Citizencon 2022

Richard Bong

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To be fair, they did hit on 'investigation' missions. But that seems like MMO questing 101, right? But they are still building game systems (not necessarily expansive content) for that?
You missed part of it. They aren't building the system for investigation missions, they are just concepting how they think these missions should work.

Parting thought: Gotta love how backer dollars paid for a functioning martini bar on set for Jared. A cool .... and decadent (if not irresponsible) .... use of backer-provided funds? It took some balls to do that with backer dollars, even though it does look good.
Calling it fully functional is a bit of a stretch. It didn't appear to be more than a 3D printed lump of plastic of what a game designer, who has never mixed a drink, thinks a bar should look like. As someone that used to tend bar, and train bartenders it definitely wasn't up to anything I would build.
 
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Sky Captain

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Its not about the bar's materials. Its about the focus placed on it.

If it was a cheap set why spend so much time on it? Why not use that time to focus on what everyone came for instead: Showing SQ42 milestone completion.

As is, it served as a distraction. Let's not talk about milestone completion, lets talk about this cool new set instead.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Ya know, I just can't shake this feeling:
If you told me that every single thing shown during this 5h long presentation was made Only by the couple of ppl present in the studio, i would say sure. I believe you.
Because that's the level of progress that was shown.
Not the works of 500+ member studios, but the work of a dozen teenagers who banded together for a year in one of their parent's garage to try for the first time ever to make their own video game.
It's just... Tragic.
It's the first time ever that I haven't seen every second of livestream, actually I missed quite a lot of it, but I can't even be bothered to watch the summaries on YouTube.
 

Richard Bong

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Ya know, I just can't shake this feeling:
If you told me that every single thing shown during this 5h long presentation was made Only by the couple of ppl present in the studio, i would say sure. I believe you.
Because that's the level of progress that was shown.
Not the works of 500+ member studios, but the work of a dozen teenagers who banded together for a year in one of their parent's garage to try for the first time ever to make their own video game.
It's just... Tragic.
It's the first time ever that I haven't seen every second of livestream, actually I missed quite a lot of it, but I can't even be bothered to watch the summaries on YouTube.
I seriously believe the biggest problem with Star Citizen development is there is no clear definition of what "done" looks like.
 

Lorddarthvik

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I seriously believe the biggest problem with Star Citizen development is there is no clear definition of what "done" looks like.
Yes. There is no "done" state. They just want to keep going, and as long as they have the money, they will.
I know the feeling very well (without having the money), but as a professional CG artist for 15 years, I learned when I gotta say ENough. It's done.

With all the "it's just tier-0, wait for the actually good version" bullshit (it's bs because it contradicts the mantra they been pushing for the last 3-4 years that they want to give us more polished closer to final stuff) this won't end. Ever. (which would be okay for reasons below but..)
While they keep re inventing everything, the industry chugs along and does those things better, and invent new cool stuff. They do only one thing at a time, but as SC wants to be everything, it adds up pretty fast.
Case in point, the on-foot traversal update. Multiple FPS games started doing more freeflowing jumps (like I mentioned with new Doom), climbing, ledge-grabs and such, so now they must implement it to keep up. It's gonna take a lot of work. New mocap, pushing that to the skeleton and anim flow, fixing the skins to not deform stupidly with the new poses, new systems programmed that determine if a surface can be used for ledge grabs (I hope at least it's procedural and not hand-marked).. That's a shitton of work just to keep up with something that was cool 4-5 years ago.
And that's not counting the constant new additions that CR just pulls out of his hat that he wants to see developed to a sometimes ridiculous detail level.
It's what makes SC unique and immersive as nothing I played in many years, but it's also what ensures we won't have a finished state for years and years to come.

All of the above wouldn't be an issue if they went far enough with the tier-0 stuff that it consistently works, so we could play the game without so much frustration while they are doing this constant dance.

Is there even a tier-1 of anything in the game? So far every time they could have spent on fleshing out a tier1, they seem to be spending on reworking something to t0 again or adding idiotic stuff like a lightning guns, while we don't even add any reason to use those...
The only single exception seems to be Mining which is at a pretty good complex but fun state right now. I expect they will scrap it soon to do "even better" t0 of it.

lemme give you a short list of the smaller tasks that comes to mind of what needs to be done by CIG in the next N+1 years:
-cargo refactor (and possibly rework again cos we won't like it or it won't make sense etc..)
-rework every component again so they have repair/engineer gameplay
-rework every ship again to accept and support above comps
-rework every planet, possibly city, cos Roads will come
-(possibly) rework every weapon to have repair/upgrade gameplay (cos fallout has it so why not have the chance to add bigger barrels to guns and such)
-rework Flight AI as they do Ground AI
-add and later rework exploration/scanning gameplay
-add building player outpost (which was coming along pretty well last year)
-rework player outposts to support repair and power gameplay
-add the new power gameplay
-add and rework the bounty hunting stuff, cryo chambers and such
-add salvage tier 1, thus rework every ship again
-etc.

And I haven't even included the big stuff, like interstellar travel, subsumption AI, quanta, bartender, , "random encounters", commerce/trading rework...


You can all come up with more stuff that you heard they want/need to do...

I feel like I'm at the breaking point where I just had enough of this. Unless they show something FINISHED soon, I'll be joining the Kotaku staff...
 

BUTUZ

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I feel like I'm at the breaking point where I just had enough of this. Unless they show something FINISHED soon, I'll be joining the Kotaku staff...
Just chill. Just zip your credit card up safe, wait for the game to build, play it every now and again and have some fun, don't take it too seriously, and hope for the future that someone reigns in CR's explosive scope creep. Its all we can do is sit back and try an enjoy the ride.

