A2 Hercules - Space Combat Variant

[LoicFarris]

Curious what you all think of this thread and my comments.

Space Combat Version of the Hercules A2

In a nutshell, I recently got an A2, love the ship, not pleased with its limitations to areal ground assault. Hoping to catch CIGs eye, want a sleeker ship than the HH, with a less military like interior that can hold its own in the vacuum. Anyway, have a read curious what people think.

 

[Will C.]

It has been overpriced since it's concept came out.

 

[LoicFarris]

It has been overpriced since it's concept came out.

Yeah that's why I acquired one before it becomes even more over-priced. But I'm still happy to support the game.

 

[Bambooza]

Why not get a Hammerhead? I understand you want it to be sleeker and less military interior but the A2 was purpose build to transport tanks and ground crew near or possibly into hot zones and more than likely working alongside the Valkyrie which is also another planetside ground focused ship. The only thing really missing is a way to create an orbital stage to load up these ships before dropping planetside. Think of it as playing Battlefield 2142 and instead of just fighting over a random base its a Vanduul stronghold or a Pirate enclave.

 

[Ammorn]

I think all they'd have to do to make an aerial combat variant would be to allow it to store and launch missiles and torpedoes like the bomber version. It could be a bulk bombardment ship that's not necessarily as tanky as big missile and torpedo ships. I could see something like that filling a support roll, dishing out some damage and hauling more ammo for the fleet. The simplest thing they could do is make some kind of missile pod the size of the bombs that the bomber drops so that you drop a pod that launches a volley of missiles or torpedoes.

 

[LoicFarris]

Why not get a Hammerhead? I understand you want it to be sleeker and less military interior but the A2 was purpose build to transport tanks and ground crew near or possibly into hot zones and more than likely working alongside the Valkyrie which is also another planetside ground focused ship. The only thing really missing is a way to create an orbital stage to load up these ships before dropping planetside. Think of it as playing Battlefield 2142 and instead of just fighting over a random base its a Vanduul stronghold or a Pirate enclave.

I have actually thought of getting an HH, it's part aesthetics and fantasy of my life in space. What would I want to fly, what would I want to live in. Kinda like buying a car, we pick a car in part for its utility and in part for its looks.

But for the purely utilitarian aspect of the game I will more than likely wind up with a HH at one point unless they make some adaptations to the A2. I don't think that an A2 could take on a HH even with my suggestions, but I'd like to be able to keep one at bay long enough to get away maybe.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I think the Hercs will all be too slow to fight in space. It's an armored transport. If they gave it the speed of the HH, they'd have to take away a great many other things for the sake of game balance. As current, I would expect SCM between 100-120, and afterburner about 800. Ships that are larger will be able to catch it, including the Polaris, which makes it a nice target for space combat.

 

[Ammorn]

The only thing really missing is a way to create an orbital stage to load up these ships before dropping planetside. Think of it as playing Battlefield 2142 and instead of just fighting over a random base its a Vanduul stronghold or a Pirate enclave.

I still think they need some sort of massive single cargo hold freighter, a big flying box with bay doors. They don't have anything in universe to move large objects or structures that can't easily be moved in smaller parts or assembled at the destination, or large things that need to be protected from space. I'd say massive objects would logically be moved with some kind of barge or drydock that's towed with SRVs.

I think Drake would be a good manufacture to fit this type of ship as a competitor and response to the Hull series but answering needs they don't fill. Just a flying boxy hanger or bay with some engines on the sides, crew quarters and bridge on the top, and a full bay door on the front and back, with some large bay doors on the sides. It would be perfect for Drake since it fits the industrial roll they shoot for, but also could be used as a kind of makeshift carrier, base, or chop shop for pirates and criminals. Something cheaper and less conspicuous than the Kraken, but less armed and armored and more suited to small gangs as a mothership. In lore it could be part of the reason why MISC Hull became a series of larger ships if they were competing to build bigger cargo ships for more market share.

 

[LoicFarris]

I still think they need some sort of massive single cargo hold freighter, a big flying box with bay doors. They don't have anything in universe to move large objects or structures that can't easily be moved in smaller parts or assembled at the destination, or large things that need to be protected from space. I'd say massive objects would logically be moved with some kind of barge or drydock that's towed with SRVs.

