Redeemer 2020

Talonsbane

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I get the feeling that the biggest issue with the Redeemer its fans want it to be great at a lot of things and CIG seems to be moving away from ships that are multirole.
I get the feeling that you're right. Especially since the original concept was OP in too many areas all at the same time. CIG seems to prefer having ships balance out, so the super fans of this ship initially would never be satisfied with any compromises made with it. There's a reason for the term "Jack of ALL trades, master of none." If the Redeemer is going to be able to do all of the things people want it to do, then it'll have to do all of those things worse than any of its rivals in those areas to balance out. Something has to give as a sacrifice or the entire thing has to go.
 

Blind Owl

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I get the feeling that the biggest issue with the Redeemer its fans want it to be great at a lot of things and CIG seems to be moving away from ships that are multirole.
Hahah, yup. Can't have people getting by on a single ship. That wouldn't drive sales.
I get the feeling that you're right. Especially since the original concept was OP in too many areas all at the same time. CIG seems to prefer having ships balance out, so the super fans of this ship initially would never be satisfied with any compromises made with it. There's a reason for the term "Jack of ALL trades, master of none." If the Redeemer is going to be able to do all of the things people want it to do, then it'll have to do all of those things worse than any of its rivals in those areas to balance out. Something has to give as a sacrifice or the entire thing has to go.
This. Makes me sad, but it's true. I'd rather have 3 moddable jack of all trades ships that I can tailor to a specific mission-set than a hangar full of mission specific ships. But alas, such is (video game) life.
 

Bambooza

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Hahah, yup. Can't have people getting by on a single ship. That wouldn't drive sales.

This. Makes me sad, but it's true. I'd rather have 3 moddable jack of all trades ships that I can tailor to a specific mission-set than a hangar full of mission specific ships. But alas, such is (video game) life.
It's more than sales its one of the driving forces in getting players to play together instead of treating it as a giant solo sandbox like mostly is Elite. If you look at the ship releases over the years at the start there were a number of multirole ships and in the past two years there really hasn't been any. It coincides with them finally solidifying the massive multiplayer with many players being able to play in a unified universe instead of it being far more like Elite in being individual shards/private servers.
 

Blind Owl

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It's more than sales its one of the driving forces in getting players to play together instead of treating it as a giant solo sandbox like mostly is Elite. If you look at the ship releases over the years at the start there were a number of multirole ships and in the past two years there really hasn't been any. It coincides with them finally solidifying the massive multiplayer with many players being able to play in a unified universe instead of it being far more like Elite in being individual shards/private servers.
You are, of course, very correct. This game is about group play, after all. I have to work hard to remember that, as I keep trying to order my fleet around what I want to do, and keep forgetting that I'll almost always be with you lot drinking and getting into all sorts of shenanigans, haha
 

Bambooza

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You are, of course, very correct. This game is about group play, after all. I have to work hard to remember that, as I keep trying to order my fleet around what I want to do, and keep forgetting that I'll almost always be with you lot drinking and getting into all sorts of shenanigans, haha
I do so look forward to this.
 

maynard

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Hahah, yup. Can't have people getting by on a single ship. That wouldn't drive sales.
... I'd rather have 3 moddable jack of all trades ships that I can tailor to a specific mission-set than a hangar full of mission specific ships. But alas, such is (video game) life.
that's easy to say, but with limited time available for playing games, we all become min-maxers

it's not just about driving sales

wanna go mining? you're going to have the most efficient ship for what's available to mine close to your base

wanna go bounty hunting for an hour? you don't need or want a ship with 12 prisoner pods

etc etc

one valuable lesson from Eve Online is that only a small percentage of the available ships get much use

which ships get used changes with successive balance passes

but everyone's min-maxing, flying the most efficient ship for their purpose
 

Blind Owl

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that's easy to say, but with limited time available for playing games, we all become min-maxers

it's not just about driving sales

wanna go mining? you're going to have the most efficient ship for what's available to mine close to your base

wanna go bounty hunting for an hour? you don't need or want a ship with 12 prisoner pods

etc etc

one valuable lesson from Eve Online is that only a small percentage of the available ships get much use

which ships get used changes with successive balance passes

but everyone's min-maxing, flying the most efficient ship for their purpose
Another very valid point. I reckon I'll need to re-evaluate how I'm thinking. I keep trying to keep my small but versatile. I think it's maybe just a personal housekeeping tick. But at the end of the day, it's not about my fleet at all, it's about supporting the game, and having fun.
 

Bambooza

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that's easy to say, but with limited time available for playing games, we all become min-maxers

it's not just about driving sales

wanna go mining? you're going to have the most efficient ship for what's available to mine close to your base

wanna go bounty hunting for an hour? you don't need or want a ship with 12 prisoner pods

etc etc

one valuable lesson from Eve Online is that only a small percentage of the available ships get much use

which ships get used changes with successive balance passes

but everyone's min-maxing, flying the most efficient ship for their purpose
Indeed everyone is going to min-max and it's not reliant on how much time one has to play. Eve started out with a ship progression and they have sort of gotten away from that over the years. No longer do you see miners flying battleships with 8 miner 2's. But outside of that, there was no real reason to fly the smaller ships as they were ineffective against the larger ships. Star Citizen is attempting to get around that by making ships have strengths and weaknesses like capital ships being vulnerable to bombers who are vulnerable to fighters.
 

