Planning: Training Ops for 3.0

[Vindictive69]

As with everything in life, all plans are but a starting point. The Ad hoc missions such as salvage and retrieval will always be a roll of the dice on if you have the right set-up to fend off rivals. Those come down to whoever finds more value and is willing to commit the most resources. There will always come times when we wont have enough in the area of operations and thus cause a tactical withdrawal that hopefully we have well prepared to minimize loss of life and resources.
The other types of missions come down to recon and knowledge of the enemy.
How do i think we will do on first landfall missions? Well, i think unless we run into a very well organized group then we will do very well until rivals learn our standard operating procedures.. then it will become a battle of contingencies and adaptability i think. But only for the more organized groups. Once we know how certain groups operate and we spot them in the area then we can up the Op level to compensate.

 

[Accented]

Well.. personally I'd rather wait and see when and what we get under the Banner of 3.0... if we can't even have 100 people in a map without the server going full retard, then I don't see the point of such trainings. Same goes for equipment etc.


My strategy would be quite simple: Basically, I'd draw circles around the objective:

1. The widest circle would be where you use scout/recon craft.

2. The second widest would be a line of defense against enemy reinforcements to ensure local space superiority. Mainly consisting of Capital Ships, the Fighters they carry and Anti-Capital Ships (i.E. Eclipse).

3. The third widest would combine "Air Superiority, CAS and Ground Superiority" as IMO we have no ground-based forces which can hold a candle to Ships.

4. The smallest circle would be the "drop-zone" for actual ground forces.

5. Non-Combat Ships would operate between the 2nd and 3rd widest circles.

Using "circles" would allow people to "know their place" simply based on the distance to the reference point... while it's not a perfect way to set up position, it would at least prevent people from going astray.

The issue with circles is that at any given point in the circle, against a force which we do not overwhelmingly outnumber, our forces would experience a significant disadvantage. Essentially we are dividing ourselves for others to conquer.

A better solution would to have a far cordon of picket ships on system entry points, maybe even in neighbouring systems, and have three defense fleets: two early response fleets designed to hold and contain any incursions until the main fleet is present to hammer them down.

In the case of insufficient numbers, as is possible if it is an incursion fleet of our own prepping against a counterattack, the circle formation would also be not the best idea. In this case, chances are we will be dealing with an equal or greater force. Effective scouting actions will become paramount to stop the enemy from setting up an effective defense until reinforcements arrive or planetary actions are completed.

 

[I_MIKE_I]

The issue with circles is that at any given point in the circle, against a force which we do not overwhelmingly outnumber, our forces would experience a significant disadvantage. Essentially we are dividing ourselves for others to conquer.

A better solution would to have a far cordon of picket ships on system entry points, maybe even in neighbouring systems, and have three defense fleets: two early response fleets designed to hold and contain any incursions until the main fleet is present to hammer them down.

In the case of insufficient numbers, as is possible if it is an incursion fleet of our own prepping against a counterattack, the circle formation would also be not the best idea. In this case, chances are we will be dealing with an equal or greater force. Effective scouting actions will become paramount to stop the enemy from setting up an effective defense until reinforcements arrive or planetary actions are completed.

I don't see how circles would divide our forces... no matter from which direction the enemy would attack, the combat ships would have enough time to respond thanks to the scouts.

If you spread your forces to cover the System-entries - which CIG repreatedly stated will be random enough to prevent any kind of camping -, then anything coming in with comparable overall strenght would just steamroll right trough whatever interception you prepared, then spread a variety of ships to scout and intercept your supports and ultimatively beat the combat ships as their supply/repair chain is cut off and no reliable scouting could be present over this gigantic scale. Even worse, the enemy wouldn't even need to defeat the intercept-fleets, if they just get past them, they'd immediately have the advantage of being able to strike at will.

Also, your Idea doesn't cover the (Anti-) Ground Forces or the Support-Fleet at all.