I think Drake would be a good manufacture to fit this type of ship as a competitor and response to the Hull series but answering needs they don't fill. Just a flying boxy hanger or bay with some engines on the sides, crew quarters and bridge on the top, and a full bay door on the front and back, with some large bay doors on the sides. It would be perfect for Drake since it fits the industrial roll they shoot for, but also could be used as a kind of makeshift carrier, base, or chop shop for pirates and criminals. Something cheaper and less conspicuous than the Kraken, but less armed and armored and more suited to small gangs as a mothership. In lore it could be part of the reason why MISC Hull became a series of larger ships if they were competing to build bigger cargo ships for more market share.

I thought the hull series was supposed to fulfill that purpose? Not the case?

 

[Ammorn]

I thought the hull series was supposed to fulfill that purpose? Not the case?

Yeah they're bulk transport, but they're container ships with lots of small cargo containers like IRL cargo freighters, so the biggest thing you can fit in it is limited to the size of about a tractor trailer container. They're more like space trains. They can haul lots of small things to moderate sized things, which would be most or a lot of the stuff traded I think. Though you'd still have some larger or odd sized stuff that can't fit in a cargo container, some of those things could be carried with internal bay ships, though there's no cargo ships with real large bays, the largest bays on ships are hangers on combat ships. I want to catch some kind of alien T-Rex and crash the ship into microTech and let it loose.

 

[ShakyWater]

If the Hercules ships are based on the C-130 Hercules and the C-5 Galaxy:

99% of what they do is fill support roles.
1% is ground support. (AC-130 gunship)

The gunship is only used against ground targets once air superiority is established.

If the A2 is CIG's version of the AC-130, it doesn't have a ship to ship combat role.

 

[Ammorn]

If the Hercules ships are based on the C-130 Hercules and the C-5 Galaxy:

99% of what they do is fill support roles.
1% is ground support. (AC-130 gunship)

The gunship is only used against ground targets once air superiority is established.

If the A2 is CIG's version of the AC-130, it doesn't have a ship to ship combat role.

This. That's why I say they could just let it shoot missiles and torps one way or another. Like how a B-52 bomber has been fitted to launch missiles or cruise missiles as well as bombs, AC-130 variants have planned upgrades including Hellfire missiles, laser guided rockets based on the Hydra 70, and Stinger missiles. However, with all that, it's just either for defense or to augment some of their ground pound capability. Also the C-5 has been tested and proven to launch Minutemen ICBMs, but they're basically just kicking them out the back door on a pallet like a MOAB and sending them on their way with a delayed launch. I don't think letting an A2 shoot missiles or torps would be too op since it would be a little bit of a glass cannon compared to a ship of the line and still fill more of a support roll as extra firepower and supplies and need other ships to protect it.

 

[Bambooza]

This. That's why I say they could just let it shoot missiles and torps one way or another. Like how a B-52 bomber has been fitted to launch missiles or cruise missiles as well as bombs, AC-130 variants have planned upgrades including Hellfire missiles, laser guided rockets based on the Hydra 70, and Stinger missiles. However, with all that, it's just either for defense or to augment some of their ground pound capability. Also the C-5 has been tested and proven to launch Minutemen ICBMs, but they're basically just kicking them out the back door on a pallet like a MOAB and sending them on their way with a delayed launch. I don't think letting an A2 shoot missiles or torps would be too op since it would be a little bit of a glass cannon compared to a ship of the line and still fill more of a support roll as extra firepower and supplies and need other ships to protect it.

All valid points but CIG has been heading towards very defined single role ships as of late which makes for more opportunities for forced cooperation, not sure they will be going back towards more of the multi-role ships we saw initially with ships like the Freelancer, Cutlass, and Constellation.

I still think they need some sort of massive single cargo hold freighter, a big flying box with bay doors. They don't have anything in universe to move large objects or structures that can't easily be moved in smaller parts or assembled at the destination, or large things that need to be protected from space. I'd say massive objects would logically be moved with some kind of barge or drydock that's towed with SRVs.

I like the idea and it would be neat to see in space. But I think our best bet is to find and liberate a Bengal Carrier.

