Hull A promotional material and cargo box sizes

[FZD]

With the MISC Hull A promotional material, we once again see a lot of interesting cargo boxes that aren't in the game yet.
I used to always think there'd be like 3 different box sizes, and then that'd be that. Like we'd have the "small" 1 SCU boxes, "Medium" that's either 12 or 16 SCUs but we never knew exactly which and in different concepts it was always not the one you saw last time, and then "large" that's simply double the medium. I can't recall exactly where I got the idea it'd be just 3 though, probably from some age old 10 for the chairman or some old video about about cargo mechanics.

However, looking at this new material, there are definitely more than just 3 different sizes
Like take a look at this:

There's 1x1x1 SCU box, there's 1x1x2 SCU tank, and 2x2x2 box.
And I mean, sure, we've seen 1x1x2 boxes a couple times before so it's not like this is the first time, but it's precisely because this is not the first time that I'm now considering this to be more than "just concept art."

And then we have

That's Hull A with 64/4=16=2x2x4 SCU boxes, and what seems to be Hull C with 144 possibly 32 SCU boxes (for a total of 4608 SCU, exactly as advertised.)

So in total, just on this one page we've seen
1x1x1
1x1x2
2x2x2
2x2x4
2x2x8
So, that's at least more than the 3 I thought there'd be. Which is pretty cool, and there seems to be a sort of "doubling logic" there, though 1x2x2 is missing.
And we've also regularly seen 2x2x3 boxes in various contexts as well, heck, Hull A was originally supposed to carry 4 of those for the advertised 48 SCU. Though I suppose that would've broken the symmetry so they went with 2x2x4 instead. Doesn't think that necessarily means 2x2x3 is abandoned, just that Hull A looks cooler with 2x2x4 and won't trigger any OCDs. Or maybe it does.

Fully expecting to see 4x4x8 and 4x4x16 SCU boxes with Hull D and E btw. Even with 4x4x16, that'd still be 384 boxes on the E. Freaking insane.

Okey, I've now completely forgotten where I was going with this. Err... Beer!

 

[vahadar]

This is a very interesting writing @FZD
This confirms to me that the Hull D and E are going to be awesome ships, and real cargo monsters. Probably same cargo as once advertised.

 

[Thalstan]

We also know from the RAFT that there will be a 32 SCU sided container as it will be able to move 3 of those for 96 SCU of cargo.

 

[Bambooza]

Don't forget that it's all going to be physicalized and will require specialized equipment to move the larger boxes. In fact, they did say that some ports will just not have the facilities to handle the larger boxes and load times will be based upon the port's facilities and cargo placement. IE if you show up in a freelancer and the 3 boxes are buried then it's going to take longer than if they were located at the back near the ramp.

 

[maynard]

... IE if you show up in a freelancer and the 3 boxes are buried then it's going to take longer than if they were located at the back near the ramp.

Will I be able to bribe the dockside NPCs to jump the line?

will 'physicality' take human nature into account?

 

[CosmicTrader]

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Bambooza]

Will I be able to bribe the dockside NPCs to jump the line?

will 'physicality' take human nature into account?

Good question. I do remember them saying you could pay more for more dock workers to speed up the process but no clue if you could bribe or jump the line. I have a feeling that your crew could also be used to load and unload your cargo. But I have a feeling cargo management and location will be part of the mini-game intended to be one of the tasks done while in quantum travel. Either by moving cargo around inside your ship while traveling or by planning where everything will be stored at the next stop for quick unload/load at each port much like current cargo ships do.

 

[Brictoria]

Don't forget that it's all going to be physicalized and will require specialized equipment to move the larger boxes. In fact, they did say that some ports will just not have the facilities to handle the larger boxes and load times will be based upon the port's facilities and cargo placement. IE if you show up in a freelancer and the 3 boxes are buried then it's going to take longer than if they were located at the back near the ramp.