Goero

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To be honest, I don't think it needs to have a NEW manufacturer produce it.. I think it would probably fit FAIRLY well with the Consolidated Outland's ships. The nose fits WAY better with pretty much all of the reworked Mustangs, and the engines on the sides as they are make the ship so different it once again kinda fits with the interesting body/wings of the Mustang line up. PLUS it gives CNOU another ship to its fleet while pulling ONE of MANY ships from the Aegis lineup. Maybe ol CR would like it better if it fit with the manufacturer better and It would get the Love it deserves and finally get launched. Heres hoping. The contest that It was part of is what REALLY drew me into SC, so like I kinda have a special place in my heart for this ship, even If I do not currently have it in my fleet.
 

Blind Owl

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To be honest, I don't think it needs to have a NEW manufacturer produce it.. I think it would probably fit FAIRLY well with the Consolidated Outland's ships. The nose fits WAY better with pretty much all of the reworked Mustangs, and the engines on the sides as they are make the ship so different it once again kinda fits with the interesting body/wings of the Mustang line up. PLUS it gives CNOU another ship to its fleet while pulling ONE of MANY ships from the Aegis lineup. Maybe ol CR would like it better if it fit with the manufacturer better and It would get the Love it deserves and finally get launched. Heres hoping. The contest that It was part of is what REALLY drew me into SC, so like I kinda have a special place in my heart for this ship, even If I do not currently have it in my fleet.
Not bad points.
Star Citizen is attempting to get around that by making ships have strengths and weaknesses like capital ships being vulnerable to bombers who are vulnerable to fighters.
Dammit. You just contextualized what I've been, weirdly, struggling with. Thank you
 

Bambooza

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Not bad points.

Dammit. You just contextualized what I've been, weirdly, struggling with. Thank you
If Star Citizen can stay true with ship balance then for me it's going to be one of the more exciting prospects, especially with customization. It means you can take on a Javelin with an Idris and its bomber fleet or the stealth way with marines and two Prowlers. It opens up tactics which will give this game far more depth as it allows players to create new meta and approach goals in unique ways customized to their team's strength and weaknesses. That I can spend weeks planning the perfect fleet makeup for the player pirate base sweep only to find it thrown out the window due to their unexpected unorthodox fleet crafting upon the first contact.
 

Blind Owl

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If Star Citizen can stay true with ship balance then for me it's going to be one of the more exciting prospects, especially with customization. It means you can take on a Javelin with an Idris and its bomber fleet or the stealth way with marines and two Prowlers. It opens up tactics which will give this game far more depth as it allows players to create new meta and approach goals in unique ways customized to their team's strength and weaknesses. That I can spend weeks planning the perfect fleet makeup for the player pirate base sweep only to find it thrown out the window due to their unexpected unorthodox fleet crafting upon the first contact.
All this. ALL OF IT!


@Bambooza is so hot right now!
 

Goero

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I feel like CIG is doing as much as they can to make sure Meta's for taking down bases/Capital ships/etc do not have a chance to REALLY form. Sure there will always be "Best ship" "Best weapon damage" etc etc. But when it comes down to actual battle on scale of THAT size, at least against players, the wide variety of ship types and their specific specialty makes any real Meta fleet set up moot. Unless you're the TEST squadron, and then the META is, send in the 40+ Javelins we've got fully staffed, with some escorts and watch everything die. Or lag out, one way or another. ;)
 

Blind Owl

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I feel like CIG is doing as much as they can to make sure Meta's for taking down bases/Capital ships/etc do not have a chance to REALLY form. Sure there will always be "Best ship" "Best weapon damage" etc etc. But when it comes down to actual battle on scale of THAT size, at least against players, the wide variety of ship types and their specific specialty makes any real Meta fleet set up moot. Unless you're the TEST squadron, and then the META is, send in the 40+ Javelins we've got fully staffed, with some escorts and watch everything die. Or lag out, one way or another. ;)
Disagree. The Aurora shall win.
 

Eliyahu

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Here are my 2 complaints about the redesign.

1) why is the bottom bulk added? It's a gun ship not a cargo ship.
2) the tail now curves up into the firing arc of the top turret.... I will now blast my own ship to pieces shooting at an enemy.
 

Talonsbane

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I feel like CIG is doing as much as they can to make sure Meta's for taking down bases/Capital ships/etc do not have a chance to REALLY form. Sure there will always be "Best ship" "Best weapon damage" etc etc. But when it comes down to actual battle on scale of THAT size, at least against players, the wide variety of ship types and their specific specialty makes any real Meta fleet set up moot. Unless you're the TEST squadron, and then the META is, send in the 40+ Javelins we've got fully staffed, with some escorts and watch everything die. Or lag out, one way or another. ;)
Disagree. The Aurora shall win.
I can resolve this dispute with 1 word. "BEERFEST!"

 
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