 

[Printimus]

Good responses, all. How do you think landfall operations will work out?

The important thing is to account for this maxim: "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."

With that being said, is it not pointless to plan for these things?

 

[NKato]

With that being said, is it not pointless to plan for these things?

The idea is to have a plan, and execute the objectives of that plan. It just means adapting to achieve said objectives.

Say you have a small fleet and you need to capture something from an enemy base. But the plan gets super difficult when the enemy fields a numerically superior fleet, but you still need to achieve the objective.

Get it? Being able to adapt is one of the biggest elements of being a military power.

 

[Printimus]

The idea is to have a plan, and execute the objectives of that plan. It just means adapting to achieve said objectives.

Say you have a small fleet and you need to capture something from an enemy base. But the plan gets super difficult when the enemy fields a numerically superior fleet, but you still need to achieve the objective.

Get it? Being able to adapt is one of the biggest elements of being a military power.

Planning and adapting are two separate entities though. It's like ying and yang.

 

[Accented]

With that being said, is it not pointless to plan for these things?

"Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable"

- Eisenhower (probably, remember this quote from some game's loading screen)

 

[NKato]

"Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable"

- Eisenhower (probably, remember this quote from some game's loading screen)

The correct quote is:

In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

In short, having the ability to plan out and structure your operations is crucial to guaranteeing success, but requiring your forces to follow a plan closely, is a significant handicap because that limits your options in reacting to new developments.

Planning in particular helps set forth objectives, prepare the necessary orders for the appropriate personnel, among other things. A planner will identify an objective's necessities, what is available, and work accordingly with those things.

 

[Gneissnoggin]

I'm still confused...I thought we just blot out the sun with our Aroruas, crash... Err land end mass at target, grab the beer and either drink or fly off with said beer...

 

[Printimus]

"I drink and I know things." -dwarf from game of thrones.

 

[Grisha]

there are two options. I prefer the, option of not announcing our presence, instead we insert our landing force far away with a contingent of vehicles including Nox, Dragonflies, and Prowlers. these craft are all hover capable and will move in to quickly capture whatever position is enemy held. the main fighting and defensive force will then move in and secure air superiority. this plan avoids giving the enemy ground forces time to dig their heels in while we work on getting planetside. air superiority is important, but it's completely useless if the objective is to capture, not destroy.

 

[Accented]

there are two options. I prefer the, option of not announcing our presence, instead we insert our landing force far away with a contingent of vehicles including Nox, Dragonflies, and Prowlers. these craft are all hover capable and will move in to quickly capture whatever position is enemy held. the main fighting and defensive force will then move in and secure air superiority. this plan avoids giving the enemy ground forces time to dig their heels in while we work on getting planetside. air superiority is important, but it's completely useless if the objective is to capture, not destroy.

If we break atmo, we're basically announcing our presence. A coordinated head on shock drop with some orbital bombardment prior to touching down is the best option if surprise is the objective.

 

[FluffyVonRage]

If we break atmo, we're basically announcing our presence. A coordinated head on shock drop with some orbital bombardment prior to touching down is the best option if surprise is the objective.

An alternative is to break atmo near a frequented landing zone, then low level flight to near-horizon distance from the objective, so as to remain unseen.
Drop marines and land transport then wait till they're in a position to launch co-ordinated air/ground attack. Overwhelming and undetected :D

 

[Grisha]

An alternative is to break atmo near a frequented landing zone, then low level flight to near-horizon distance from the objective, so as to remain unseen.
Drop marines and land transport then wait till they're in a position to launch co-ordinated air/ground attack. Overwhelming and undetected :smile:

you don't even need a LZ if you are willing to land a hemisphere away so that they can't see your entry.