That will also make clearing "customs" interesting with a fully laden C2, if there are questionable items buried in the cargo bay (Even more so if the cargo consists solely of 1SCU boxes). Maybe the NPC guards will decide hunting for it isn't worth the effort. "Waste" may also have a use to help cover\bury the more valuable items, or try to mask the contraband from scanners.

Similarly, will "Pirates" want to waste the time required to remove all the low value boxes to get to the "treasure", particularly if there is the possibility that some form of "law enforcement"\"bounty hunter"\other (player\NPC) Pirate may show up at any time to stop them? Of course, a Hull A/B (or even a Nomad) could be useful to Pirates, as they would be able to simply tractor beam the boxes onto the plates\rear deck, rather than having to navigate them into a ship's internal cargo bay, speeding their "work" (Hull C was stated to not take boxes smaller than the 32 SCU (RAFT) ones, from memory, so wouldn't be useful in that role).

One area that may also become "interesting" will be purchasing (and potentially selling) of cargo at outposts - will there be some form of security for the boxes of cargo there, or will people be able to grab boxes from someone else's cargo that is being loaded\unloaded, if the owner isn't watching over them?

I'm also curious as to whether persistant hangars of some variety will come along with the cargo refactor, with cargo being automatically delivered to\collected from there when buying\selling, or if we'll have to pay and\or wait for some form of loading\unloading of ships to occur in the background - The time required to manually load some ships will greatly exceed the "allotted time to depart" from a "public"\shared hangar after all. I'm also hoping I can bribe refineries to package orders in 32 SCU crates for my RAFT to transport, rather than in 1 SCU boxes that will take a lot longer to load into ships\32 SCU crates.

 

[Bambooza]

That will also make clearing "customs" interesting with a fully laden C2, if there are questionable items buried in the cargo bay (Even more so if the cargo consists solely of 1SCU boxes). Maybe the NPC guards will decide hunting for it isn't worth the effort. "Waste" may also have a use to help cover\bury the more valuable items, or try to mask the contraband from scanners.

Similarly, will "Pirates" want to waste the time required to remove all the low value boxes to get to the "treasure", particularly if there is the possibility that some form of "law enforcement"\"bounty hunter"\other (player\NPC) Pirate may show up at any time to stop them? Of course, a Hull A/B (or even a Nomad) could be useful to Pirates, as they would be able to simply tractor beam the boxes onto the plates\rear deck, rather than having to navigate them into a ship's internal cargo bay, speeding their "work" (Hull C was stated to not take boxes smaller than the 32 SCU (RAFT) ones, from memory, so wouldn't be useful in that role).

One area that may also become "interesting" will be purchasing (and potentially selling) of cargo at outposts - will there be some form of security for the boxes of cargo there, or will people be able to grab boxes from someone else's cargo that is being loaded\unloaded, if the owner isn't watching over them?

I'm also curious as to whether persistant hangars of some variety will come along with the cargo refactor, with cargo being automatically delivered to\collected from there when buying\selling, or if we'll have to pay and\or wait for some form of loading\unloading of ships to occur in the background - The time required to manually load some ships will greatly exceed the "allotted time to depart" from a "public"\shared hangar after all. I'm also hoping I can bribe refineries to package orders in 32 SCU crates for my RAFT to transport, rather than in 1 SCU boxes that will take a lot longer to load into ships\32 SCU crates.

They did say that with the refactor that the instant load/unload will go away but not sure if that just means it will have a timer or if they will be animating the operation as fully realized. While I am hoping for the latter I fully anticipate the first option being the implementation. In time your great grandkids will be able to enjoy watching dock works load and unload your cargo.

Ah, the possible dynamic game play with traders hiding a few shielded boxes amongst their cargo for contraband or highly valuable goods. I am also sure your reputation will play a part in how far the security checkpoints spend scanning your ship.

 

[Brictoria]

They did say that with the refactor that the instant load/unload will go away but not sure if that just means it will have a timer or if they will be animating the operation as fully realized. While I am hoping for the latter I fully anticipate the first option being the implementation. In time your great grandkids will be able to enjoy watching dock works load and unload your cargo.

