opinion, will the M2 Hercules be worth buying? i bought the upgrade but haven't applied it yet

Richard Bong

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Heres the problem with the M2 if you have a Carrack, theres nothing you can do with an M2 that you cant do with a Carrack.

With what John said about potential future modules, and maybe being able to fit one that can carry vehicles up to Ballista size, then there is absolute no point in owning an M2 if you already own a Carrack.

The C2 and A2 are different prospects, as the C2 has nearly 200 SCU more than a Carrack and the A2 is the top tier ground assualt/drop ship.
This!
 
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Grimbli

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Let's not forget the Hercules series is specifically built as a sort of landing zone drop ship for planets. The Carrack is built more for space travel. Those VTOL thrusters will allow you to come in much hotter than a Carrack will. Resupplying a warzone is something the Hercules can do that the Carrack would be apprehensive to perform.

Carrack is built as an exploration ship and as such will have a ton more fuel to work with. It's more of a long distance hauler, where the Hercules is meant for shorter trips. I thought about getting a C2 in addition to my A2 simply to use it for transporting goods from a planet surface to a station or ship in orbit or vice versa. You get a Hull D up to a station and something has to bring those goods planetside.
 

Grimbli

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For a more specific scenario, let's take Rock Raiders, TEST's premiere mining operation. They land on a planet with dozens of Moles, Prospectors, Rocs, and they build a storage warehouse with a Pioneer to fill up with thousands of SCU of ore. How do you get massive quantities from the surface up to that Hull E waiting in orbit? A small operation of C2s could make huge dents in that. I think it'd be the perfect ship for those kinds of situations.

Although personally, I think I decided on a BMM to carry large amounts of cargo from a surface to orbit. Not sure if it'll fly as well as a C2 since it's much bigger and heavier, but I love the style points!
 

Cugino83

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For a more specific scenario, let's take Rock Raiders, TEST's premiere mining operation. They land on a planet with dozens of Moles, Prospectors, Rocs, and they build a storage warehouse with a Pioneer to fill up with thousands of SCU of ore. How do you get massive quantities from the surface up to that Hull E waiting in orbit? A small operation of C2s could make huge dents in that. I think it'd be the perfect ship for those kinds of situations.

Although personally, I think I decided on a BMM to carry large amounts of cargo from a surface to orbit. Not sure if it'll fly as well as a C2 since it's much bigger and heavier, but I love the style points!
I like the scenario... but the last sentance have a flaw in it.
The BMM main focus is to be an errand trading post, limite the use to just work as a cargo ferry will be a wast of potential especially considered that it will likely be the size of an Idris so not the first ship that came into my mind when I think on multiple surface-to-orbit travels.

Different story if the BMM will operate in support of a salvage operation since once it has retrive the valuable goodies (personal armor and weapons, ship components, cargo etc...) from the salvage team can frealy fly away to sell it without needing furter support.
In this second case if you have a Kraken Privateer it will be evev better since it cann carry around his own salvage team while roaming around selling stuff.
 

Thugari

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For a more specific scenario, let's take Rock Raiders, TEST's premiere mining operation. They land on a planet with dozens of Moles, Prospectors, Rocs, and they build a storage warehouse with a Pioneer to fill up with thousands of SCU of ore. How do you get massive quantities from the surface up to that Hull E waiting in orbit? A small operation of C2s could make huge dents in that. I think it'd be the perfect ship for those kinds of situations.

Although personally, I think I decided on a BMM to carry large amounts of cargo from a surface to orbit. Not sure if it'll fly as well as a C2 since it's much bigger and heavier, but I love the style points!
i like this idea
 
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atpbx

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Well not sure about the armor, but the M2 actuall add 4 more turret: two in the front with 2xS3 and two under the "wings" with 1xS4... basically trasforming the standard cargo liftter into a sort of "hot zone cleaner" similar to the Walkyrie... just way more bigger....


I don't think the Carrak will ever have the space to carry along a ballista: I don't have the specs and the exact mesure, but the (supposed) swappable modules feels either too short and too narrow to fit one. It may not seams but the Ballista is not only tall but also preatty a large and long vehicle.

Also in general don't limit the comparison of two ships to only one caracteristics of if: carrying capacity doesn't make two ship equivalent, there are a lots of aspect into every ship to be considered like, for example, the shape of the cargo grid (freelancer owner should know ....), the fuel efficiency, the general handling of the ship, the crew requirement, the internal amenity space, the eventual limited availability (right now we are able to purchase every ship via pladge, more or less, in the future that is not granted) and so on...
The vehicle pipeline director says it fits, so ill go with him in this instance.

But like you say, you have to take into accounts amenities etc, snd in this case, the carrack roundly beats out virtually everything else in the game.

