Cutter this, Cutter that

Shadow Reaper

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IMHO, if you want to compare ship ranges, best is look at the range with Civilian class A installed. Every ship has a different fuel efficiency and actual range is more a figure of merit than something reflecting the cost to refuel.

As to cost of starter ships, yeah. The Cutter is shockingly cheap. It’s basically free. That does not however mean the Avenger is no longer a starter ship. There is a nice spread now virtually every $5 to the next tier of starter! I doubt many players will care about $5 or $25. I think most players starting want to believe they have a leg up on whatever sort of play interests them most to start.

I’m convinced (as I’ve said before) that new players should hold off on ship combat since there’s quite a learning curve and perhaps camp on simpler skills like fps. You still need to fly, and should learn to run and hide, but learning to shoot back is a painful experience. For these reasons I still think the Titan and 300s, both 315 and 325; are better choices than the Cutter. The 300s can even run from Cutty Blues if you’re smuggling. IIRC, the Titan us not quite fast enough to do that.

For pure joy of piloting, I think the 300s make the best case for a starter, presuming you want a bed.
 

Thalstan

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I have
IMHO, if you want to compare ship ranges, best is look at the range with Civilian class A installed. Every ship has a different fuel efficiency and actual range is more a figure of merit than something reflecting the cost to refuel.

As to cost of starter ships, yeah. The Cutter is shockingly cheap. It’s basically free. That does not however mean the Avenger is no longer a starter ship. There is a nice spread now virtually every $5 to the next tier of starter! I doubt many players will care about $5 or $25. I think most players starting want to believe they have a leg up on whatever sort of play interests them most to start.

I’m convinced (as I’ve said before) that new players should hold off on ship combat since there’s quite a learning curve and perhaps camp on simpler skills like fps. You still need to fly, and should learn to run and hide, but learning to shoot back is a painful experience. For these reasons I still think the Titan and 300s, both 315 and 325; are better choices than the Cutter. The 300s can even run from Cutty Blues if you’re smuggling. IIRC, the Titan us not quite fast enough to do that.

For pure joy of piloting, I think the 300s make the best case for a starter, presuming you want a bed.
i have learned that no matter how much I love to drive my cars, no matter how much time and energy I spend on searching for the right one I will spend the next 10+ years bonding with, no matter how hard I try and explain just how well it drives, the fact is…some don’t get it.

No matter how much I explain how tonewoods affect the sound of a guitar, and how rosewood vs mahogany vs maple and jumbo vs dreadnaught vs slope shoulder dread vs parlor impacts how the guitar sounds…the fact is, 95 percent of the people out there can’t tell the difference.

The same can be said of ships. Most don’t care how tanky a ship is, or how maneuverable it is, because to them, a ship is a ship, is a ship. They care the most about what it can do for them. Haul a vehicle, cargo, allow them to bed log, etc. Most will be trying to escape, not right back. Most won’t do combat missions unless it’s the very lowest tier, and finally, most won’t be targeted my pirates unless they see you actively doing something that produces lucrative marterials.

Is it a great starter? No, but none of them are. It’s an ENTRY level ship. Designed to get you started in the game. Comparing it to T2 starters that cost more money isn’t the point. Compare it to the other T1 starters and I think you will find most comparisons to be favorable.
 

Brictoria

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I need to check on component sizes and the cutter's internal space, but if they can fit in the Cutter (now and\or once physicalised), I can see it being fitted out with a VK-00 each wipe, then used as a shuttle to head out and grab the upgrade components I want for other ships as\when required, rather than having to fly slower ships to get them upgraded, then return them to where I wanted them stationed.

Once Pyro releases, this wil become much more important if you need to travel long distances to get back to Stanton for the parts... If it can't fit them all in for a single run, it may still be quicker to do several trips with a Cutter than 1 with a slower ship (or grab components from various locations and move them to a central location for a larger ship to collect them from). As a starter, it will always be in the hangar ready to "play fetch", as you slowly accumulate more ships.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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…the fact is, 95 percent of the people out there can’t tell the difference.
I want to agree (spruce top dreadnaughts sound best! Hardwoods look prettier, but I toted a spruce topped 12 string around Europe for 2 years and can tell you there's nothing better for open air performances) but based upon dozens of notes I've seen online, many if not most practiced players note the superior handling of the 300 series ships. New players routinely comment on how well the 300s handle. This is not a thing to ignore when one is thinking of recommending a ship that handles like a garbage scow. There's no joy in that, and ultimately, joy is what gratifying gaming is all about.