I learned some time ago to let it all go - no obsessing over the next great ship, no binge watching youtube vids, no trawling reddit, no facebook no spectrum. Test forums are the only SC area I frequent.
 

maynard

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... I learned some time ago to let it all go - no obsessing over the next great ship, no binge watching youtube vids, no trawling reddit, no facebook no spectrum. Test forums are the only SC area I frequent.
I endorse this product or service
 

Lorddarthvik

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Just chill. Just zip your credit card up safe, wait for the game to build, play it every now and again and have some fun, don't take it too seriously, and hope for the future that someone reigns in CR's explosive scope creep. Its all we can do is sit back and try an enjoy the ride.

I learned some time ago to let it all go - no obsessing over the next great ship, no binge watching youtube vids, no trawling reddit, no facebook no spectrum. Test forums are the only SC area I frequent.
That was a joke, mostly. But yeah I'm kinda pissed at CIG. Citcon used to be a happy time of many wows and wohhhaaas, I want it back! I want my fix maaan!

It's not like I can do anything about it, but I won't pretend it's all going so flawlessly either. I know, I'm not being a good cultist, shame on me.

But I want more product, more faster. They fed me this drug, I expect them to be a good dealer and provide more.
Instead they keep showing me less product, and even that is being made slower. I don't like it, and I will damn well bitch about it here, cos
TEST forum is life!
But reality is a bitch. Oh well, I'll go play something else for the next ... 10 years? lol

I only watch Glorious Cult Leader Montoya's YT and sometimes the official channel or the summaries of the noobifier cos I ain't got the time anymore for Landos antics. The rest is cancer, just mindless zombies and haters.

ps.: the years-old internal demo scenes cut together, the 9 min that leaked was way more hype than anything shown this year. I want that but more and fresher. Is that too much to ask for once a year? really??

ps.ps: stop trying to tell me what I shouldn't be passionate about. I already got that covered, even got a ring to prove it.... 🍻
 

Devil Dog Hog

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This citizencon was bullshit! Where was my digital beers to get hammered on, where was my simulated puke, and dont get me started on the lack of a logout screen while hugging the non-functioning space toilets (though thats not far from my reality; yellow let it mellow, brown force it down). I tell you, if they do digital again next year I expect some damn happy hour coupons for the G-loc bar in area 18!
 

Deroth

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That was a joke, mostly. But yeah I'm kinda pissed at CIG. Citcon used to be a happy time of many wows and wohhhaaas, I want it back! I want my fix maaan!

It's not like I can do anything about it, but I won't pretend it's all going so flawlessly either. I know, I'm not being a good cultist, shame on me.

But I want more product, more faster. They fed me this drug, I expect them to be a good dealer and provide more.
Instead they keep showing me less product, and even that is being made slower. I don't like it, and I will damn well bitch about it here, cos
TEST forum is life!
But reality is a bitch. Oh well, I'll go play something else for the next ... 10 years? lol

I only watch Glorious Cult Leader Montoya's YT and sometimes the official channel or the summaries of the noobifier cos I ain't got the time anymore for Landos antics. The rest is cancer, just mindless zombies and haters.

ps.: the years-old internal demo scenes cut together, the 9 min that leaked was way more hype than anything shown this year. I want that but more and fresher. Is that too much to ask for once a year? really??

ps.ps: stop trying to tell me what I shouldn't be passionate about. I already got that covered, even got a ring to prove it.... 🍻
I get it, back when I finally bought in it felt like every quarter there was another cool LTI token, impressive concept ship, or both. Now, it feels like the last concept ship I went, "WOW!!! I WANT TO GET THAT SOMEDAY!!!" was the Kraken.
I have a gut feeling the reason for this is they've pretty much exhausted the 'low hanging fruit' and are now having to climb for the hard and time consuming to reach fruit, while leaning heavily into marketing to bring in new eyes (leaving us 'old eyes' in the lurch.)
 

Devil Dog Hog

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I get it, back when I finally bought in it felt like every quarter there was another cool LTI token, impressive concept ship, or both. Now, it feels like the last concept ship I went, "WOW!!! I WANT TO GET THAT SOMEDAY!!!" was the Kraken.
I have a gut feeling the reason for this is they've pretty much exhausted the 'low hanging fruit' and are now having to climb for the hard and time consuming to reach fruit, while leaning heavily into marketing to bring in new eyes (leaving us 'old eyes' in the lurch.)
You had me at "Low hanging fruit"
 

Sky Captain

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Thinking about Citizencon more, I'm surprised we didn't hear anything from Tony Z. It would have been interesting to see a report from him on development progress on the AI / economic model. And especially something from him on AI-driven NPC crew concepts to finally give that a design vs. just being talk. I guess this wasn't central to the 'Road to 4.0' theme of the show though?
 
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Deroth

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Thinking about Citizencon more, I'm surprised we didn't hear anything from Tony Z. It would have been interesting to see a report from him on development progress on the AI / economic model. And especially something from him on AI-driven NPC crew concepts to finally give that a design vs. just being talk. I guess this wasn't central to the 'Road to 4.0' theme of the show though?
Per the Progress Tracker (Deliverables) the economy reword is low priority with only the SST Team working partially on it with a targeted completion (of their current work) date of late June 2023.
With CIG's attitude towards the economy, specifically the industrial side of it, it is likely this will also get pushed back unless they see the Cargo System Refactor not only going largely untested but greatly lamented due to the overwhelming lack of incentive and the excessive deterrents to engage in those activities.
 
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