I'm torn between a Redeemer and a Vanguard =/

[TheDubya]

I put something up in the discord but I know we've got names active on here that I don't see there so I'mma ask here too. Question TESTies! I have the redeemer in my hangar and I know it’s slotted for a Q3 release. Im looking for a beefy combat ship I can roll around solo-ish with. I know the redeemer needs at least 3. My original goal was to wait till q3 and ccu to the sentinel or harbringer. I’m afraid the price of the redeemer is going to shoot past those ships though. Should I sit on the redeemer or just go ahead and grab the vanguard? What would you do?!

Thanks for your time folks,

Tac

 

[vahadar]

I would say take both, but that is not what you are asking ;)

Without a crew or blades (AI turrets), the firepower of the Redeemer will be limited (well it is still 2 front S4, quite a punch). To be honest it can be an issue during alpha, if you struggle finding ppl to crew your ship, but once the game is live there will be crew npc and/or AI turrets so you can still run the ship solo with full firepower. With that in mind, the Redeemer will be my choice over the Vanguard for pure DPS, no second thought.

But the Vanguard has modularity. Sure it lacks the raw dps of the Redeemer, but you can (later) make your own custom Vanguard, taking parts from a Harbinger, a Sentinel, a Warden as you see fit. Right now this is the Battle Upgrade Kit (BUK) system, not ingame yet, and soon(tm) to be replaced by some combo module system.
You'll also need one crew/blade to use the turret of the Vanguard.

There are also many other aspects to consider. For exemple, the Vanguard series are very enduring ships (QT fuel), will the Redeemer also be a long range gunship? That we do not know yet.

So with the current state of the game, if you wanna run a solo-ish beefy combat ship, i would take the Vanguard (Sentinel or Harbinger). Keep the Redeemer in buy-back for later just in case, when we will know more about the Redeemer and managing turrets in Alpha ;)

 

[TheDubya]

So to pledge for a Vanguard, there's no reason to go any higher than the Hoplite if they're all going to have some form of modularity, yeah? I believe the Redeemer is sold as a long range gunship, but I can't confirm that as the info is all over the place and scattered through a few years. There were living quarters for 3 at one point.

 

[vahadar]

The Redeemer has been a lot of things, like a combat dropship, but with the introduction of the Hoplite, and the evolving concepts, this feature was scrapped last Invictus. Here i'm waiting for its release to make my mind.

The Hoplite was not supposed to benefit from the initial BUK system (only Warden, Sentinel, Harbinger), but it seems it will in the end, according to some info released after (that i do not have source). That still needs confirmation from CIG, as they tend to change their mind often heh.

 

[Sayora]

I have both, but I do really like my Harbinger, it's the closest thing I will get to a dogfighter. It's robust, has firepower and lots of range and speed. I use it for a lot of just general running around.

Just my 2 creds

 

[TheDubya]

Yeah, I'm also kinda thinking the Redeemer is going to be a centerpiece for the CitizenCon and I found a 'leak' showing more assets from the ship being added in game. I reckon I'll sit on it temporarily just to see what it turns into. I think the Vanguard is the way ahead though!

 

[BUTUZ]

Personally I'd wait for it, maybe get a CCU ready. The vanguard is a great solo ship and when we get AI blades and you can slave the top turret you got a fair bit of firepower in a small manoeuvrable tough ship there.

The redeemer is gonna be much less solo friendly by the look of it, and probably handle worse. Not really a fighter as such.

 

[Vavrik]

I don't have much to contribute that hasn't been mentioned except to say: The Vanguard Sentinel is what brought me into the game. I couldn't afford it so I started a series of upgrades to get it during the last sale.

 

[TheDubya]

I don't have much to contribute that hasn't been mentioned except to say: The Vanguard Sentinel is what brought me into the game. I couldn't afford it so I started a series of upgrades to get it during the last sale.

The Vanguards are definitely the coolest looking combat ships and I want either the Sent or Harb. I know as soon as I upgrade out of the Redeemer it'll go right up to the perfect price though!

 

[DirectorGunner]

Should I sit on the redeemer or just go ahead and grab the vanguard? What would you do?!

Patience Daniel-san, I would wait until the redeemer is flight-ready and in the PU or have both to make a decision on which to melt after that time.

 

[TheDubya]

Patience Daniel-san, I would wait until the redeemer is flight-ready and in the PU or have both to make a decision on which to melt after that time.

