, AI combat is way OP, and didn't have the sense to allow mining equipment to be purchased and equipped on ships. You don't want to give out loaner Prospectors - fine, but why is there no option to get a mining package and slap it on (almost) any ship so you can test new patch features and feel like you're part of the process?
I have just over $200 USD in the game, more than some, less than others. Seems like wasted money and they don't give a rats ass about you unless you drop a grand or more into a 'promise'. Guess I'll go play Squadron 42 that I was told was scheduled for release Aug 2018 when I signed up. Oh wait...can't do that either till sometime next year most likely. Sigh...
Finally, I will say the frame rate still needs work, but seems to be a little better. Game stability seems to have made a lot of improvements, not 100% yet, but at least it does appear some positive steps have been taken in this area. Just really disheartening that I paid for the privilege to support this vision, then feel marginalized and duped. Maybe Chris can say technically this isn't P2W since there is no finish line to cross, but sure is hell isn't being developed in a way where you get to experience the new features without spending ridiculous amounts of money.
So essentially I'm sitting around not able to do jack squat (even less than in prior releases) b/c they seem to have broke trading, missions still suck, AI combat is way OP, and didn't have the sense to allow mining equipment to be purchased and equipped on ships. You don't want to give out loaner Prospectors - fine, but why is there no option to get a mining package and slap it on (almost) any ship so you can test new patch features and feel like you're part of the process?
I have just over $200 USD in the game, more than some, less than others. Seems like wasted money and they don't give a rats ass about you unless you drop a grand or more into a 'promise'. Guess I'll go play Squadron 42 that I was told was scheduled for release Aug 2018 when I signed up. Oh wait...can't do that either till sometime next year most likely. Sigh...
Finally, I will say the frame rate still needs work, but seems to be a little better. Game stability seems to have made a lot of improvements, not 100% yet, but at least it does appear some positive steps have been taken in this area. Just really disheartening that I paid for the privilege to support this vision, then feel marginalized and duped. Maybe Chris can say technically this isn't P2W since there is no finish line to cross, but sure is hell isn't being developed in a way where you get to experience the new features without spending ridiculous amounts of money.
JonSpencer
Grand Admiral
TY - sorry I didn't sign up on the forums sooner. Game crashing and just life in general issues forced me to step away for a bit.
Well, after 2+ days of not being able to sell, today I was able too. Go figure. Aurora still glitched, but with size of install, would rather wait till next patch release than spend 1-2 days re-installing. Using the city parks I-net next to my house, so speed isn't the best. Avenger is my preferred putzing around ship anyway - just use the Aurora when I think Im going to crash and die, either via game bug or cuz i can't fly. :)