I’ve got a C2 and an A2, and as ive got a Carrack, theres no point in me owning an M2.
 

Shadow Reaper

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What do you want to do with the M2?
i was considering for a small crew decent cargo hauler.
Heres the problem. . .theres nothing you can do with an M2 that you cant do with a Carrack.
I think you need to know better what you mean by "small crew".

Large (S3) series Q-Drives can haul large cargo across vast distances cheaper than smaller drives. How many players can you count on as crew, and how much cargo do you want to move, across how secure a space? Are you willing to stay in orbit and allow tenders to move cargo to the surface, or do you want the flexibility to fly point to point?

CIG is going to optimize the Hull series as the most efficient haulers. Look in detail at what that means. "Small crew" means a Hull C. Ask yourself whether that solution meets your real interests and needs. Hulls cannot defend themselves without escorts, but in many instances they won't need to. Hull Captains will therefore need to be expert in knowing when to hire escorts and when to trust to providence.
 
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Richard Bong

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I think you need to know better what you mean by "small crew".

Large (S3) series Q-Drives can haul large cargo across vast distances cheaper than smaller drives. How many players can you count on as crew, and how much cargo do you want to move, across how secure a space? Are you willing to stay in orbit and allow tenders to move cargo to the surface, or do you want the flexibility to fly point to point?

CIG is going to optimize the Hull series as the most efficient haulers. Look in detail at what that means. "Small crew" means a Hull C. Ask yourself whether that solution meets your real interests and needs. Hulls cannot defend themselves without escorts, but in many instances they won't need to. Hull Captains will therefore need to be expert in knowing when to hire escorts and when to trust to providence.
With the addition of point defense blades a Carrack that is just hauling cargo can get by with a crew of 2.
 
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Richard Bong

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Let's not forget the Hercules series is specifically built as a sort of landing zone drop ship for planets. The Carrack is built more for space travel. Those VTOL thrusters will allow you to come in much hotter than a Carrack will. Resupplying a warzone is something the Hercules can do that the Carrack would be apprehensive to perform.

Carrack is built as an exploration ship and as such will have a ton more fuel to work with. It's more of a long distance hauler, where the Hercules is meant for shorter trips. I thought about getting a C2 in addition to my A2 simply to use it for transporting goods from a planet surface to a station or ship in orbit or vice versa. You get a Hull D up to a station and something has to bring those goods planetside.
The Carrack is designed to land in areas where there has never been civilization. So rough field landing in no big deal.

With the bottom and side turrets it should also be very good at clearing landing zones.
 

Richard Bong

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I have a C2, as my plan is to use it as the Large cargo transport option in my fleet, so more about cargo then transporting tanks (but that's a nice bonus) so the M2 for me, is way overpriced to lose a bunch of SCU to gain one gun, some armor and be slower to boot. But that's my use case yours maybe different!

Especially now that the data miners have shown that the C2,M2, A2 all have the same component options (All 2xS3 Coolers, 2xS3 power plants, 2xS3 Shields)
According to the spec sheet, they also have 2 medium quantum fuel tanks. (Which should be only 2/3rds capacity of a large fuel tank.)
 

Grimbli

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The BMM main focus is to be an errand trading post
I'll grant you the BMM does have trading stalls to be a mobile merchant. But it does also have six times the carry capacity of a C2 or Carrack. So if a BMM is capable of landing and taking off a planet somewhat easily, it'll definitely be a contender for shipping to orbit.

But I'm not sure if any design specs have been released as to how it'll handle gravity. It is designed as a blockade runner, but it's hard to say if that's through a space bound blockade or if it's to take off from a planet and jump away.
 

BUTUZ

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I wanted cargo space first and foremost so the C2 was the way forward. Also happened to be much better value for money than the others. Win win!

Edit - I've got my C2 as an upgrade to my Cat so I can always melt and go back to the cat if needed. Can't see that happening C2 looks to be shaping up to be a lovely ship!
 

Thalstan

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I'll grant you the BMM does have trading stalls to be a mobile merchant. But it does also have six times the carry capacity of a C2 or Carrack. So if a BMM is capable of landing and taking off a planet somewhat easily, it'll definitely be a contender for shipping to orbit.

But I'm not sure if any design specs have been released as to how it'll handle gravity. It is designed as a blockade runner, but it's hard to say if that's through a space bound blockade or if it's to take off from a planet and jump away.
The BMM will either be completely revised or have another 500+ dollar increase to account for what it can do,
 
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Grimbli

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The BMM will either be completely revised or have another 500+ dollar increase to account for what it can do,
There was a pretty recent video of them talking about the BMM and that it had increased in size again to accommodate the original SCU size. And some concept arts made this thing look like a massive Capitol ship anyways. Like the Carrack would be dwarfed.