I’ve got $25 left in store credit, I’ll wait till the sale hits (hopefully it’s flight ready or we know more by then) and if it looks like imma need 5 to run it, I’ll grab that sentinel then, maybe for cheaper. Thanks for all the input folks! I really appreciate it

 

[Shadow Reaper]

. . .there's no reason to go any higher than the Hoplite if they're all going to have some form of modularity, yeah?

Only the Sentinel has the stealth frame. Given it is the stealthiest ship in game, if you want to explore that dynamic, buy the Sentinel and the Hoppy and Harby modules.

 

[Cugino83]

So to pledge for a Vanguard, there's no reason to go any higher than the Hoplite if they're all going to have some form of modularity, yeah? I believe the Redeemer is sold as a long range gunship, but I can't confirm that as the info is all over the place and scattered through a few years. There were living quarters for 3 at one point.

First of all, if you are aminig for a Vanguard aim for the Sentinel: right now is the chassies with the lower signature... and by far, plus it's suppose to have an "holographic cockpit"... and if the Tavarin ship are a prevew of what CIG intend for it It will be a very unique feature to have.

Concerning your doubt I second the "get them both" idea: assuming that the Redeemer will stay as it was presented last time, they are very different ship.
The Vanguard is n heavy fighter with a twist based on the module you'll use.
The Redeemer it appar to be a gunship that is focused on providing lot of firepower in a small package, good for supporting ground troop or too have an eavy escort too a convoy.

BTW, the Vangards are available tto be purchase in-game, so you can delay the decision, byu some Vanguard in game to try them out, wait for the Redeemer to came into game and then decide.
Worst case scenario: just melt the redeemer and byu a Vanguard with store credit.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The Vanguards are definitely the coolest looking combat ships and I want either the Sent or Harb. I know as soon as I upgrade out of the Redeemer it'll go right up to the perfect price though!

The Redeemer should go up about $45, but that could be a year from now. In the meantime, enjoy what you fly.

Look at the raw power of this thing, from 10 km to point blank range: https://www.erkul.games/loadout/m39KfNNt

and now look at how invisible it can be while sending big missiles from the void. That's quieter than the tiny Razor, EX, Ghost Hornet, Sabre, etc. and you will be able to do this with S5 torps or 6 marines in tow. The Prowler is not near this quiet.

#DPSCalculator

Star Citizen tools for DPS, damage, power and cooling simulations including an up to date ships and components database

www.erkul.games

 

[TheDubya]

The Redeemer should go up about $45, but that could be a year from now. In the meantime, enjoy what you fly.

Look at the raw power of this thing, from 10 km to point blank range: https://www.erkul.games/loadout/m39KfNNt

and now look at how invisible it can be while sending big missiles from the void. That's quieter than the tiny Razor, EX, Ghost Hornet, Sabre, etc. and you will be able to do this with S5 torps or 6 marines in tow. The Prowler is not near this quiet.

#DPSCalculator

Star Citizen tools for DPS, damage, power and cooling simulations including an up to date ships and components database

www.erkul.games

$45 would be the worst! That would price it above both so no CCU for me xD. Those numbers seem impressive, though a lot of it is Latin to me! I really like the stealth aspect of it, that's definitely an addition to the cool factor, long range and sneaky? Yes, pls.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The Redeemer is never going to be stealthy, and totally not useful for a solo pilot. It was designed for small to medium teams (small only if they do as rumored and remove the rear squad seating--which would suck.)

You don't lose your investment if you swap to Sentinel, you just don't gain from the earlier investment; and while you wait the Vanguards could increase in price again. They certainly will when their modules come in game and modularity is scheduled for next patch. That might just be the Cat, or it could be the completion of the entire Vanguard line.

 

[vahadar]

The Redeemer should go up about $45, but that could be a year from now. In the meantime, enjoy what you fly.

Look at the raw power of this thing, from 10 km to point blank range: https://www.erkul.games/loadout/m39KfNNt

and now look at how invisible it can be while sending big missiles from the void. That's quieter than the tiny Razor, EX, Ghost Hornet, Sabre, etc. and you will be able to do this with S5 torps or 6 marines in tow. The Prowler is not near this quiet.