Ah, the possible dynamic game play with traders hiding a few shielded boxes amongst their cargo for contraband or highly valuable goods. I am also sure your reputation will play a part in how far the security checkpoints spend scanning your ship.

That reputation bit has me concerned - Until persistant\personal hangars arrive, I'm at risk of getting a bad reputation at any location with a hangar as a result of "littering" due to parts of my ship not clearing the entrance\exit when the rest of the ship does and getting left behind as a result.

 

[Richard Bong]

I also thought we would have a very lited number of sizes.
How are, for example, the Hull-C+ going to load up with cargo from the surface, or offload to the surface.

The small boxes have to be loaded up into the big boxes, in space?

The big boxes have to be broken down for delivery?

That seems really inefficeint.

 

[Richard Bong]

They did say that with the refactor that the instant load/unload will go away but not sure if that just means it will have a timer or if they will be animating the operation as fully realized. While I am hoping for the latter I fully anticipate the first option being the implementation. In time your great grandkids will be able to enjoy watching dock works load and unload your cargo.

Ah, the possible dynamic game play with traders hiding a few shielded boxes amongst their cargo for contraband or highly valuable goods. I am also sure your reputation will play a part in how far the security checkpoints spend scanning your ship.

I seriously doubt the loading and unloading will be visual any time soon. NPC can't cross the interface between the ground and a ship. Or even from one area to the next.

 

[Richard Bong]

That will also make clearing "customs" interesting with a fully laden C2, if there are questionable items buried in the cargo bay (Even more so if the cargo consists solely of 1SCU boxes). Maybe the NPC guards will decide hunting for it isn't worth the effort. "Waste" may also have a use to help cover\bury the more valuable items, or try to mask the contraband from scanners.

Similarly, will "Pirates" want to waste the time required to remove all the low value boxes to get to the "treasure", particularly if there is the possibility that some form of "law enforcement"\"bounty hunter"\other (player\NPC) Pirate may show up at any time to stop them? Of course, a Hull A/B (or even a Nomad) could be useful to Pirates, as they would be able to simply tractor beam the boxes onto the plates\rear deck, rather than having to navigate them into a ship's internal cargo bay, speeding their "work" (Hull C was stated to not take boxes smaller than the 32 SCU (RAFT) ones, from memory, so wouldn't be useful in that role).

One area that may also become "interesting" will be purchasing (and potentially selling) of cargo at outposts - will there be some form of security for the boxes of cargo there, or will people be able to grab boxes from someone else's cargo that is being loaded\unloaded, if the owner isn't watching over them?

I'm also curious as to whether persistant hangars of some variety will come along with the cargo refactor, with cargo being automatically delivered to\collected from there when buying\selling, or if we'll have to pay and\or wait for some form of loading\unloading of ships to occur in the background - The time required to manually load some ships will greatly exceed the "allotted time to depart" from a "public"\shared hangar after all. I'm also hoping I can bribe refineries to package orders in 32 SCU crates for my RAFT to transport, rather than in 1 SCU boxes that will take a lot longer to load into ships\32 SCU crates.

They built cargo decks for a reason. They have also been stacking cargo boxes all over ground locations, especially Loreville, for quite a while.

Yes, you may want to transfer some cargo between your ships in your private hangar, but that feels more like the exception instead of the rule.

Your idea of smuggling is much more realistic than a standard "secret compartment" in a ship, and more inline with how I figured most smuggling should happen.

The MSR is a "go fast boat" so should be running instead of allowing customs aboard and hoping they don't look behind the panel that is on every MSR.

 

[Brictoria]

I also thought we would have a very lited number of sizes.
How are, for example, the Hull-C+ going to load up with cargo from the surface, or offload to the surface.

The small boxes have to be loaded up into the big boxes, in space?

The big boxes have to be broken down for delivery?

That seems really inefficeint.

