Item Recovery

Sky Captain

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CIG finally came out with word on the planned item recovery system.


Here's the basics of Tier 0 implementation for now:

With the initial rollout of Item Recovery in Alpha 4.1 (internally referred to as T0), you will respawn with the exact gear you had equipped at the time of death. Emphasis on the term "equipped", as this is different than what you may have had in your inventory. This includes equipped weapons, armor, magazines, and medpens, ensuring that your core loadout is retained. However, items stored in your inventory, such as your backpack or other containers, will remain on your corpse, making them available for looting or retrieval.
 

Lorddarthvik

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Thank you for the link and excerpt!
I wasn't going to read through it but as so many questions popped into my head I just had to. I highly suggest others READ THE WHOLE PLAN as well before you start shouting that CIG has gone crazy! They have, but....

I see where this is going, and it might work out in the end with enough changes and refinemnt, but I don't like a lot about this current plan.
Frankly, I don't see why the current loot-em-all system isn't good enough. The problems lie elsewhere...

T0 is dumb:
- if it's to help with griefing for the short term, it won't, the faster you're out the safe zone the faster you will get griefed again. They only win with this.
- It's a bit more convenient but also hinders consensual PVP gameplay. Being unable to loot enemy weapons and armor will lead to frustrating situations. (example you can't just grab another gun while yours is running low. this works in a game where ammo is just ammo, not here where you got per-gun-type ammo.)
- hella confusing to new players why they can and can't loot certain items

T2 "final" proposed implementation is REALLY dumb:
- itemization in SC kinda sucks already, this will totally and utterly devalue what's left of it...
Most items carry no real gameplay value outside of their looks over other similar items. If you played long enough you know this is a fact.
Gun, P4AR dropped by the first NPC you kill. All you actually really need. EVER. Add a sight and silencer if you suck at FPS.
Armor, whichever has the color scheme you like and can attach at least a medium backpack. The rest don't matter.

T2 unbricking looted items will lose their look, and revert to default! WHY??
That's like 90% of the reason to kill someone in the game! Because they have a nice shiny "other than mine" colored variant of something!
I can buy everything necessary for the gameplay loops in like 10 mins after spawning in, cos everything really necessary is available at the shops. Thus a lot of the value in the loot is just how it looks, that it's different! Loosing that means a lot of stuff looses a huge chunk of it's perceived value.

- unbricking fully destroys the rarity system
If you want to give someone a railgun which will be a rare weapon at some point I presume, you can just ask them to shoot and loot you, you forgive them, they unbrick the railgun, you get yours back from a terminal, and there, you have halved the rarity of said item. It won't be free but it will make it super easy.

- this whole brick-my-gun from the other side of the galaxy by the push of a button on a terminal, or by a "dead man switch" timer feels very forced for gameplay reasons, and immersion breaking. Things like this, the "suddenly we have antigrav landing gears on the Nomad" and such breaks up the coherence of the games universe for me.

All of the above makes Piracy even less worth it. You can't use the item without paying, so the monetary incentive is gone, you can't have the exact possibly rare variant so the item looses a significant chunk of it's value, and you can't have it as a trophy cos it will just be a default skin version.

I do agree that the griefing is at stupid levels, but it's not pirates doing it! Pirates kill you to loot you, to make money, to get the booty, to get the trophies, to show off the fancy rare variants ! That is FINE!
(they can occasionally go on a killing spree without concern for loot, that's understandable, but also rather dumb of them. You don't want to kill the cow you trying to milk again and again)

Griefers only kill you to kill you, again and again to satisfy their impulse to make you suffer outside of your control. It's two very different things, and none of the above helps stop it, or helps with getting to a worthwhile "bad guy" gameplay loop that CIG seemingly wants to have!
 

Mudhawk

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So on the upside, you gotta buy that Pembroke backpack only once and never have to worry about getting a new one never again.
On the downside, if I come across a nicely equipped player body (whose demise happened way prior to my arrival, honest) I can loot Jack?
Kinda makes me wonder why they bothered with a completely physicalised Inventory when they turn around and destroy that Illusion.
Might as well have implemented a Glamour system like any other MMO.
WYSI-(not)-WYG is the way to go!
 