I am not an Origin fanboy. I don't like the 100 nor 800 ships at all. I do however note the crazy good stealth of the 400i and the speed and handling of the 300s. I still don't know what to make of the exterior cargo loading of the 300s, nor if CIG has a hat trick planned for the 315 to carry an X1. So call me confused, but that's my filter. The 400i still masters speed, handling and stealth for its class and is the only ship of its size that can sneak. That's a huge, big deal for those who know what matters in exploration, etc. and you know that holo-projection-table on the 400 is all full of promise.

IF your newbie friend is running caves for cash, which is still the highest dollar/hour activity in the verse; they want a ship with an open ramp like the Titan they can run up into instead of a ship with a ladder. Sounds crazy but that's the way the metrics run for grinding. The Cutter is good for this but shitty at everything else getting back and forth to a cave. The Titan is a much better choice for grinding caves for cash for a newbie.
 
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Brictoria

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I want to agree (spruce top dreadnaughts sound best! Hardwoods look prettier, but conifers are where the mellow comes) but based upon dozens of notes I've seen online, many if not most practiced players note the superior handling of the 300 series ships. New players routinely comment on how well the 300s handle. This is not a thing to ignore when one is thinking of recommending a ship that handles like a garbage scow. There's no joy in that, and ultimately, joy is what gratifying gaming is all about.
You seem to be overlooking one thing here: The 300 series are not in any way starter ships...

To be a "starter" ship for a new player, it needs to be a ship which comes with a game package, and there is not a single game package available to new players which comes with a 300 series ship.

A new player isn't going to understand "upgrades", nor will they be likely to want to spend more than needed to "get into" the game - telling someone they need to buy X ship, but then spend more to instead change it to Y ship is both more likely to turn them away from the game rather than take it up, as well as to feed into the critism of the game related to the expensive ships people can buy, by pushing them into a more expensive ship and making them feel that this is a required element of the game.

It is true that other ships may be "better" in given areas of the game, but a starter ship isn't designed to be the ultimate ship, rather it is designed to simply allow a player to try various areas of the game and so decide for themselves what they want to do, and through aUEC (and occasional free rentals such as IAE) they can then come to their own conclusions as to the best ship to buy themselves, whether this should be through pledging more money, or simply by earning the cost through in-game activities...

This ship is designed for those who are looking for more of a "Serenity"\"Red Dwarf" gaming experience (minimal, if any, ship combat), rather than a "Star Wars" one (heavy ship combat), and they are possible the largest potential market, given most of those who are into ship combat would likely already have bought into the game and have no need for a starter ship.
 

Lorddarthvik

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I'm sorry but we simply disagree here. I have 4 friends who have started with the 315P on my recommendation.
And I bet we could find Testies who started with and Idris pack, and I know for a fact loads of ppl start with a Cutlass Black. That doesn't make em a starter ship.
A starter ship is what you get for "free" with your game package for 45bucks. Everything else is an optional upgrade and does not constitute a starter ship.
 

Bambooza

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Apart from the aesthetics which I agree this ship is keen on; what recommends this ship past the ability to carry some of the smaller vehicles, and is that really the key to a good starter?

Both the Titan and 300 series are much faster, much more maneuverable, have twice the shield, better guns and literally half the IR footprint. So I have to go to my most common suggestion--if pirates can't see you they can't bother you. This may seem like boring gameplay, but if your hold is full of smugglers goods, or even just nice loot from a cave or bunker, getting killed because you drive a Chevy van from the 80's is a bummer.

Just saying, I get why players like this thing, but I think if the pros here were to drive this ride for a week and get their asses killed repeatedly, they'd make better recommendations to newbies. Every player needs a strategy for coping with pirates. There may be more than the main three--run, gun or hide. Maybe you can fast talk your way out of situations, or maybe you'll just pay the toll. If surrender is what you recommend to new players, please be honest with them and note they can plan ahead to run, gun or hide with the proper pick of a starter ship.

