Flight stick question

[BUTUZ]

I wouldnt never go back to keyboard and mouse. It's like trying to sew a button onto a thong with welding gloves on.

Try it out cheap - spend less than 100 bucks get a pair of T16000 or Logitech Extreme 3d pro and just have fun baby!!

 

[Starooqi]

TLDR: You absolutely want as much/many axes as you can afford. KB/M does NOT cut it for proper flying. Handheld controllers for consoles, KB/M for FPS, and sticks for flying. This is the way.

OK, long/full answer here from someone who has spent a LOT of time flying with a LOT of different configurations, but without going down the full Simpit rabbit hole:

1.) Low budget - A plain ol' Logitech Xtreme 3D is still just great. You won't get a whole lot of buttons, you'll still need to hit up the KB frequently, but even this $30 investment beats the pants off trying to point a ship with your mouse! Won't last forever, Amazon says I've purchased 4 of them apparently, and my first certainly was bought before the Zon branched out from just books. Still my go-to stick for Star Wars stuff like XWA or Squadrons where fewer buttons are needed:

https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-3D-Pro-Joystick-Windows/dp/B00009OY9U

2.) Low-Midrange - The Logitech X52 served me very well for a long time in Elite/SC, and my brother still uses his. Great point to dive into two-handed flying. Other contenders here are the cheaper TM T-Flight, though I find this one a bit TOO simplistic if you're bothering to go HOTAS. On the other end I think the X-56 is a bit too big of a price jump over the X52, and the T-16000M throttle was just plain to HUGE for my not-very-huge hands.

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-X52-Flight-Control-System/dp/B07QYQVQFS/

https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Saitek-Flight-Control-System/dp/B01LY285ZH

3.) High-Midrange - The most recent addition to my collection is the new Omnithrottle from VKB. I shied away from HOSAS until this baby came along, so that now I can FINALLY have translational axes on the LH that make SENSE! Twist-axis-for-Z-translation was just too weird for me to be willing to take the plunge, but the Omni fixes that problem, and so far I'm loving it! You're approaching the $400 mark now for a set of Gladiator stick + Omni, but they're good pieces and arguably worth the price:

VKB North America

We sell VKB Flight & Space Simulation Controllers for customers in the United States and Canada.

vkbcontrollers.com

4.) Top-of-the-line - For YEARS I lusted, and finally about two years ago I took the Virpil plunge. We're talking $800 territory now, but hey, that's still only half the cost of that new RTX 3080, right? The Virpil stuff is just knock-your-socks-off amazing and beautiful though. Everything is machined and anodized aluminum which won't only last forever but the attention to detail makes them as much pieces of art as they are controls. For airplane flight simulators the controls on the throttle will basically cover everything you need to fly a jetliner. For space simming, the Constellation stick has some really nice features like the flip down trigger and analog ministick which come in handy for all sorts of things. Not the sort of hardware you just buy without a plan and a certainty that you're going to use it a lot, but creates a nice feedback loop that just looking at it hanging off my desk makes me want to fire up a game right now just to use the thing!

VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle

★ Aircraft-grade Duralumin Mechanics ★ Adjustable Finger-Lift Detents ★ Dual Throttle Axes ★ Analogue Slew Stick ★ Programmable LED Lighting ★ VPC Contactless Digital Proximity Sensors

virpil-controls.eu

VPC Constellation ALPHA [R]

★ Right hand variant ★ Metal Flip Trigger and Brake Lever ★ Material - Enhanced PU Plastic Construction ★ Flip trigger and dual stage trigger can be activated simultaneously for additional stages ★ Digital Brake Lever Axis ★ All-Metal Twist Axis Mechanism with Lockout ★ Adjustable hand rest...

virpil-controls.eu

VPC WarBRD Base

★ Compact Design for Desktop Use ★ Dual-Cam Per Axis ★ Aircraft-Grade Duralumin Gimbal ★ Swappable Springs and Cams ★ Compatible With All VIRPIL Grips and Thrustmaster Grips

virpil-controls.eu

Amazing write-up. Thanks for your guidance. It gives me a good road map to pursue. I was thinking about Thurstmaster T16000Ms because I am planning on HOSAS setup. Can I use two Logitech Xtreme 3Ds to get the same effect? It looks like right hand only. Does it have a left hand version?

