Dune

Carlos Spicyweiner

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Has anyone else here read all of the Dune novels?

What was your reaction to the new film?

Cheers!
Big fan. Read all the books and saw all the movies, and this one is the best yet. VERY disappointed at the ending until I learned there was a part 2, I just hope I don't have to wait years for it.
 

SoloFlyer

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I'm trying to read all of the dune novels chronologically. Unfortunately (for me) that means starting with the books Jr. wrote. I forced my way up to the trilogy right before the original Dune novel but haven't been able to muster up the effort to start it yet. Read the original series years ago and loved them.

I guess as far as the movie goes I wasn't paying enough attention to the news about it before I watched so was caught flat footed when it ended, but if there is another one coming out then I can wait for it.
 

NoizeMaker

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Been a fan for years! Only ever read Dune, Children, and Messiah when I was in my teens, though I really should get back to the saga and finish it. Loved the old sci-fi series even with its quirks.

The movie was slow, methodical, and grand in both scope and vision - which is exactly what I expected from the first half of the book.
The ending was a little abrupt and felt more like an intermission than an ending - which is also exactly what I expected because I knew this was going to be "Part 1".

I am SO hyped for Part 2 and think Villeneuve did it justice.
 

Sky Captain

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I've read most, if not all, of the books. I had always felt that the Frank Herbert books were intriguing but murky. For me, the Brian Herbert / Kevin Anderson books helped flesh out the Dune universe's bigger picture more. So now its a little tough to go back to the starting Dune story and have patience for the relatively confined nature of the first story. But it still all great.

As for the film, overall I give it high marks. Best Dune adaptation to date. I liked the settings, most character portrayals, 'thopters, and pacing. This film made Dune feel like a legitimate SciFi universe, something I felt previous films failed at. I knew that this film was Part 1 of 2, but didn't appreciate how abruptly it would end, wow! I liked less how the film glossed over relatively esoteric Dune terms and topics, yet spent minutes on some action scenes that didn't amount to much except escaping from sand. While I liked the portrayals, I felt character development lacked. Not sure that those who never read the books would 'get it' for some characters. The sand worms were super cool, though plenty of room for them to be the star of the next show. The film definitely needs its Part 2 to be complete.

What left me unsettled about the film was how stupid the Atreides are portrayed as being. Leto, one of the most powerful leaders in the Imperium, blindly allows honor and duty to lead him into what was hinted all along as being an obvious trap? And then the Atreides forces were so limited and unprepared for the Harkonen and Saudukar assault? I get that it followed Frank Herbert's story more or less. But in the film, seeing a 'Great House' bumbling around like that, felt like too easy a plot device. It underscored for me that this film is really just setting (in a good way) the board for more Dune films to come.
 

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I've only read one of the books but I'm still a big fan of the original film and the mini series. I really enjoyed this new take on it and I especially liked the musical score they came up with. It's pleasing to me when I can instantly tell what location or characters are going to be coming up just from the music. Looking forward to seeing the next part.
 

Aramsolari

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Just came back from an IMAX screening.

Worth the wait.

Villeneuve is truly the master of Scifi adaptations.

Pretty much all the casting was bang on. The visuals and production values were stunning. My only complaint is that certain scenes were unbearably dark though I blame it on the IMAX projection and/or the theatre.

So happy that Dune finally received a blockbuster treatment along the lines of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings (Sorry Lynch...your version was well..kinda meh lol).

Eagerly awaiting part II.

Also.....this is a damn good looking film.

si7p8oi5cuv71.jpg
 
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NoizeMaker

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So this may be a small rant with a little explicit language which I'll hide in spoiler tags... and I apologize, but I'm personally a little peeved off that WB keeps screwing up visionary/grand IP's by not committing. Marvel/Fox/Disney took massive risks and proved that if you commit to legacy IP, you're almost guaranteed success with the right people (and even sometimes with the wrong people).