We already have the RAFT which will be able to handle moving those larger boxes between the surface and space. There will also be the SRV and probably one or more unannounced ships which will have the ability to help load\unload those boxes from the larger Hull models and\or transport the boxes between a planet surface and orbit, so the larger crates will be able to be filled either in space or on the surface.

The whole process wil probably be similar to what exists in the current time - Large cargo ships (HULL series C+) transport bulk cargo between major "ports". This is then unloaded and transported by smaller vessels (RAFT, etc.) to "warehouses" where containers are opened and the contents distributed to the final recipients. There will also be the option to revert back to earlier times (pre shipping containers) where smaller\random sized boxes were loaded onto smaller ships (Hull series A/B, or other cargo transporters) which could be delvered to smaller "ports", but which required much more time to load/unload than the shipping containers[1] (One reason for their widespread use today - another being that cargo was less likely to go missing during loading\unloading).

Using larger containers is actually considerably more efficient in a "real world" scenario\simulation, but is harder to justify while we only have a single system in the game. Once more systems come in, ships like the Hull D/E would theoretically become the equivalent of the modern container ship, stopping at only one or 2 places in a system before jumping to the next. The Hull C would take the cargo from these places and ship to each planet (Equivalent to a freight train), with RAFTs and other ships distributing the content of the large containers to the individual outposts on the planet surface (this would be enhanced if it was possible to "quantum" between surafce outposts without needing to break atmosphere in between), which is likely what the devs have in mind, replacing the current "seller-buyer" direct shipping which we have now with a more "segmented" transportation system: It will still be "solo-able", but will be much faster and more efficient with a group of people.

[1] For those interested: https://incodocs.com/blog/history-of-shipping-container-1956-world-trade/

 

[Brictoria]

They built cargo decks for a reason. They have also been stacking cargo boxes all over ground locations, especially Loreville, for quite a while.

Yes, you may want to transfer some cargo between your ships in your private hangar, but that feels more like the exception instead of the rule.

Your idea of smuggling is much more realistic than a standard "secret compartment" in a ship, and more inline with how I figured most smuggling should happen.

The MSR is a "go fast boat" so should be running instead of allowing customs aboard and hoping they don't look behind the panel that is on every MSR.

Things may have changed, but back in August last year they stated the plan was that you would purchase cargo as happens now, and it would be delivered to your (persistant) hangar where you call the physical cargo via a "freight elevator", then load it onto the ship from there.

See around 30:12 into the following:

As to the Constelation Taurus, MSR, etc. the "shielded"\"smuggling" areas may simply not be included in areas which are scanned when security decide to stop you for a ship scan\players scan the ship, requiring "visual" and electronic inspection of cargo to be defeated in different ways - Security let you through because they can't detect any prohibited items\"pirates" ignore you as they don't detect any valuable items (shielded"\"smuggling" compartment) compared to NPC (security\pirates\?) or players gaining access to your cargo area (along with secure space as well) and looking for something valuable to remove from the ship.

If this happens, then there may be a reason (need?) to re-arrange cargo after leaving somewhere (where it would be subject to visual inspection\other players accessing ship) from the main area into the "secure" area (to hide it from scanners while flying) - Then "pirates" need to decide whether it is worth trying to access a partially\fully laden ship which is carrying a low-medium value cargo, to see if there is something valuable "hidden" from scanning\detection, or to wait for another victim who has obvious\detectable valuable cargo... Bury valuable cargo under cheap items when loading (in case another player somehow gains access to the ship\"secret" area), then rearrange cargo so that valuable items are moved to "secure" space once in the air (and, if pirates appear to be intending to board, try to return\bury cargo again before they gain entry (and after they scan), so that the "secure" space is empty when\if they look there).

 

[Richard Bong]

We already have the RAFT which will be able to handle moving those larger boxes between the surface and space. There will also be the SRV and probably one or more unannounced ships which will have the ability to help load\unload those boxes from the larger Hull models and\or transport the boxes between a planet surface and orbit, so the larger crates will be able to be filled either in space or on the surface.

