Duo Deck Hammerhead

[SullyQuindarius]

So from what they're saying, the HH seems to be a slow tank of a gunboat. I still love the design, but I am disappointed that if won't be able to do hit and run attacks. I wanted to use it as a team with the Polaris, running attacks on ships like the Idris or Javelin - Polaris strikes while the HH defends it from torps and fighters, then they both get the hell out of dodge.

Well, now either they're going to be unable to do this, since the HH was supposed to be nimbler than the Polaris, which was described as a blazing fast ship, or...or, the Hammerhead will still be nimbler than the Polaris. Meaning that the Polaris is gonna fly like a Starfarer. Pitch, yaw, etc - I don't mind that being a lil' slow, but these ships need to be faster. I'm thinking 150-160m/s without afterburner.

Or at least let them accelerate to afterburner speed pretty fast compared to Starfarers and whatnot.

 

[Radegast74]

WHAT WOULD YOU RATHER FIGHT?
a single Hammerhead-sized Argo MPUV or a 100 Argo-sized Hammerheads?

Mind. Blown.

 

[Sethious]

So from what they're saying, the HH seems to be a slow tank of a gunboat. I still love the design, but I am disappointed that if won't be able to do hit and run attacks. I wanted to use it as a team with the Polaris, running attacks on ships like the Idris or Javelin - Polaris strikes while the HH defends it from torps and fighters, then they both get the hell out of dodge.

Well, now either they're going to be unable to do this, since the HH was supposed to be nimbler than the Polaris, which was described as a blazing fast ship, or...or, the Hammerhead will still be nimbler than the Polaris. Meaning that the Polaris is gonna fly like a Starfarer. Pitch, yaw, etc - I don't mind that being a lil' slow, but these ships need to be faster. I'm thinking 150-160m/s without afterburner.

Or at least let them accelerate to afterburner speed pretty fast compared to Starfarers and whatnot.

I'm sure once you are able to customize more you can get some more speed out of these ships.

 

[Bambooza]

Its going to be interesting to see how the Polaris fits into the ship line up and the Hammerheads effect on fleet engagements. I personal am going to keep my Polaris as I like the idea of a strike capital ship and hope it plays that way.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Its going to be interesting to see how the Polaris fits into the ship line up and the Hammerheads effect on fleet engagements. I personal am going to keep my Polaris as I like the idea of a strike capital ship and hope it plays that way.

Just bear in mind, the Polaris is arguably not a cap ship. It's a Corvette, and the Corvette has always straddled the barrier of what makes a cap ship, or "ship of the line". According to most military theory, Corvettes are not cap ships. Given modern American parlance, the smallest cap ship is the Frigate (or at times in US history, a Destroyer.). If you put a Polaris up against an Idris or a Void Bomber, it will get its ass handed to it. The exception is if the Polaris can strike and avoid any counterstrike. It is not designed to take hits the way an Idris can. The difference is in hull armor and damage control. You should not expect to see much if any damage control on the Polaris, so it can't stay in a fight.

Vanduul designs are all more fragile than UEE military vessels, so the Void Bomber should come apart pretty quickly against an Idris, despite it will hit harder (just like their fighters.)

 

[Bambooza]

If you put a Polaris up against an Idris or a Void Bomber, it will get its ass handed to it

This is something that will either need to be asked of the development staff and/or tested once both are in game. It really does come down to how maneuverable the Polaris is compared to the Idris as I agree if the Idris can get its spine weapon lined up on a Polaris it would make quick work but if it can't then the Polaris will eat the Idris with its Torpedoes. (I would estimate 2 or 3 volleys would be enough).

 

[Shadow Reaper]

This is something that will either need to be asked of the development staff and/or tested once both are in game. It really does come down to how maneuverable the Polaris is compared to the Idris as I agree if the Idris can get its spine weapon lined up on a Polaris it would make quick work but if it can't then the Polaris will eat the Idris with its Torpedoes. (I would estimate 2 or 3 volleys would be enough).

I think that's right. This is really the key element of the Polaris, that is relies upon Torps to do what otherwise it could not.

We certainly need to see what radar ranges are like, but it appears at present, the torp ranges will be much greater than the spinal mounts, so if the Polaris can control the range of engagement, which is likely given it chooses the battlefield; it should be able to rain down damage with impunity. Even given the max torp range is inside the scan ability of an Idris to locate a Polaris, if the later can keep at ranges where the big guns on a cap ship can't come to bear, it can dominate an encounter. That takes some dicey captaining, and great crew skills, but it is a foreseeable possibility. Of course all this depends upon whatever the anti-torp ability is of any given ship. We know next to nothing about this at present.

OTOH, that's not how fleet engagements normally work. Normally ships of like speed close on each other and have at with guns from both sides. If you put a Polaris into an engagement as a picket, you should expect to lose it almost immediately; and this is what has traditionally happened when Corvettes are used in fleet engagements. This is in fact why most military analysts don't consider Corvettes to be cap ships. There is a huge amount of literature cocnerning this. It's basically if you are outgunned and need to win a battle, put the 'Vettes in to make up the difference, but expect to lose them. If you are thinking past a single battle, under no circumstances should you put them in. The Polaris breaks the mold that it may be able to go in if it stays out of range of the big guns.