  • Justice League had issues but could have been salvaged if they'd committed. Now we're stuck in nothing but constant reboots and no end in sight.
  • Denis Villeneuve didn't get commitment until Dune showed promise at the 59th minute of the 11th hour - which is idiotic considering WB knew from the very beginning that the movie would never cover the whole plotline.
My message to WB: Shit or get off the pot. Commit to your projects or get out of the way of production companies with guts; those who stand by their decisions and show actual vision and planning and not a bunch of tentative pussy-footing around the consumer's whimsy.
 

Aramsolari

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So this may be a small rant with a little explicit language which I'll hide in spoiler tags... and I apologize, but I'm personally a little peeved off that WB keeps screwing up visionary/grand IP's by not committing. Marvel/Fox/Disney took massive risks and proved that if you commit to legacy IP, you're almost guaranteed success with the right people (and even sometimes with the wrong people).

  • Justice League had issues but could have been salvaged if they'd committed. Now we're stuck in nothing but constant reboots and no end in sight.
  • Denis Villeneuve didn't get commitment until Dune showed promise at the 59th minute of the 11th hour - which is idiotic considering WB knew from the very beginning that the movie would never cover the whole plotline.
My message to WB: Shit or get off the pot. Commit to your projects or get out of the way of production companies with guts; those who stand by their decisions and show actual vision and planning and not a bunch of tentative pussy-footing around the consumer's whimsy.
WB has had a couple of box office bombs in the past couple of years. They're financially not in as strong as a position as Disney. I agree with you that WB could have grown a pair and backed Villeneuve 100% at the beginning. That said, I understand their apprehension at backing a project as ambitious as Dune. Dune is essentially a brand new franchise. Minus the fans of the books and folks who grew up with the Lynch version and/or the Syfy Miniseries, you're basically reaching out to an audience that's unfamiliar to this franchise.

Dune is no Star Wars or Marvel. Lord of The Rings was a huge gamble for New Line Cinema but even then it was a seat of your pants kind of production. If you follow the history of that production, there were times when it almost never happened. As a studio, all it takes is one bad move and you're done. New Line backed The Golden Compass over a decade ago thinking they had another LOTR and that almost sank them (They almost filed for bankruptcy and were in the end bought by funny enough...WB).

Film production as it is not an easy task. I've worked on my fair share of smaller productions that were plagued with money problems. Blockbuster productions (Where budgets can run into the hundreds of millions) is a whole different league. Toss in the unprecedented complication of producing a film during COVID19 and well...you'll have to forgive WB for taking a guarded approach.

I'm just glad Dune (2021) was made and Part II has been greenlit.
 
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maynard

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this movie wants to be seen on a Big Screen

it's a 90 minute drive from Bumphukt, MS to the nearest IMAX

and ticket sales are strong enough that Part 2 is sure to get the green light

so Imma wait 'til Part 2 is released and they're playing as a double feature
 

Aramsolari

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this movie wants to be seen on a Big Screen

it's a 90 minute drive from Bumphukt, MS to the nearest IMAX

and ticket sales are strong enough that Part 2 is sure to get the green light

so Imma wait 'til Part 2 is released and they're playing as a double feature
Part 2 was officially greenlit by WB a couple of days ago.

It's happening, Baby.
 

Sky Captain

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That's great news! Its really needed to complement the current film.

Beyond that, it would be great to see Dune launch as a broader next 'franchise'. Having read the expanded series, I think it could be done, ..... if .... they make the next film truly ..... compelling.

There is just so much cool .... though thoughtful .... material to work with.

The current film felt loyal to Frank Herbert's work, but .... outside of loyalists like some of us .... I'm not sure it is compelling enough to create a longer film series .... yet.

The quality of Dune 2 in 'setting the stage for a next scifi universe for the masses' will be critical.

Does anyone see Dune Messiah or Children of Dune being turned into next-gen films? (These seem even more esoteric to me).

How about the Herbert Junior / Kevin Anderson books being films? (which I find more accessible to the masses).
 
