Pocket Carrier 3.0

[Shadow Reaper]

I keep taking stabs at how much play one might get using the Anvil Liberator as an escort carrier, able to sneak where ships like the Idris could not, sit down on a lonely asteroid and provide a mobile, secret base from which to harass and mutilate the evil Vanduul hoards. Long may they suffer, so say we all.

The Lib has 4 XS pads and an XXS pad. XS are 24m wide by 32m long. The champion deck fighter also known as the Alpha Wolf is 5.25m wide and 12m long. So 6 of them fit very easily on a single XS pad and if you squeeze them you can fit 10. It’s better to think in fighter “wings” of 6 though, so let’s do that a moment.

The Lib has just 2 beds. All the fighter pilots need beds. The Lib has an airlock, so you can dock a Retaliator to it for easy pilot transfers, and the Tally has 7 beds. So we can think in these simplified terms of a wing of six pilots supported by a Retaliator and bomber pilot for beds and torpedoes.

The Lib also has that XXS pad out front. A Mantis will fit. In fact, by squeezing the very generous deck space for each fighter just a little, you can fit a second Mantis. Now you have 2 Mantis, 4 wings with 4 bombers that each do about 2.5M damage should all their torps land. 10M damage total. You won’t be killing any Idris, but you can kill virtually anything smaller, including Perseus, Void Bombers, Polaris and maybe even the vaunted Vanduul Hunter.

You can deploy your forces across two thoroughfares close enough to reinforce each other should they pull too much ship from quantum space. You can reinforce other ships like the Polaris and make use of her 22M torp damage and now you really can take down Idris, and a whole lot more.

That’s max 30 ships (plus the Lib), 30 pilots and 30 beds. You could be combat effective with 1/4 that.

I like that this can be combat effective with just 1 wing operational and grow organically. Should make small group management much easier than say, crewing a Polaris.

I keep getting this all wrong so here’s my third attempt. The Eclipse bombers are gone. I think this is a much better equation. 4 wings equals winning. You think?

 

[Richard Bong]

Since Jump points all accommodate all sizes of ships, there isn't any place a Liberator can go that an Idris or Kraken can't go.

The Liberator has 2 XS Pads, 1 XXS/medium vehicle pad and 2, internal, medium vehicle pads. It doesn't have 4 XS pads.

XXS Pad or medium vehicle pad is for a Snub. The Arrow is either the largest ship that will fit or the smallest ship that won't. They are the vehicle pads at outposts, so that is the easiest way to measure. Stick within the outside edge. No, a Mantis doesn't fit.

AFAIK, XS pads don't exist in the verse, currently, but IIRC the three Idris pads are close (I think height is off.). Use the marks on the deck. If it doesn't fit within the Idris pads, it won't fit on a Liberator pad. Remember the Idris has space to either side of each of the pads, but the Liberator doesn't.

Now, as a further thought, CIG has said that carried mass will matter, which can be an additional limiter.

Volume wise, a C-5A Galaxy can carry 3 tanks, in fact they carried 3xM-60 tanks. However they can only carry 2xM1/M1A1 Tanks or one M-1A2 tank.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The size of the Liberator pads is hotly contested, but claims range from 24x32, to 32x36. Pics of the Hornet show it should fit inside so the doorway and pads are greater than 22. This implies all 5 pads are at least 24 wide and perhaps as much as 32. AI says 32m wide.

There is indeed space around the pads on the Lib, just as on the Idris, and significant storage and living space beyond that. The ship is 68m wide and 122 long. So it is not unreasonable that each of the 3 main deck pads, 2 interior and 1 exterior, are more than 30m long. Including surrounds, they could be 40m long.

Simplest parking is probably all fighters faced forward, 4 rows wide and 6 long. The first row can go outside. You might want to leave open deck space amidships between the cargo area on the main deck starboard, and the crew area port. Drop some bench seats, drink machines and crates of food to create a large common area for 30 pilots, and move the stuff aside to launch. Use this for mission briefing, then clear the deck. (Yes, you can purloin all this stuff from tram substations.)