#DPSCalculator

Star Citizen tools for DPS, damage, power and cooling simulations including an up to date ships and components database

www.erkul.games

Are we talking about the same kind of quiet? :) This loadout is like 78k EM overclocked / 52k not OC, probably can be spotted miles away, when a Ghost can be just above 1k EM, same for Sabre, nothing powered off.
I see it drops to 5k EM with everything powered off exept the coolers and the powerplant, that is not that low (well it is interesting for shooting missiles at distance yes but that is all).

I was surprised when you told above that the Sentinel is the stealthiest ship in game, i think i'm missin something here...

As for Sukorans, you can get them only if you have an alien ship (Banu, Prowler). We do not know yet what will be their availability when the game is released (CIG stated alien ship wont be that common for sale), and where to buy them. So i would not base a build on those before game is gold. This wont be something you can make from the start or easily, unless you own the ship already to get the Sukoran.

 

[vahadar]

It was designed for small to medium teams (small only if they do as rumored and remove the rear squad seating--which would suck.)

It is now removed, it is no longer a gunship/dropship, only a gunship. CIG posted something about that shortly after last Invictus (in a video i remember), i need to find source again.

and while you wait the Vanguards could increase in price again. They certainly will when their modules come in game and modularity is scheduled for next patch. That might just be the Cat, or it could be the completion of the entire Vanguard line.

I doubt there will be any price jump. The ships are released already, and they never did a price jump for a released ship before except for some starters at some point (like 5$).

 

[Sirus7264]

I put something up in the discord but I know we've got names active on here that I don't see there so I'mma ask here too. Question TESTies! I have the redeemer in my hangar and I know it’s slotted for a Q3 release. Im looking for a beefy combat ship I can roll around solo-ish with. I know the redeemer needs at least 3. My original goal was to wait till q3 and ccu to the sentinel or harbringer. I’m afraid the price of the redeemer is going to shoot past those ships though. Should I sit on the redeemer or just go ahead and grab the vanguard? What would you do?!

Thanks for your time folks,

Tac

The big thing to remember about the vanguard vs the redeemer is vanguard is 90% missiles/torpedo and range the redeemer is up close personal super heavy damage with guns. Now with that daily costs for the redeemer will be cheaper depending on your loadout than missiles/torpedo any day. missiles/torpedo though are expensive but they are hard to miss and they pack a punch when they hit from a long range. I like to be close and personal and i am a money grubber so i keep costs to a minimal anytime i can.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Well, they both carry about the same missile load. IIRC, the Redeemer carries 20 S2 and the Vanguard 16S2. Not sure how many launchers the Redeemer has. Could be it can only launch 2 at a time. Could be at times the Vanguard has the missile advantage and it can carry S3 missiles. I don't think the Redeemer can do that, and they haven't updated the ships page so it would take ages to find what they plan.

The Vanguard is a multi-role platform, modeled after the P-61 Black Widow radar equipped Night Fighter, and F-111 Aardvark fighter-bomber. To get the most out of it you'll need 2-3 players, but it can be handled with just 1. The Redeemer really needs three players to take advantage of the guns. It is more akin to the AC-130 gunships. Expect it to need more power, glow brighter on sensors, but have perhaps a third shield. I think it doubtful it will be stealth capable. Many ships are not. I would not be surprised if it is faster in space than the Vanguard but handles poorly in air. Same manufacturer, so we're expecting different trade-offs. The Redeemer does not have a good airframe. I'm guessing they are building them to be primarily Intended for the Interceptor and patrol roles, like the Skipray Blastboat--more than a match for most fighters. Hope for a third medium shield if they go that route.

The Redeemer was my favorite ship for a long time until I realized that we really want to optimize firepower, maneuverability, defense, etc. all over crew. Think about three guys in a Redeemer against three guys each in their own Vanguard. . .and well, the Redeemer looses. Badly.

Think about a small team doing a terrestrial incursion, and the stealth in the Sentinel frame with the bang of the Hoppy mod wins easily over any other ship yet proposed.

Maybe, if you don't care about stealth, and you know you have three guys, and you want to take just one ship for some reason, maybe the Redeemer is a better option. Only Maybe.

Plus if you want group play, there will be many Sentinels with Harby mods teaming for long range stealth strikes. You'll always be able to find solo or group gameplay killing Vanduul. It's hard to see it now, but long range is going to be a huge advantage. For solo bounty work, probably nothing beats the Sentinel with the EMP if you want them alive, and with the 3XS5 when it doesn't matter.