ROC DS (AKA ROC 2.0)

Grimbli

Space Marshal
Jan 27, 2016
3,961
14,559
2,410
RSI Handle
Grimbli
I espect to be able to dump my backpack of salvae weapons into crates that are already sittin in my ship, not to be forced to return too a vendor every single time I need to empty my backpack...
To me, this is one of the reasons I expect this game to be amazing. Being able to "physically" pick up and place weapons or items will allow you to do some amazing things.

So many people ripped on the Perseus because it had to armory. But my idea was to just carry a few SCU crates in a corner and label it Armory. Putting a few weapons, ammo, and armor inside that. We're supposed to have maglock cargo grids, so why can't we do that? Same with medical supplies or food. I go to a R&R I expect to buy burritos and water in 1 SCU increments. We can't hold all that food and drink on our person or just in the kitchen. How much food can a 300 series hold? They're supposed to be long distance ships.

So I can't really imagine they're going to remove the ability to dump the ROC cargo into something. Otherwise these will be super short mining trips.
 

Lorddarthvik

Space Marshal
Donor
Feb 22, 2016
1,687
5,828
2,360
RSI Handle
Lorddarthvik
To me, this is one of the reasons I expect this game to be amazing. Being able to "physically" pick up and place weapons or items will allow you to do some amazing things.

So many people ripped on the Perseus because it had to armory. But my idea was to just carry a few SCU crates in a corner and label it Armory. Putting a few weapons, ammo, and armor inside that. We're supposed to have maglock cargo grids, so why can't we do that? Same with medical supplies or food. I go to a R&R I expect to buy burritos and water in 1 SCU increments. We can't hold all that food and drink on our person or just in the kitchen. How much food can a 300 series hold? They're supposed to be long distance ships.

So I can't really imagine they're going to remove the ability to dump the ROC cargo into something. Otherwise these will be super short mining trips.
They will remove the ability to spawn boxes out of thin air, but otherwise I think you will be able to carry the ore in your pocket and dump it in a box.
This is where the Cyclone pickup truck version can come into play!
Instead of just having a dumb design of a second seat, they should have added a boom arm as well to transfer the ore out of the ROC DS, like a harvester has! Also, we need dump trucks or a flatbed with open crates! Moving the crates is already solved with the gravity gun attachment so why the heck not!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deroth

Bambooza

Grand Admiral
Sep 25, 2017
4,490
14,261
1,250
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
With all of these exposed mining stations I am worried about the Orion having lots of exposed miners on octopus arms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deroth

Cugino83

Admiral
Apr 25, 2019
1,237
3,900
700
RSI Handle
Cugino
With all of these exposed mining stations I am worried about the Orion having lots of exposed miners on octopus arms.
Hmm actually I don't think the Orion have nay minig station at all...
From the schematics of the ship it appear to have just a "laser arm" to brake the larger asteroids, all the final grinding and extraction should accour internally in the ship...
 

Cugino83

Admiral
Apr 25, 2019
1,237
3,900
700
RSI Handle
Cugino
Well, I'll be suprise otherwise... the DS is too expensive to a be a viable LTI token except for fewer people, it doens't have any real appeal over the standard ROC and I think players start to realise how cheap is to buy those vehicles in-game, especially with the current persistent economy that allow yoou to grind consistent money even with small ships...
I have any doubt there are some "collectors" tha tjust buy anything, but for the majority of the players something like the DS is just a wast of money.... lots of money.
 

Grimbli

Space Marshal
Jan 27, 2016
3,961
14,559
2,410
RSI Handle
Grimbli
There's honestly no reason to buy it. The ROC in game is like 185k creds. The DS can't be more than 250k, 500k would be pushing it HARD.

If you actually want one, buying in game is the only way.

I could see buying a skin, do we know if you buy a skin without a DS can it be applied to a credit bought one? I would assume so.
 