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Aramsolari

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I’ve read from several sources Villeneuve wants to do Dune Part 2 then immediately jump into Dune Messiah. The goal is to essentially make this a trilogy and wrap up the Paul story arc in three films.

No idea what comes after that though. Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, etc. WB’s willingness to do those will depend on the success of the other films.

Interesting to note is that Villeneuve and HBO wants to do a ‘Sisterhood of Dune’ series that covers the Bene Gesserit. It’s still in the works last I checked although I’ll rather a different show runner handle that project (maybe Villeneuve can direct the Pilot then pass it on). Rather the big guy focus on Dune Part 2 instead lol.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Just came back from an IMAX screening.

Worth the wait.

Villeneuve is truly the master of Scifi adaptations.

Pretty much all the casting was bang on. The visuals and production values were stunning. My only complaint is that certain scenes were unbearably dark though I blame it on the IMAX projection and/or the theatre.

So happy that Dune finally received a blockbuster treatment along the lines of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings (Sorry Lynch...your version was well..kinda meh lol).

Eagerly awaiting part II.

Also.....this is a damn good looking film.

View attachment 21609
I couldn't make it to the cinema due to health issues, but I just finished watching at home and I couldn't agree more! For me this was like watching LOTR back in the day. The first part of the next big epic! And it looked fuckin amazing!!
All the wide open shots, non of that in your face crap that todays made-for-streaming movies do (except for one important scene of closeup hell), this looks good even on a monitor (and the dark scenes are not an issue there).

I haven't read all the books and the one or two I remember reading was ages ago so most of my reference was from remembering the Lynch version mixed with the books. To me, this seemed perfectly fine. Well paced (almost, see below), story had all the must have elements, enough to get me hooked and make me follow and speculate on what's gonna happen and why, and the action and fights were done well enough except for the most important one. That's my only real critic of this movie, read below if you seen it already.
I hope there will be an extended cut?

As for the visuals:
I mostly shit on our (Hungarian) film industry, because the movies we put out is 99% unbearable utter trash and also cos I see it from the inside as a VFX artist and it's horrible what goes on behind the scenes...
But our film production, set design and set dressing industry is in a league of it's own. Blade Runner 2049 has shown how great visuals our ppl made can make a kinda boring movie compelling to watch on the largest screen possible, and this movie has raised the bar even higher. Tonns of practical sets, and I'm sure all the CG stuff was made as a physical models for reference as well, cos it's cheap and we got some very talented ppl (that's why most productions come here in the first place, cos cheap, but then keep coming back for the value they get). I know for a fact that even small "pop's garage" level shops were contracted to 3D print and manufacture lot's of practical sets and dressings, because I know some of the guys who worked on it, and they are ppl who would never expect to work on a Hollywood blockbuster.
Also if I may say so, I'm so fuckin proud when I see my highschool classmate and friend's name as Set Decorator Assistant Art Director (yeah don't ask what that means in practice, I'll have to ask him about it lol), especially knowing what he had to go through to get here. Stellar work!