And I luckily got an upgrade path for less than the original $250 price. Plus it was upgraded from a ship that's part of an old exploration pack. The thing probably cost me sub $200.
 

Jolly_Green_Giant

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The Crusader M2 Hercules (nickname: "Mama Bird")[1] is a military protean vehicle transport that supports strategic lift and landing operations (i.e. Sword of Hope).[2] It is the UEE's premier tactical starlifter. The ship's potent combination of capacity, maneuverability, and durability make it the obvious choice in large-scale transport, and a robust weapons package assures your cargo, and crew, gets to where they're going in one piece.

It seems it stacks up against the carrack quite well, but might... might just outperform the carrack in some places. The carrack comes stock with industrial components, and I'd assume the M2 will come stock with military grade components. I believe it will be more maneuverable / efficient in atmosphere allowing you more options for infil / exfil ops and giving you more leeway when it comes to deciding how you will approach certain missions. I personally think it looks way cooler than a carrack, and if im going head on into a fight and want to spit out some tonks, i have the option of unloading from the front or rear whereas i think the carrack only has a ramp at the front of the ship.

Look at how the guns are pretty much on the belly, allowing you much better coverage of the ground if you are coming in hot. I don't think the carracks weapon suite has the same capabilities.

I have an A2 currently, and an M2 in buyback. I'm hoping since I have the A2, I'll get the M2 or C2 as a loaner and be able to decide if i want to bring it out of buyback.


I mean come on look how cool the thing looks.













 
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Bambooza

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Let's not forget the Hercules series is specifically built as a sort of landing zone drop ship for planets. The Carrack is built more for space travel. Those VTOL thrusters will allow you to come in much hotter than a Carrack will. Resupplying a warzone is something the Hercules can do that the Carrack would be apprehensive to perform.

Carrack is built as an exploration ship and as such will have a ton more fuel to work with. It's more of a long distance hauler, where the Hercules is meant for shorter trips. I thought about getting a C2 in addition to my A2 simply to use it for transporting goods from a planet surface to a station or ship in orbit or vice versa. You get a Hull D up to a station and something has to bring those goods planetside.
Great points. I agree that its looking like the Hercules will be far more maneuverable in atmosphere then any of the other cargo haulers. While the Caterpillar can fly in atmosphere it runs the risk of overheating its maneuvering thrusts. Especially if they continue with CIG's plan on adding cargo weight to the ship handling.

CIG is going to optimize the Hull series as the most efficient haulers. Look in detail at what that means. "Small crew" means a Hull C. Ask yourself whether that solution meets your real interests and needs. Hulls cannot defend themselves without escorts, but in many instances they won't need to. Hull Captains will therefore need to be expert in knowing when to hire escorts and when to trust to providence.
The only downside to the Hull C and above series is they cannot land with cargo so you will not be taking that cargo down onto any moon or planet surface. Which will be more the task of ships like the Freelancer and Hercules.

All of the cargo focused ships will have the same concern with pirates. I personally choose the C2 over the M2 as I felt the added guns and armor was not going to increase its survivability when faced with pirates, but it could be that the armor and guns allows for enough time to get away or allow for re enforcement's.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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I didn't say earlier, but feel someone should note--the Hull D and E are also 3-6 players, so "small crew". The big deal with those is the Cap class Q drive. It's going to take less fuel to move 40X as much cargo with a Hull D over a Carrack or Herc. So you really need to ask how interested are you in earning big bucks in transport. I think people are going to be surprised by the Hulls.
 
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Grimbli

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The only downside to the Hull C and above series is they cannot land with cargo so you will not be taking that cargo down onto any moon or planet surface. Which will be more the task of ships like the Freelancer and Hercules.
In defense of the Hull D/E, its been stated that you can box up certain ships into hauling boxes and carry them on those ships. So if you sacrifice some cargo space for a planetary transfer ship then you're perfectly fine going as a solo ship.

Most of them will fly with escorts or a caravan though, so one of those can shuttle cargo down to even uninhabited planets. Starfarer comes to mind.
 
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Bambooza

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In defense of the Hull D/E, its been stated that you can box up certain ships into hauling boxes and carry them on those ships. So if you sacrifice some cargo space for a planetary transfer ship then you're perfectly fine going as a solo ship.

Most of them will fly with escorts or a caravan though, so one of those can shuttle cargo down to even uninhabited planets. Starfarer comes to mind.
Starfarer does come to mind and it is suppose to be able to swap out the fuel pods for cargo pods, but I have to wonder how efficient it would be at that or would it be better to hire local talent to do the final leg if needed. I just know that each flight update makes the Starfarer more sluggish in atmosphere.

Its going to be interesting to see how much CIG differentiates the strengths and weaknesses of their ships and how that effects logistics.
 
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