 

[BluePilote]

An alternative is to break atmo near a frequented landing zone, then low level flight to near-horizon distance from the objective, so as to remain unseen.
Drop marines and land transport then wait till they're in a position to launch co-ordinated air/ground attack. Overwhelming and undetected :smile:

Why no eclipse... connies and fighters will be good

 

[Black Sunder]

I feel many people here are forgetting the population limit that we have per instance atm until they figure out server meshing. It will probably be difficult to have more than 16(2 parties) per instance. You'll probably be fighting more AI opponents(at crash sites) than people. Add to that the vast expanses of the new moons and planet and you get the idea.

Take what we have NOW, double that, triple that, and then x10 that and it might cover half of the space we'll have to go over in 3.0 in an instance. This post has no point except to remind people that we're not starting off being able to field a lot of people in one area(8 man team being reasonable) because of game limitations.

 

[hardroc77]

I'll be available, if the damn family leaves me alone, for either Hoplite piloting as I have a loaner, ground deployment, air cover or what ever. Even though our in instance numbers will be small due to server limitations, this maybe beneficial for training. We can practice with what we are given in 3.0 similar to the Rock Raiders meet ups, Red Rover was a gas, and that will help us iron out the bugs we will surely have in communications and personnel assignment.

 

[Accented]

you don't even need a LZ if you are willing to land a hemisphere away so that they can't see your entry.

\o/ 40 hours of travel how fun!

Seriously though, what kind of an underfunded defense doesn't have orbital scouts.

 

[Pander]

Ill be available for (in order of preference) ground combat, drop ship pilot/ground support, crewing larger stuff, fighter pilot

I have a tonne of experience with communication during my paintball days (speedball -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T67X3wvuewY
)
Super fast and aggressive and perfect for the high ammo amounts laser rifles in the game have
In speedball when you don't have superiority you cross up and defend your team mates and allow them to walk into your cross hairs its a game of changing from attack to defend adapting and muscle memory

and overwatch both games i find you constantly have to adept to on the fly and work with teams

That being said i am not 100% into the full on military talk i just want to go there, win and have a good laugh while drinking booze

Squad - kegs of war?

• What specific objectives should be focused on for our first training op involving landfall? (Suggestions, Ideas, Etc)
  
  Take and hold - seems to me that most of the time we wont be retrieving stuff and this will be a more familiar situation as if we can take a facility or an idris that makes us money then we should keep it

• How will these objectives achieved? (State the basic strategy and tactics available in said strategy. Detailed stuff comes much later.)
  
  Get there and don't stop shooting keep there heads down with laser fire and then flank or walk them out of the area with heavies
  in one life games there is nothing more terrifying than someone with the advantage shooting at your peak points

• What assets, at a minimum, should be utilized in a landfall training op? Take into account what CIG will be releasing to us in 3.0 - the Ursa Rover, Dragonfly, and the Nox, as well as other ships.
  
  Connie and either two dragonflies or an ursa rover situation depending
  Super hornet for support
  Some form of identification for marking targets for our ground support ships for fly-bys
  
  This is what i would take at a minimum if the target didn't have time to prepare

• What methods of communications should be utilized? (Be sure to account for those who don't use microphones, or can't hear. Operations can succeed or fail on the actions of a single man, so this is fairly important.)
  
  This is a little difficult because verbal is the fastest and having to type in slows down the player the only things i can think of is if SC puts hand signals in? i don't think they will?
  
  Or speech to text options or vice versa for the player having trouble

• What procedures should be generally followed for achieving the following sub-objectives of a landfall operation?
  1. Superiority in general (its to broad a subject to plan for each sub category of superiority)
     Never plan to have it, when you don't have it fight for it before moving on and when you cant get it you change your strategy you pull back or push forward until you put yourself in a situation where you have it superiority IS winning
     
     In general you need to adapt to tip odds in your favor
     

 

[Crichten]

The problem with server limits and so on is that any good military ethos (Certainly UK, US and Canada) use a system of 3/1 and if you can only get a couple of people on the same server you're kinda screwed for any reasonable planning beyond personal skill improvement.