Bambooza

Grand Admiral
Sep 25, 2017
4,490
14,261
1,250
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
Well, I'll be suprise otherwise... the DS is too expensive to a be a viable LTI token except for fewer people, it doens't have any real appeal over the standard ROC and I think players start to realise how cheap is to buy those vehicles in-game, especially with the current persistent economy that allow yoou to grind consistent money even with small ships...
I have any doubt there are some "collectors" tha tjust buy anything, but for the majority of the players something like the DS is just a wast of money.... lots of money.
Ya. I have to think it would have been an easier sell if the mining arm operator was included inside the cabin instead of sitting on an arm exposed to the elements and gun fire. They could have had a joystick and a monitor showing were the mining head was looking at. Its the same issue I have with the mole. There is no reason why they are creating these seats to be outside the ship.
 

Krowwe

Lieutenant
Apr 14, 2021
3
16
75
RSI Handle
Krowwe
I have been doing a lot of thinking about this thing and I think it DOES have a place... just not yet.

Now, you can take two guys out in a ship with 2 ROCs, scan, land, mine, repeat.

BUT!!! Some time in the future it is going to take TIME to get into and out of armor, and you will not be able to fly a ship in armor.

This means the 2 ROC method would lose a LOT of time with only 2 people.

With the DS, your pilot is your driver, and does not have to armor up at each landing, saving time. You have one less laser, but it is a better laser, more range, etc, meaning that overall it should be more efficient, once the armor changes are in place.
 

Lorddarthvik

Space Marshal
Donor
Feb 22, 2016
1,687
5,828
2,360
RSI Handle
Lorddarthvik
I have been doing a lot of thinking about this thing and I think it DOES have a place... just not yet.

Now, you can take two guys out in a ship with 2 ROCs, scan, land, mine, repeat.

BUT!!! Some time in the future it is going to take TIME to get into and out of armor, and you will not be able to fly a ship in armor.

This means the 2 ROC method would lose a LOT of time with only 2 people.

With the DS, your pilot is your driver, and does not have to armor up at each landing, saving time. You have one less laser, but it is a better laser, more range, etc, meaning that overall it should be more efficient, once the armor changes are in place.
Nope, not it, hopefully.

Changing clothes and armor at your ships locker (once they come online in 2-5 years lul...) should take no more than 5-15 seconds. It is an inconvenience, yes, but nothing to cause hours of time wasted on a single trip...
If it takes longer, like we get a full animation of 3 minutes where our character puts on every single piece of clothing one by one... yeah, that's when they have gone too far with "immersion". They won't do this... (at least I really really hope they won't lol)
Also, the ROC / DS cockpit is as confined as a fighter's, so it would be pretty obvious that you should not be allowed to wear armor sitting in there either. Flight suit, sure, but bulky protective armor, nope. You should get into the ROC / DS pilot seat while still parked in the ship and not get out until you park it inside, cos no protective bulky armor. The other guy can wear whatever is neccesary and allowed in the miners seat.
This eliminates all the dress-up time.

Also also, if you have a ship with 2 ppl, you can be way more efficient just by having a pilot scouting deposits and picking you up and dropping you off at the right spot while you mine in a single ROC.


The problem is, this is all pointless debate as long as we cannot unload either the ROC or ROC DS into our ships properly! Which is as per last time I heard about it, the way they meant to work!
We will not be able to spawn storage boxes out of our pockets, so no using personal inventory anymore, and they won't be able to unload onto the ground or anything like that. So basically you will have to transport the whole vehicle to a station to sell off what's inside. This is very very dumb.
I don't know how they will solve this yet, but it's definitely not gonna fly. The obvious solution is open crates / dump trucks, heck maybe even a fuckin antigrav "wheelbarrow" or something, but without a way to clear the ROC's cargo hold into a container and keep on mining, they become basically useless.


No matter how much we try to figure it out, the sad truth is, the ROC DS was a fast and cheap way (90% reused assets) to add another cashgrab that is aimed at new players who have no fucking clue what mining in this game entails and they think "oh how cool, I can go mining with my buddy in this!". That's it. There is no higher purpose or future features or meaning behind it's existence.