Richard Bong

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To be fair, if you shoot someone up their gear will also be shot up so in many cases shouldn't be useful.
Also, I don't know about you guys but dying, for any reason, and having to go to Arccorp, then to the Stanton-Pyro Station, then to Everus Harbor just to get Yellow and Black Heavy ADP Armor is a stupid time sink for the sake of being a time sink.
 
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Sky Captain

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They are on the right track with this. There needs to be *some* system to allow item recovery for basic issues like crashes. That they plan to implement this for other situations like character death is logical and a good thing IMHO. Sure they need to hone the system so it provides opportunities for both characters recovering assets and those looking to make economic gain off of that, but that will come. The disappointing part is that they are only at the Tier 0 stage. This is something they should have been working on in the background for a long time. But maybe they've waited while other subsystems were developed so that they didn't end up with too much technical debt to deal with for an item recovery system. Given that, I'll withhold final judgement until a Tier 2 release.
 
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Richard Bong

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They are on the right track with this. There needs to be *some* system to allow item recovery for basic issues like crashes. That they plan to implement this for other situations like character death is logical and a good thing IMHO. Sure they need to hone the system so it provides opportunities for both characters recovering assets and those looking to make economic gain off of that, but as that will come. The disappointing part is that they are only at the Tier 0 stage. This is something they should have been working on in the background for a long time. But maybe they've waited while other subsystems were developed so that they didn't end up with too much technical debt to deal with for an item recovery system. Given that, I'll withhold final judgement until a Tier 2 release.
More likely they didn't know how they wanted to implement the Item recovery they've been promising for 3+ years and just slapped this together. Too many people (myself included) just melting FPS gear they bought made marketing sit up and take notice.
 

NomadicHavoc

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Several content creators are super upset about this as they feel it will break the crafting profession as once you have your favorite grade 3-5 crafted gear or ship, you’ll never want or need to craft anything else ever again. I don’t know about that, but I can appreciate the fact that players may want to have a crafting business where you buy goods from them as they have that elusive blueprint that few others have. They are reacting to seeing their endless profit margins be severely stifled.

But, you should be able to get back items you’ve grinded to craft or paid for. CIG said their plan is to be able to craft items/ships up to 3-5 levels I think. So imagine grinding forever to craft a level 3 pistol, armor set, main weapon, and level 5 ship only to lose it all the 1st time using it. I’d personally never bother to grind to craft shit if I could lose it so easily. Why bother with mining, farming, or salvaging for the purpose of crafting? That is game breaking.

That is, unless crafting is super cheap and easy to acquire materials for. This might be the best option as it keeps those in the crafting profession happy; maintains a level of risk for lost items; and keeps people mining, farming, and salvaging as there would be a constant high demand for those goods. But, if crafting needs to be such a high frequency event it has to be super convenient to do or it will just seem like a never ending time suck.

Some content creators argue that there‘s no risk if you can respawn in your ship with all your gear and be back in the battle within moments.

I partially agree with this. Maybe you should only be able to respawn in level 1 med beds. You can still respawn with all your stuff…or have the stuff available on a timer if needed. Plus, nobody should be able to repawn in a ship/vehicle as it makes ship boarding near impossible if they can instantaneously replenish their fallen dead. The Endeavor, or any future capital class medical dedicated ship, perhaps should be the only exception to this rule as it should be the only ship with level 1 med beds. You’d still have to be shuttled back to the battle so it’s not an instantaneous return to the fight and gives capital ships more glorious purpose for fleet battles and large scale incursions. Not even future guild owned space stations should have level 1 med beds for the same reason.
 
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Sky Captain

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Several content creators are super upset about this as .... you’ll never want or need to craft anything else ever again.
Good comment. And indeed, a common concern expressed by crafters in every online game where this same issue has come up.

IMHO it boils down to what kind of game the majority of players want to play. Star Citizen ... or ... Crafter Citizen?

Maybe if that is 'Craft-Beer' Citizen that would be ok. Otherwise...

My hunch is that the vast majority of SC players want space / ship / planetary action foremost. Crafting comes second. If that is the case, then SC's game systems need to be built to enable players to have their head in space action game play 80% of the time. Crafting then needs to be built to --support-- that. Not be the impediment to it.