 

[Vavrik]

I think the best idea is to get the ship(s) that are most likely to give you the game play that you want to have in game. There's no "the Hammer Head is better" or "the A2 is best". Besides, I think that both the Hammer Head and the A2 were meant to complement each other, with a few fighter escorts. If you intend to do any trade activities, there are definitely better ships than both. EDIT: Including both of the other Herc variants.

 

[Ammorn]

All valid points but CIG has been heading towards very defined single role ships as of late which makes for more opportunities for forced cooperation, not sure they will be going back towards more of the multi-role ships we saw initially with ships like the Freelancer, Cutlass, and Constellation.

Yeah, The funky thing with the A2 is that it's a bit of a mix. It should have been more of a gunship and heavy bomber, and not been designed for military transport as well. Well, unless if it wasn't carrying cargo/troops/vehicles it could make full use of the cargo bay for ammo storage with some sort of way to move bombs and such and load them into the bomb bay or launching mechanism. If it was designed like that, as a heavy bomber/gunship with some cargo capability if need be, then that would be a lot better. You could carpet bomb the hell out of something with 1 A2 Hercules, and provide ground support as a gunship while an M2 Hercules or some Valkyries drop off troops, vehicles, and supplies.

I like the idea and it would be neat to see in space. But I think our best bet is to find and liberate a Bengal Carrier.

They do have the largest bay out of any ship currently. A Bengal would make an awesome mobile black market for smugglers or pirates.

Errant Venture

Sometimes I think of that ship as one massive red warning light.Mara Jade Skywalker The Errant Venture was an Imperial II-class Star Destroyer captured by the smuggler Booster Terrik. Originally commissioned into the Imperial Navy as the Virulence, under Terrik's ownership she became something...

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[Printimus]

The A2 was concepted to be just like the AC-130. Focused on ground attacks with its belly guns. It is, above all else, a transport ship, not an air-to-air (or space) combat vessel like the Hammerhead is specialized in. CIG is getting more and more into specializing these ships and less about the "jack of all trades" roles because if one ship can do everything, there wont be a reason to have more than one ship.

 

[Michael]

Yeah they're bulk transport, but they're container ships with lots of small cargo containers like IRL cargo freighters, so the biggest thing you can fit in it is limited to the size of about a tractor trailer container. They're more like space trains. They can haul lots of small things to moderate sized things, which would be most or a lot of the stuff traded I think. Though you'd still have some larger or odd sized stuff that can't fit in a cargo container, some of those things could be carried with internal bay ships, though there's no cargo ships with real large bays, the largest bays on ships are hangers on combat ships. I want to catch some kind of alien T-Rex and crash the ship into microTech and let it loose.

They are thinking about different container sizes. I don't see a problem why there shouldn't be much larger cargo containers who still fit on the Hulls.
at least a "4x2 xxl" container compared to this:

And much larger objects are supposed to be assembled on site anyway.

 

[Crymsan]

The a2 is also currently very atmosphere capable and they have stated some of the other big ships are going to suffer in this environment such that they cannot take off. So whilst the a2 is not a space monster most of the game seems to be planet focused. Note I agree the a2 was silly priced I just have the civilian variant. The big space ships that could do a2 role in space i.e. kraken and idris are going to suffer in gravity and are of course more expensive. The polaris is the closest combat wise but has limited cargo.

 

[Duhb]

I think the best idea is to get the ship(s) that are most likely to give you the game play that you want to have in game. There's no "the Hammer Head is better" or "the A2 is best". Besides, I think that both the Hammer Head and the A2 were meant to complement each other, with a few fighter escorts. If you intend to do any trade activities, there are definitely better ships than both. EDIT: Including both of the other Herc variants.

This right here... you want to land troops and tonks your going to bring in the Hercules Hercules... you don’t want to get spaced on the way into atmo, then a escort will be a must. And once your closer to the ground you will punish anybody ground side foolish enough to take a pot shot at you. This makes you think strategically, yeah I would love to bring all twenty of my buddies to do a ground assault, but damn it I will be exposed hard core, so going to have to have some of them fly escort, and then set up a safe beachhead for all of us.

 

[DirectorGunner]

For me, I assume it will have it's designated use for sure, and hold out hope for additional use.
A2 to me will work great for evicting neighbors who play their music too loud at night.
Other than that, I just hold out hope that they'll make it a beast to contend with.