With Thrustmasters I wont have to rely on KB as much but it is a little bit more money. That may be the way to go.

 

[Richard Bong]

TLDR: You absolutely want as much/many axes as you can afford. KB/M does NOT cut it for proper flying. Handheld controllers for consoles, KB/M for FPS, and sticks for flying. This is the way.
3.) High-Midrange - The most recent addition to my collection is the new Omnithrottle from VKB. I shied away from HOSAS until this baby came along, so that now I can FINALLY have translational axes on the LH that make SENSE! Twist-axis-for-Z-translation was just too weird for me to be willing to take the plunge, but the Omni fixes that problem, and so far I'm loving it! You're approaching the $400 mark now for a set of Gladiator stick + Omni, but they're good pieces and arguably worth the price:

VKB North America

We sell VKB Flight & Space Simulation Controllers for customers in the United States and Canada.

vkbcontrollers.com

OK, now that looks interesting. I'm not sure I could get used to the angle there with the button location though.

Wouldn't that still center if you release pressure?

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

As @vahadar says, mouse would be always more precise than stick

I both agree and disagree with this. By that I mean yes mouse is more precise for fine movements, fingertips are better than biceps and all that. But on the other hand, mouse control gets poor when something needs a continual RATE input, as it's hard to keep moving your hand at the same speed for long, and then you start to run out of room! Sticks however are easy to hold in one position which then 'fixes' that rate. I.E. imagine trying to use a mouse as a throttle, lol! I also like how sticks self-center, which a mouse doesn't. Still, I'm sure HOMAS can be great, but this one probably comes down to a matter of preference.

Can I use two Logitech Xtreme 3Ds to get the same effect? It looks like right hand only. Does it have a left hand version?

While no there isn't a LH variant, it's simplistic enough I'm pretty sure you could make it work comfortably. The 'thumb' rest just becomes an index finger rest and you probably can't use that thumb button on the left, but pretty minor sacrifices.

OK, now that looks interesting. I'm not sure I could get used to the angle there with the button location though.
Wouldn't that still center if you release pressure?

I personally don't fine the button position weird; it's really the same grip as a 'regular' stick after all so moving your thumb around seems natural to me. The angle makes a HUGE difference though for changing that twist action to a nice up/down motion

A final disclosure, if you were to ask whether I've invested more in SC ships or flight controllers, I can't honestly give you an immediate answer; it would take a spreadsheet and a good hour with a beer to work out I expect. . . XD

 

[Raven_King]

TLDR: You absolutely want as much/many axes as you can afford.

3.) High-Midrange -[...] the new Omnithrottle from VKB. [...]

4.) Top-of-the-line

Sorry for the very selective quoting - that was a great post. Agree - more axes is better, your ship has six flight control axes, and having more for e.g. mining laser intensity or view zoom is a bonus.

Re the Omnithrottle, that looks cool for VKB owners. I have a pair, but don't use them because I also have Virpil Alphas.

Speaking of which, Virpil also have this now: VIRPIL Controls - VPC Flightstick Z-Extension (virpil-controls.eu)

I have one on both sticks. It's fantastic for the left stick (all three left stick main axes are mapped to translation in BuzZz_Killer's setup which I use), and I rather like it for the right stick too (orientation - roll, pitch and yaw), though I don't think it's as beneficial on the right stick. Very comfortable hand position, buttons are as easy to reach and feel as natural as before, barely took any time to adapt to the new position. I'd strongly recommend getting one if you have Virpil sticks, and gently recommend getting two.

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

Speaking of which, Virpil also have this now: VIRPIL Controls - VPC Flightstick Z-Extension (virpil-controls.eu)

Yep, I saw that, and might eventually go that route, but when I was first considering trying out HOSAS the $175 for the VKB was more palatable for 'experimenting' than the E200 base + E200 grip + E50 extension required to double-down on Virpil. I'm going to give it ~6 months to make sure I'm sold on it, and THEN I'll probably spring for the upgrade. I do so love that Virpil hardware!
In some ways though, I do still miss some of the peripheral controls from the Virpil throttle. The toggle switches and that big 'flaps' axis for mining laser power is so awesome!