now on to some ramblings and critiques
- As far as I know this was originally planned to be 2 parts.
I feel like if WB would have/could have committed to this movie fully, they could've done a more fleshed out first part and make it a trilogy. Some depth was missing from characters, showing the overall situation and strength and wealth of the houses along with a small part of their history, the motivations and character of their leaders, the past and present of these characters and so on, more world building in general, more context... I know who is who and what is what because I read the books/seen the previous film, played the games, and so on. The most needed basics were shown or mentioned in VO yes, but without prior knowledge it might feel confusing or weird. I'm sure I'll have to explain some of the context to the missus when we watch it together cos she doesn't know much about Dune apart from that she got bored and slept through the previous movie.For example, remember how it's like the last 5 minutes that we are told, not shown, that House Atreides is the strongest mofo in the club? Yet they just got their ass handed to them by supposedly smaller weaker forces? Yeah, that line should've been in the first 5 minutes and backed up with some sort of imagery. Show life in the palace on Dune, Paul's day in a short montage kinda thing to show him training, learning, getting a background to support his increasing balls so when it gets to it, we understand why he is not a weekling anymore and can beat the shit out of his opponent confidently, because last time we saw him he got beaten instantly by Gurney...
Things like this could have added more depth and interest to it and would have explained some things that might seem inconsistent otherwise I think. Yeah, dumb it down in a sense, just a bit to make it more palatable to the majority so it can gather a larger following. The importance of Dune and spice itself was made clear in only a single sentence. Yeah okay I get it, but it doesn't let it sink in how infinitely important it is to the workings of the whole civilization! It's important, bam, next important scene with important thing happening. Yeah, they had to cut it down short, but that's why I think there would have been room for a trilogy maybe?
- Cutting the whole shebang after the tent scene when they are found. Make it 2 hours ish long, slightly over if neccesary, and make it 3 parts. But for that to happen, WB would've had to commit to it... Is there enough to make this 3 parts, (edit: without Messiah)? I imagine next part would be loosing Duncan, a little bit deeper dive into what is happening with the fremen, water under the planet and their weeding operation, awekening (where this one ends), training and whatever, becoming muad dib, fremen life and shit with "meanwhile in Russia Harkonnen Land/imps/witches" parts breaking up the monotone of the desert. Last part would be "return of the king" and finishing the main quest, and whatever else happens in the books, I can't really remember, you guys can figure this out way better then I do
- on the other hand, my fear is now we might end up with another two parts instead of the originally imagined one part, cos WB can smell the money. But just making the originally planned content of part2 drag out longer. I just hope we don't end up with another Hobbit...

Just read what @Aramsolari above wrote about Messiah being the third part, so ignore my above speculation about trilogy.

- the closeup on the landing-leg on the envoy's ship looked like the worst CGI I've seen in years. Plain default black metal texture stargiht from textures.com on an almost featureless bog standard boxy claw shape. WTF... (sorry, it's just my job talking lol) Also there was a shot of the desert in certain light that looked fake as hell. I know from experience that it's way more tricky to render photoreal dunes than it sounds like, but damn that sucked for such an awesome looking movie. Otherwise it was all beautifull!

- The Ending: a lot of ppl criticize it that there was no big 15 minute CGI explosion orgasm at the end, but I feel like it was perfectly good there. This isn't a marvel movie, appreciate it for what it is. I felt like even the sandworm rider was a bit out of place, just chucked in there cos it looked cool and cost a lot of money to make.
This was a nice full arc, now on to the next questchain. BUT

- the last fight was choregraphed well, fast, brutal, as it should be! No dancing around for ages and fancy twirling swords for minutes like in SW. But I couldn't enjoy it at all, because the cinematography was utter shite! Too short cuts, and very disorienting, ya can't see shit most of the time. Just by wildly flailing the camera and cutting every 10 frames, you won't make it feel more dramatic! (recently just look at John Wick for reference, the slow moving camera and longer shots, yet utter brutality and speed conveyed, a dance of death which you can follow and feel and appreciate. Or maybe even more fitting here, the bus scene from Nobody! )
The most basic rules of good fight scenes were skipped and stepped over. Like the line between the two fighters, which you DO NOT EVER cut over in a close-up shot! This means both the line connecting them and perpendicular of it! If your character A is on the right in the first shot facing away from the camera, he HAS to be on the right in the next shot as well facing away from the camera, especially if you are cutting so fast and so zoomed in. Do Not Cross The FUCKING Line without a transition and do not do a 180 when you show it for less than a full second! You can ofc transition sides, but not by jump cutting to an entirely different close up shot! You can't place them, you as the viewer have no context as to who is where, what position they are in, and when it's so poorly lit and they are dressed so similarly (two grey-brown blobs on screen), it just doesn't follow! If you do a 180 at least keep it consistent and stay behind the same shoulder and give us a second to comprehend that we have skipped sides! Put something consistent in the background if you have to so we have a referrnce point! Many many ways in which this could have been way more dramatic if only we could see anything!
Then there's the framing. You see Pauls hair filling one frame (supposed to be his face but it's just a black blur), the back of their identical colored suits blurred, their faces coming blurred towards the camera for 5 frames, and that's it. The hands!!! It's a knife fight!!! Where the fuck were their hands??! Out of the frame that's where!! WTF??? You cannot convey the physicality of the fight without seeing the hits! It's like all the hits and their reactions were cut, and we are left with the inbetween movement. Which again, could be great, if only it would last more than half a second so we could see some bloody emotions!