So in conclusion This things only place is IN THE BIN!





The real solution by CIG should have been to Specialize them:

DS: Make it slightly bigger and slower. Eliminate the miners seat from the outside of the DS and add a larger enclosed cockpit for a pilot + a miner, control the arm from inside as suggested in the comments above.. Make the whole thing closed to withstand environmental hazards, including animals and whatever comes at you. Maybe add a turret on top with an FPS sized weapon, like a .50 cal on a tank, controlled by the driver so he has something to do while the miner does his job.

ROC: make it into an OPEN vehicle (edit: I've just been informed it already is. I never noticed lol), but one that would still not allow you to wear extreme-environment armor. So you would have to stick to moons and planets where a simple flight suit is enough protection. No turrets, cup holders or AC, no nothin. Just a mining lazor... Cheap and cheerful, very risky if you are totally solo in the wrong places, but could be employed in high numbers for efficiency as more of them fit inside cargo ships. Make it faaaaast, so instead of armor it can blitz about to protect itself.

This way, you get two unique vehicles with unique gameplay, and a justification for the higher price.. Simple ROC is cheap and small to carry around but only usable in "safe"-ish environs. ROC DS for env protection in very harsh conditions or where operating in large groups is problematic. Both would stand on their own, with unique capabilities to design missions for.

Then as they get the time, CiG could make more versions of both, like enclosed ROC but slower and much smaller cargo space, DS with larger hold and no protective gun, and whatever. It could be separate vehicles for them to sell, or just upgrade modules, or even in-game upgrade stuff if they wanna be kind to us players.
Instead they took the cheap and scummy route of a cashgrab, so no, I'll never accept why the ROC DS had to be this way...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Deroth and Cugino83

Bambooza

Grand Admiral
Sep 25, 2017
4,490
14,261
1,250
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
Another thing to add is those seats are not going to protect you from the Environment nor provide oxygen. So depending on the environment you will have to have a suit for each one you wish to mine in.

Beyond a cash grab as @Lorddarthvik mentioned the other part would be to force coop. In this case unless the moon/planet is temperate or vacuum its not going to be possible for the driver to get out of the seat and control the mining arm. Any hostile mining conditions will require a coop as the mining arm is going to require someone with a special environmental suit which so far have been shown to be bulky.
 

Cugino83

Admiral
Apr 25, 2019
1,237
3,900
700
RSI Handle
Cugino
I second @Lorddarthvik on his post... except ofr one thing: the ROC is already an open vehicles.... 😅
Concerning the problem with the exteam enviroment problem... it will depend on the enviroment. On system with really really hight temprature (like ones in the Pyro system) you'll need and enviromental suite to survive in them, but in other places, even if the temprature will fall into the danger zone you'll probably be able to carry on without any problem.
For example right now you can mine on Daymar without any enviromental suite even if the temprature rise a lot: the time to live is so long you can mine a set of 5-7 rock without any problem.. just be sure to drink a lot afterward.... and maybe take a shower... (sorry Drake users... you'll still stink...)
 

Lorddarthvik

Space Marshal
Donor
Feb 22, 2016
1,687
5,828
2,360
RSI Handle
Lorddarthvik
I second @Lorddarthvik on his post... except ofr one thing: the ROC is already an open vehicles.... 😅
Concerning the problem with the exteam enviroment problem... it will depend on the enviroment. On system with really really hight temprature (like ones in the Pyro system) you'll need and enviromental suite to survive in them, but in other places, even if the temprature will fall into the danger zone you'll probably be able to carry on without any problem.
For example right now you can mine on Daymar without any enviromental suite even if the temprature rise a lot: the time to live is so long you can mine a set of 5-7 rock without any problem.. just be sure to drink a lot afterward.... and maybe take a shower... (sorry Drake users... you'll still stink...)
It is? I always thought it had glass lol never noticed it didn't. My bad! 🤣🤣

I'm talkinga about future possible extreme envs. like radiation planets, electric storm planets and whatever they come up with just to spice up things later. The current cold/hot system is fun, but as long as you can fit into any vehicles pilot seat with your full env-suit on, it's kinda too easy to deal with. This will not be the case forever, as mentioned above about having to change out of armor to pilot ships and probably vehicles as well.