 

[Bambooza]

So long as a Polaris doesn't go up against a Javelin it should handle itself remarkably well. It has the advantage over the Idris with the capital radar vs Idris large radar (I'm honestly surprised by this and expect it to change) so it should be able to detect and plan accordingly unless a Terrapin is working with the Idris.

For me if I was to plan an attack on a station then depending on its size and reinforcements would use as the center would be Javelins and Idris. If Polaris captains wanted to participate they would be used for flanking and engaging reinforcements but never as a front line ship.

On the attack against a convoy the Polaris seems to be in its element, as well as fast response to slow down the enemy until the larger ships can be brought in. Say we find the Driller then the Polaris strike force would make harassing attacks to slow fleet but wouldn't be expected to take it on. Like a shark it needs to move or it dies, unlike the Idris which can take some fire and shrug it off and is meant to focus fire down larger targets while supporting single seat ships.

Of course all of this can be for not if the Hammerheads ability to shot down torpedoes is to powerful as it would greatly shift game play tactics to just be Hammerheads and Polaris easy end game ships that can zerg anything big like a Driller while preventing the weakness of the Polaris to small bombers and fighters.

 

[Wolfy]

When was the Hammerhead supposed to be fast? Wasn't it always referred to as a fleet picket ship?

 

[Crymsan]

Its funny for me the hammerhead was always an in system patrol vessel versus pirates and such which it should be could at. If you imagine star wars fleet fights it also has an anti fighter role there. If those big ships all have huge weopons it will be a very soft target against such as would the polaris but supposedly the torps will hurt back. I changed from a polaris to hammerhead not because I think the polaris wont be good just because of the lower crew requirements. Big fleet battles sound awesome but will they be common?

Anyways its all conjecture based on them getting the game finished,,,.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I changed from a polaris to hammerhead not because I think the polaris wont be good just because of the lower crew requirements.

Certainly another big plus with this is the Hammerhead will be in game before the Polaris, so why not fly it first? There isn't really a legitimate choice until they're both in game.

 

[Bambooza]

Its funny for me the hammerhead was always an in system patrol vessel versus pirates and such which it should be could at. If you imagine star wars fleet fights it also has an anti fighter role there. If those big ships all have huge weopons it will be a very soft target against such as would the polaris but supposedly the torps will hurt back. I changed from a polaris to hammerhead not because I think the polaris wont be good just because of the lower crew requirements. Big fleet battles sound awesome but will they be common?

Anyways its all conjecture based on them getting the game finished,,,.

As far as I am aware the Hammerhead will always be in any fleet battle due to its ability to protect the larger ships from bomber attacks. Provide cover for friendly bombers and hide behind the larger ships. As it will be a soft target and in fact it will be one of the first targets given its significant role in providing defensive cover against bombers who if left alone would easily destroy the large capital ships.

In such engagements I would use the Polaris strike force to flank the large ships and attempt to disrupt and eliminate the Hammerheads. Once this is accomplished the the fighters and bombers can engage the enemy forces around their capital ships instead of having to hold back at the friendly capital ships.

I am not sure how exciting combat will be in a Hammerhead as its very existence will keep its targets away (PC players, NPC'c fleet engagements could easily be far more action packed for all), but it cannot be over stated how important its participation in any fleet is.

I am not sure how common big fleet battles will be against other players. I imagine they will be common against NPC mission's think of raid boss scenarios, I also know as the game matures players wealth will get to the point were boredom coupled with almost endless wealth will prompt them to be far more aggressive as we have witnessed multiple times in Eve where the costs are significantly higher then they will be in Star Citizen. Also with us being able to buy ships on LTI it could bring about this reality far sooner then games were the wealth and ships were the result of countless hours grinding.

 

[Bambooza]

Certainly another big plus with this is the Hammerhead will be in game before the Polaris, so why not fly it first? There isn't really a legitimate choice until they're both in game.

I hope the Hammerhead is the loaner for the capital ships like Idris, Polaris and Javelin instead of continuing to be the Starfarer.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

IIUC, the Idris, Hammerhead, and all the Vanguard variants are integral to SQ42, so they'll all be out by then.

 

[SullyQuindarius]

I want a Polaris in my fleet at some point as well. I'm gonna wait to see how it turns out for sure, but it seems like a fun ship to play. The problem is...when will it come out? I think they said it was gonna go into production after the 890J?

 

[Bambooza]

It really depends on if its in SQ42 or not.

 

[August]

At the end of the day unless COG sorts out a whole lot of networking and server-specific development, this is all moot.

50 people on a server. Or one polaris and it’s crew.

 

[Bambooza]

My thought on that is most ships will hardly have any players on them most positions will be taken over by AI. So while a ship like the Polaris and Idris can have 50 players on them at most I think these ships will have 5 players and lots of NPC's doing the more mundane roles.

 

[Wrinkle]

It really does depend on how effective AI in a HH turret does against torpedoes. Make it so it can handle one or two incoming torpedoes and then only a Polaris will make it fearful.

Can you shoot down torpedoes currently? Or is that something that's planned? I honestly didn't even think of that as a possibility.

 

[SullyQuindarius]

Can you shoot down torpedoes currently? Or is that something that's planned? I honestly didn't even think of that as a possibility.

Planned. They covered it in RTV, that's one of the HH's primary roles. Defending caps against torps.