If crafting becomes a requirement for every player all the time - like every player needing to buy new gear from crafters or crafted it themselves EVERY time they died many deaths - then everyone would need to focus on crafting 80% of their time instead of space action gaming. And then we'd have a game that a majority of players haven't backed.

Clearly some balance is needed in SC economy. So it will be interesting to see where CIG lands with the upcoming Tier 1 and Tier 2 implementations of this new item system.
 

Richard Bong

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Several content creators are super upset about this as they feel it will break the crafting profession as once you have your favorite grade 3-5 crafted gear or ship, you’ll never want or need to craft anything else ever again. I don’t know about that, but I can appreciate the fact that players may want to have a crafting business where you buy goods from them as they have that elusive blueprint that few others have. They are reacting to seeing their endless profit margins be severely stifled.

But, you should be able to get back items you’ve grinded to craft or paid for. CIG said their plan is to be able to craft items/ships up to 3-5 levels I think. So imagine grinding forever to craft a level 3 pistol, armor set, main weapon, and level 5 ship only to lose it all the 1st time using it. I’d personally never bother to grind to craft shit if I could lose it so easily. Why bother with mining, farming, or salvaging for the purpose of crafting? That is game breaking.

That is, unless crafting is super cheap and easy to acquire materials for. This might be the best option as it keeps those in the crafting profession happy; maintains a level of risk for lost items; and keeps people mining, farming, and salvaging as there would be a constant high demand for those goods. But, if crafting needs to be such a high frequency event it has to be super convenient to do or it will just seem like a never ending time suck.

Some content creators argue that there‘s no risk if you can respawn in your ship with all your gear and be back in the battle within moments.

I partially agree with this. Maybe you should only be able to respawn in level 1 med beds. You can still respawn with all your stuff…or have the stuff available on a timer if needed. Plus, nobody should be able to repawn in a ship/vehicle as it makes ship boarding near impossible if they can instantaneously replenish their fallen dead. The Endeavor, or any future capital class medical dedicated ship, perhaps should be the only exception to this rule as it should be the only ship with level 1 med beds. You’d still have to be shuttled back to the battle so it’s not an instantaneous return to the fight and gives capital ships more glorious purpose for fleet battles and large scale incursions. Not even future guild owned space stations should have level 1 med beds for the same reason.
Base crap is just crap. Recovering them doesn't hurt anything.
Insurance on gear is supposed to be a thing.
There was never supposed to be that much of a profit margin in crafting as that is game breaking.
 
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Duckforceone

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i'm a crafter / builder....

and i'm not worried at all.... this means i will actually wear stuff around and not look like i just respawned in no gear all the time...

i don't care if i won't make millions reselling stuff again and again because of a shitty lose everything system...

i just want to be able to make the best gear for my friends and guildies.... get them equipped and have them wear it...... (and not having to re-craft it all the time)
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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I'm pleased to hear about this. I like my stuff and when falling off the Orison platform into the depths which as a founding member of the Orison Diving Club I do regularly, loosing my subscriber gear sucked as I couldn't get it back - no one looted it as the bod is inaccessible and I can't go loot it myself as the bod is irretrievable and no shop sells it.

I'll give this new mechanic a try but if it ends up not being what I thought it was I'll go back to running around in my pants. Perhaps next Triggerfish Day they'll bring out an invisible armour set and on that day anyone in their undies is invincible? SOMEONE CALL CHRIS AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN!
 

Mudhawk

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Well at least I will wake up after another Test-Ride ending in a spectacular fashion in my favorite yellow and black pyjamas.
No more blue tablecloth covering my privates.
THAT is something to look forward to, right?

Also, i just tried to imagine the reactions of players in one of the popular MMOs these days IF they'd loose all their Legendaries on a Raid wipe.
Ah...!
So that's what the inside of a developer looks like...

In the long run I'd like to see that insurance system implemented.
Because it makes the most sense immersion-wise.

You die, you loose your stuff.
You got an insurance? You get replacements for some of your stuff.
You're in an Org?
Standard issue armor at the ready.
Get up soldier!
Back into the fight you maggot!!
Sir! Yes Sir! Bossman Sir! :o7:
 
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