The whole process wil probably be similar to what exists in the current time - Large cargo ships (HULL series C+) transport bulk cargo between major "ports". This is then unloaded and transported by smaller vessels (RAFT, etc.) to "warehouses" where containers are opened and the contents distributed to the final recipients. There will also be the option to revert back to earlier times (pre shipping containers) where smaller\random sized boxes were loaded onto smaller ships (Hull series A/B, or other cargo transporters) which could be delvered to smaller "ports", but which required much more time to load/unload than the shipping containers[1] (One reason for their widespread use today - another being that cargo was less likely to go missing during loading\unloading).

Using larger containers is actually considerably more efficient in a "real world" scenario\simulation, but is harder to justify while we only have a single system in the game. Once more systems come in, ships like the Hull D/E would theoretically become the equivalent of the modern container ship, stopping at only one or 2 places in a system before jumping to the next. The Hull C would take the cargo from these places and ship to each planet (Equivalent to a freight train), with RAFTs and other ships distributing the content of the large containers to the individual outposts on the planet surface (this would be enhanced if it was possible to "quantum" between surafce outposts without needing to break atmosphere in between), which is likely what the devs have in mind, replacing the current "seller-buyer" direct shipping which we have now with a more "segmented" transportation system: It will still be "solo-able", but will be much faster and more efficient with a group of people.

[1] For those interested: https://incodocs.com/blog/history-of-shipping-container-1956-world-trade/

Cargo, not grain, coal, etc., today, is moved in one of two sizes of containers. The big ships are carrying the same size containers that go on a truck. Ships and railcars were specifically designed to carry the containers that can be moved by truck.

If there were fewer sizes more ships would be able to do the job. For example the Hull-A would be a craft to do that job, especially with its limited range.

Which is why I expected fewer sizes.

 

[Richard Bong]

Things may have changed, but back in August last year they stated the plan was that you would purchase cargo as happens now, and it would be delivered to your (persistant) hangar where you call the physical cargo via a "freight elevator", then load it onto the ship from there.

See around 30:12 into the following:

As to the Constelation Taurus, MSR, etc. the "shielded"\"smuggling" areas may simply not be included in areas which are scanned when security decide to stop you for a ship scan\players scan the ship, requiring "visual" and electronic inspection of cargo to be defeated in different ways - Security let you through because they can't detect any prohibited items\"pirates" ignore you as they don't detect any valuable items (shielded"\"smuggling" compartment) compared to NPC (security\pirates\?) or players gaining access to your cargo area (along with secure space as well) and looking for something valuable to remove from the ship.

If this happens, then there may be a reason (need?) to re-arrange cargo after leaving somewhere (where it would be subject to visual inspection\other players accessing ship) from the main area into the "secure" area (to hide it from scanners while flying) - Then "pirates" need to decide whether it is worth trying to access a partially\fully laden ship which is carrying a low-medium value cargo, to see if there is something valuable "hidden" from scanning\detection, or to wait for another victim who has obvious\detectable valuable cargo... Bury valuable cargo under cheap items when loading (in case another player somehow gains access to the ship\"secret" area), then rearrange cargo so that valuable items are moved to "secure" space once in the air (and, if pirates appear to be intending to board, try to return\bury cargo again before they gain entry (and after they scan), so that the "secure" space is empty when\if they look there).

I renember them saying that about the personal hangar. I didn't think it made much sense then either.

We get a limited number of personal persistent hangars, iirc that is 1. You are buying and selling cargo at places other than your home port.
Some ships, like the Hull-C can't even get to your hangar, loaded. Hence the reason that feels, to me, more the exception than the rule.

There are two basic ways to smuggle. Be common and everyday so you get overlooked. Avoid customs and be fast enough so you are gone before anyone knows you were ever there.

The idea of a factory installed standard "smuggling compartment" is silly. Shielded areas draw attention, which is something you don't want to do as a smuggler.