We don’t know where the Liberator can go that the Idris can’t. We should suspect the Liberator’s S3 reactor has a much lower signature than the Idris. We just don’t have those details yet. Indeed, you can’t turn off the Idris’ shields, coolers, etc. in Erkul, so only owners really know how much its signature can be reduced. Common sense would dictate though that a ship based upon S3 components will be able to hide in an asteroid field or on a planet much more easily than a cap ship.

The Mantis is 17x30. 2 will easily fit on the 2 top pads.

Best we know, the Lib has 190m length deck space and the Idris, 200. They’re not that far apart. It’s the rest of the ship that’s mostly missing from the Lib. Indeed, the missing bits are what make the Lib enticing. You’d be horrified to abandon an Idris to pilot a fighter, whereas I feel no compunction against sending every player aboard a Liberator out on an attack. No one left behind means everyone is playing.

 

[Richard Bong]

The size of the Liberator pads is hotly contested, but claims range from 24x32, to 32x36. Pics of the Hornet show it should fit inside so the doorway and pads are greater than 22. This implies all 5 pads are at least 24 wide and perhaps as much as 32. AI says 32m wide.

There is indeed space around the pads on the Lib, just as on the Idris, and significant storage and living space beyond that. The ship is 68m wide and 122 long. So it is not unreasonable that each of the 3 main deck pads, 2 interior and 1 exterior, are more than 30m long. They could be 40m long.

The Mantis is 17x30. Odds are good the calf’s I made above are good. It may hang off the fore Pad, but not so much it won’t fit.

Best we know, the Lib has 190m length deck space and the Idris, 200. They’re not that far apart. It’s the rest of the ship that’s mostly missing from the Lib. Indeed, the missing bits are what make the Lib enticing. You’d be horrified to abandon an Idris to pilot a fighter, whereas I feel no compunction against sending every player aboard a Liberator out on an attack. No one left behind means everyone is playing.

The Interior pads are vehicle not ship pads. There is space on either side of the medium vehicle pads, that doesn't make them XS ship pads. (The roof is definitely too low for ship pads.)
The front pad is an XXS Pad, which my understanding is 12 x 16-17 x 6 m
The top pads are XS pads which are supposed to be 24 x 32 x 12 m
The two interior Pads are 12 x 16-17 x 6 m
(The ATLAS platform is 17 m long but is supposed to fit on a medium vehicle pad and they are supposed to be the same as a XXS Pad except for height)

Remember, the XXS Pad is in game. Go land on one, but keep the engines hot. The XS pad, I believe is what the Idris has, minus height, again, go land on it to see what fits.

The Hornet is 6.5 m tall, so is unlikely to fit through the doors to the interior bays.
Also remember you have to land and take off from those pads so can't be wingtip to wingtip. You need clearance.

We don’t know where the Liberator can go that the Idris can’t. We should suspect the Liberator’s S3 reactor has a much lower signature than the Idris. We just don’t have those details yet. Indeed, you can’t turn off the Idris’ shields, coolers, etc. in Erkul, so only owners really know how much its signature can be reduced. Common sense would dictate though that a ship based upon S3 components will be able to hide in an asteroid field or on a planet much more easily than a cap ship.

We do know that all mapped (and therefore stable and persistent) jump points take all sizes of ships. So, yes, an Idris can go anywhere a Liberator can go.

Anything this big isn't going to be stealthy.

I have a Liberator. I am expecting to use it to carry our Hawks for long range bounty missions. Load the Hawks, fly to a station near the target, unload the hawks and use them to get the bounty. Return to the Liberator, swap the pods and get the next mission. Carry our Dragonflys, maybe an Ursa and/or a Nursa.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

So the main deck is 122 meters long but you can only park on half of it? That doesn’t sound right to me.

The three exterior pads are supposed to be XS (24 meters wide) and they are the same width as the door. The interior pads subtract the walkways from that 24 meters, so the vehicle bays are indeed smaller. Let’s guess 18 meters.

So you’re limited instead to 3 across and 8 long. That’s still only 96 meters out of 122. Leave ~20 meters amidships for a briefing area. Plenty enough room to spar with Vanduul Plasma Lances.