TLDR: I get it, the director wanted this to be dramatic fight not a physical fight, a fight of characters not weapons, with their faces conveying lots of emotions, not your standard full body framed shots of just two guys beating each other. But it doesn't work if all you can see is half a seconds of fucking motion blur!
I wouldn't care if this was just a meaningless rando vs hero fight. But it's the only important fight in the whole movie really apart from Duncan's fight, which was done waaaay better just like 15 minutes before that. This is the protagonist's most important moment in the whole film, his awakening! What a waste...

- not a critique really, but the 'thopters design still makes no practical sense, especially when you even have personal scale levitation devices lol. Otherwise it's friggin sweet, and I NEEEED one on my desk STAT!

- DUNCAN's BEARD!! NOOOOOOOOO!
 

Aramsolari

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There's apparently a ton of stuff they had to cut out

Here are some of the scenes that Redditors curated that were cut from the Theatrical release. A lot of these scenes would have added more to the film but...well then we'll have a 4 hour movie lol. Perhaps we'll have an extended edition like what they did for LOTR.

Spoiler Below

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/qhs7c6/when_do_we_start_the_campaign_for_the/
As far as I know, they have cut:
  • Duncan arriving in Arrakis and finding the Fremen;
  • the extended version of the Gom Jabbar scene;
  • the banquet scene;
  • a conversation between Thufir and Paul after the hunter-seeker scene;
  • a conversation between Paul and Dr. Yueh. Yueh gives an OC Bible to Paul;
  • Yueh and Jessica talking about Wanna and Yueh cries;
  • Piter torturing a prisoner. Rabban is in the scene;
  • Piter + Thufir scene;
  • Piter drinking sapho juice;
  • More images of the Harkonnens;
  • Jessica training Paul at Kynes base;
  • And, of course, THE BALISET.
 

Devil Dog Hog

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There's apparently a ton of stuff they had to cut out

Here are some of the scenes that Redditors curated that were cut from the Theatrical release. A lot of these scenes would have added more to the film but...well then we'll have a 4 hour movie lol. Perhaps we'll have an extended edition like what they did for LOTR.

Spoiler Below

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/qhs7c6/when_do_we_start_the_campaign_for_the/
As far as I know, they have cut:
  • Duncan arriving in Arrakis and finding the Fremen;
  • the extended version of the Gom Jabbar scene;
  • the banquet scene;
  • a conversation between Thufir and Paul after the hunter-seeker scene;
  • a conversation between Paul and Dr. Yueh. Yueh gives an OC Bible to Paul;
  • Yueh and Jessica talking about Wanna and Yueh cries;
  • Piter torturing a prisoner. Rabban is in the scene;
  • Piter + Thufir scene;
  • Piter drinking sapho juice;
  • More images of the Harkonnens;
  • Jessica training Paul at Kynes base;
  • And, of course, THE BALISET.
Oh man, I thought I was drinking to much tonight when I saw all the blured images and started to squint. I wondered if I was needing reading glasses but then I realized I could just click on it to make it go away. Thank god I dont have to stop drinking, party on!
 

Harkonan

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I thought it was a Star Wars-esque love letter to the source material.

I loved it and can't wait for the rise of Muaddib, and perhaps Arrakis. 3 parts of this would be amazing.

The ending will have people who don't know the story pretty disappointed, as it's a slow burn with no real "pay off" at the end.

But for those who know what's about to come. YES, my body and spirit are ready for this. Hollywood actually did a franchise justice. IKR?
 
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