IF. . .if for some reason you require to tote a vehicle around--say you want to mine--wouldn't the Nomad be an obviously superior choice to this?
It is understandable to not grasp how much a starter ship even this ugly duckling provides new players a great step into the game as well as over stating the importance of stealth.

Some things to keep in mind. Even in 3.17 the Stanton system is huge and while the player caps are lower then what is expected at beta it still gives players huge areas to disappear into. Even if I was constantly pinging in a kracken the chances of another player being close and seeing me outside the normal pos is astronomy small. So while yes the cutters signature is large for a ship of its status and size it really doesn't matter.

Players are expected to be in the minority of the ships in the vers. So there is going to be a lot of cutters and aurora and very few of them are going to be player controlled. And even still the cargo and ransom reward is going to be poor for a pirate to maintain their operation costs. On top of the fact there should and I expect starting areas with very high security. While a pirate might be able to kill a noob in a cutter they will only get one before doing time and hopefully enough of that and they will go elsewhere or give up on the activity.

I do not believe the 300 nor the titan have a suit locker. While at the moment physicalization is not fully in game the ship magic bag of holding will go away and you'll not be able to pilot in full combat gear. If you'll need a suit locker to change out of your flight suit.

So while I would not use this ship for combat or infiltration missions it's not a bad ship for exploring running currier missions and trying your hand at mining and salvage. You could even do missions like we got a glimpse of in Pyro last year.

I know you have a very specific play style and a game view limited to that play style but what CIG has been crafting us far broader than that. Your play style will be needed but it's foolish to think any ship that doesn't fall into that style has no worth.
 
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Bambooza

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And I bet we could find Testies who started with and Idris pack, and I know for a fact loads of ppl start with a Cutlass Black. That doesn't make em a starter ship.
A starter ship is what you get for "free" with your game package for 45bucks. Everything else is an optional upgrade and does not constitute a starter ship.
I feel sorry for anyone who tries to start after the last wipe before beta in a capital ship. The operating cost are going to be steep. Even using the c2 now in game after a wipe is a slow go and it's much faster to grab the freelancer to get some credits.
 

Vavrik

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I'm sorry but we simply disagree here. I have 4 friends who have started with the 315P on my recommendation.
In fact, @Brictoria is correct. The 300 series are not in the list of starter ships anymore - and it's been a bit since they were too. You can check this out on the RSI website.
You can upgrade to one, but starter ships they are not.

But starter ships are standalone ships that come with a game pack, and they don't need to be $45. They just need to come with a game pack.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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I think it's a bit anal to quibble over whether the Avenger and 300 are actually "starter ships". I seem to recall the vast majority of the players in this forum deciding the Titan was the best starter ship just a year or so ago and it has held that title for years. Players driving the Reliant series speak of them as "tier 2 starter ships" on a routine basis. Do we all need to get out the paddle and punish them now because it doesn't come with a game package?

I think I made my point. You don't have to agree and I don't need to agree with you. To each his own.
 

Thalstan

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Game package bundles (excluding concierge packs)
Mustang Alpha -T1 45
Aurora MR -T1
Pisces C8X T-2
CutterT-2
100i T-2
Avenger Titan T-2
Arrow T-3
Nomad T-3
Cutlass Black T-4
F7C Hornet T-4
Freelancer T-4
Connie Andromeda T-5

now, I have tried to place a tier on these as well. Each tier represents a pricepoint
t-1 is 45-55
T-2 is 60-75
T-3 is 75-95
T4 is 100-195
T-5 is 200+

So yes, the Titan is also a T2, but IIRC, it can’t fit a mining ground vehicle in the back. However, it is better than the Cutter at combat.

The 300 series is no longer considered a starter ship.

My recommendations for a starter. Pisces, Cutter, Avenger Titan, Cutlass Black, or Freelancer.

If I were to pick one, I would say the Cutter. My reasoning is that this gives their initial starter LTI, and if they decide to upgrade to a Freelancer or something else in the future, they can just upgrade their original ship instead of needing to buy a token, upgrading it, and now having two ships.
 
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