Likewise, AI is saying the available height inside the Lib is 10 meters and the Wolf only takes up 3 of them. I think we need to see what is feasible.

I don’t think jump points matter. The Lib’s range and ability to hide matters. The goal is to have a mobile fighter base inside Vanduul space, so the fighters can reach deep. When we get real data on batteries, I think we are going to find this ship can be very stealthy once parked. We’ll need to wait and see.

Keep in mind, these “vehicle bays” were not designed for the tiniest fighters, but they may accommodate them. The Wolf is much smaller even than the Anvil Arrow, and just 2/3 the height.

 

[Richard Bong]

So the main deck is 122 meters long but you can only park on half of it? That doesn’t sound right to me.

The three exterior pads are supposed to be XS (24 meters wide) and they are the same width as the door. The interior pads subtract the walkways from that 24 meters, so the vehicle bays are indeed smaller. Let’s guess 18 meters.

So you’re limited instead to 3 across and 8 long. That’s still only 96 meters out of 122. Leave ~20 meters amidships for a briefing area. Plenty enough room to spar with Vanduul Plasma Lances.

Likewise, AI is saying the available height inside the Lib is 10 meters and the Wolf only takes up 3 of them. I think we need to see what is feasible.

I don’t think jump points matter. The Lib’s range and ability to hide matters. The goal is to have a mobile fighter base inside Vanduul space, so the fighters can reach deep. When we get real data on batteries, I think we are going to find this ship can be very stealthy once parked. We’ll need to wait and see.

Keep in mind, these “vehicle bays” were not designed for the tiniest fighters, but they may accommodate them. The Wolf is much smaller even than the Anvil Arrow, and just 2/3 the height.

View attachment 26835

The Overall ship length is 122 meters. The main deck is less than that because of the ramp design. 32 + 32 + 17 + door + walkways, plus some of the front ramp. Close.
The front pad was never an XS pad, it is an XXS Pad. So it is 2 XS pads on top and an XXS pad on the front. The Liberator does not have 3 XS Pads.
The Interior is shorter because the front door is sloped so the ceiling isn't high enough for a pad. And the back ramp can't be parked on. See Image:

Remember the 92M Hercules C2/M2 only carries 2 Novas or 2 Atlas Chasis. This monster carries two inside and one on the front pad and the space under the front door and on the back ramp are not vehicle pads. The vehicle pads can carry snubs, if you don't hit the ceiling. Could something bigger fit? Maybe, but don't count on it. Can you fit more than a Pisces on the front pad? Maybe, but don't count on it. Can you fit more than two small ships on the top pad? Again, maybe, but you're better off not counting on it.

AI isn't the end all and be all. You have to figure out where AI is coming up with its data.

A ship this big isn't hiding. You can park big ships in Asteroid fields to hide, (It is even in the Idris Commercial.) but they definitely aren't stealthy. You are a big radar signature with lots of overpowered hot thrusters.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Entrance and exit off a contested site is going to be dicey, to be sure. There has never been any S3 stealth components. However, the Vanduul can’t be everywhere at once. Even if CIG gives them the ability to monitor jump points, it should be doable to enter a system and hide, especially if you can run periodically on batteries for a few hours. We’ll see.

You posted the pic I was thinking of, with the Hornet. So yeah, 24 meter doorway and exterior pads. I think 18 meter wide vehicle bays is a good guess. Especially if you keep the side walkways clear, Wolves should fit three wide pretty easily.

Yes, AI gives wrong info pretty often. It is after all designed to lie in order to please the operator.

Certainly you lose a little of the pad under the sloped door, but not all of it. If the ceiling is 10 meters high and the Wolf is 3 meters high, you lose less than 1/3 of the length of the door. That’s not awful.

I’ve seen official docs that describe the fore deck as both XS and XXS. It appears to me about 24 meters long so 3x2 Wolves should fit.

So I’m sticking to my guesstimate that 4 wings of 6 Wolves plus 2 Mantis will fit, and leave room to turn part of the deck amidships into a briefing room at least 20 meters long. So far as parking Wolves. . .we’re talking elite warriors here. If they crash on the deck they get hazed for a full week.

For terrestrial incursions, I think you can fit a Nova, 2 Storm AA, 6 Storm, a Nursa, 4 Dragonfly (w/ railgun box), 4 Nox, 2 Eclipse for overwatch against bombers. If you squeeze 6 into the Nursa and leave 5 on the Lib everyone has a ride until you reach a target. Easy targets like Jumptown you can use half your people on each of two shifts and send half the hardware. Point is, the rides will fit for 30 players. For Jumptown you could dominate with 15 players and run 2, 5-hour shifts and never fill the Lib completely. That’s big pesos.

BTW, multiple Novas is always a nightmare. They can’t see well enough to stay in formation and not run into each other. Storms, OTOH; are nimble and generally OP. Players seldom get how shocking they are in battle. Hard to target, hard to hit, high hit points, nasty gun that reaches 5 km.

 

[Richard Bong]

Entrance and exit off a contested site is going to be dicey, to be sure. There has never been any S3 stealth components. However, the Vanduul can’t be everywhere at once. Even if CIG gives them the ability to monitor jump points, it should be doable to enter a system and hide, especially if you can run periodically on batteries for a few hours. We’ll see.

You posted the pic I was thinking of, with the Hornet. So yeah, 24 meter doorway and exterior pads. I think 18 meter wide vehicle bays is a good guess. Especially if you keep the side walkways clear, Wolves should fit three wide pretty easily.

Yes, AI gives wrong info pretty often. It is after all designed to lie in order to please the operator.

Certainly you lose a little of the pad under the sloped door, but not all of it. If the ceiling is 10 meters high and the Wolf is 3 meters high, you lose less than 1/3 of the length of the door. That’s not awful.

I’ve seen official docs that describe the fore deck as both XS and XXS. It appears to me about 24 meters long so 3x2 Wolves should fit.

So I’m sticking to my guesstimate that 4 wings of 6 Wolves plus 2 Mantis will fit, and leave room to turn part of the deck amidships into a briefing room at least 20 meters long. So far as parking Wolves. . .we’re talking elite warriors here. If they crash on the deck they get hazed for a full week.

For terrestrial incursions, I think you can fit a Nova, 2 Storm AA, 6 Storm, a Nursa, 4 Dragonfly (w/ railgun box), 4 Nox, 2 Eclipse for overwatch against bombers. If you squeeze 6 into the Nursa and leave 5 on the Lib everyone has a ride until you reach a target. Easy targets like Jumptown you can use half your people on each of two shifts and send half the hardware. Point is, the rides will fit for 30 players. For Jumptown you could dominate with 15 players and run 2, 5-hour shifts and never fill the Lib completely. That’s big pesos.

BTW, multiple Novas is always a nightmare. They can’t see well enough to stay in formation and not run into each other. Storms, OTOH; are nimble and generally OP. Players seldom get how shocking they are in battle. Hard to target, hard to hit, high hit points, nasty gun that reaches 5 km.

The launch video shows 2XS pads top and one XXS pad forward. I haven't seen anything official contradict that. I've seen lots of hopes and dreams about it being three XS pads. Every image CIG has shown us has an Argo or a Pisces on the fore deck.

You're talking about players flying off the ship, and since this is Test Squadron, you're talking about drunk players. Which means you're talking about chain reaction explosions when someone clips another on landing or take off.

One other thing to remember, the ships on the exterior, especially on top, are not protected, fully, by the ship's shields.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The wiki and CIG pages both say 3 XL pads. I think these are updates. Since the forward pad has to be the same width as the other pads, makes little sense to make it shorter. In any even, it looks 24 meters in the graphic.

Liberator

The Liberator is a vehicle transporter manufactured by Anvil Aerospace specializing in "open-air" vehicle transport. With three landing pads and an expansive vehicle...

starcitizen.tools

BTW, the updated wiki says the ship has 2, automated twin S2 point defense weapons turrets. These are by far the largest point defense in game. Interesting twist.