@Bambooza You are right about the forced coop, but I just don't see how this vehicle helps with that in practice. One person is gonna be really bored at least half the time while the other is driving/mining. It is forced, in the wrong way.
There was a really good opportunity to add a dedicated docking bay for the small ROC to the open rear "shelf" of the Nomad. It fits as is right now. They could have made it be like a mini Conny+snub with the capability to air-drop and collect specifically the ROC with the push of a button, using the limited antigrav system it already has, turning the Nomad into a special fun starter ship. That would have been forcing coop in a fun way. In a way that actually makes sense in the current game and sounds way cooler then "look, you can now do the thing you could do before, but you need someone else with you, and it costs more! Yaaay!111!!!". ROC DS is just sooooo dumb...
Ofc I know the tech wasn't ready to do ship2ship back then and so on, but they could have made and sold some other ship then.... Like the solo salvage ship or I dunno... I'm not CR, nor the marketing team, they should figure this stuff out better lol

edit: thanks to both (and all) of you for reading through my long ass post. The length illustrates the quality of the new patch, as in how much of my limited free time I spend writing silly things here instead of playing the new patch lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bambooza

Grimbli

Space Marshal
Jan 27, 2016
3,961
14,559
2,410
RSI Handle
Grimbli
For example right now you can mine on Daymar without any enviromental suite even if the temprature rise a lot: the time to live is so long you can mine a set of 5-7 rock without any problem.
The hilarity of this situation is that since the survival time is so long you could mine all the rocks and then have the seat miner climb into the back of the DS until you find another set of nodes. But if that's what you're doing then you could just solo the thing.

Although it also ironically removes the "advantage" of the DS by not allowing the miner to scan while the driver drives. (Even though that Q&A advantage was complete bullshit)

I feel like they're just trying to come up with excuses as to why this vehicle isn't completely stupid, because they've already spent developer time and resources building the damned thing. Which, also ironically, will cause the vehicle to actually be a good idea since CIG will be artificially buffing the thing over the base ROC to be better than it in almost every way. Just wait and see.
 

Cugino83

Admiral
Apr 25, 2019
1,237
3,900
700
RSI Handle
Cugino
...

I feel like they're just trying to come up with excuses as to why this vehicle isn't completely stupid, because they've already spent developer time and resources building the damned thing. Which, also ironically, will cause the vehicle to actually be a good idea since CIG will be artificially buffing the thing over the base ROC to be better than it in almost every way. Just wait and see.
Agree and is a bit sad that the DS is actually derived form the very first concept design of the ROC...
Problem is IMHO the only way the DS could became an appealing vehicle (a VERY appealing one TBH), is if it get upgraded to use a S1 mining laser, basically becaming a land-prospector.
Couple it with a modified cargo "backpack" that, instead of a bestspoke container, get a standard cargo crate that can be detached and swapped for a new empty one, and you got the winner.
 
  • Glorious
Reactions: Lorddarthvik

Cugino83

Admiral
Apr 25, 2019
1,237
3,900
700
RSI Handle
Cugino
I picked this up because of its added mining capacity, but feel its likely a melt. The logistics seem wonky.

Maybe we'll see an upscale Origin miner that actually allows in-cabin crew?
Hmm Origin and industrial ship doesn't go well togheter... maybe an ARGO vehicles? That will be cool and add some flavor to a "minor" manifacturer.
 

Lorddarthvik

Space Marshal
Donor
Feb 22, 2016
1,687
5,828
2,360
RSI Handle
Lorddarthvik
Hmm Origin and industrial ship doesn't go well togheter... maybe an ARGO vehicles? That will be cool and add some flavor to a "minor" manifacturer.
Yep, that's what I thought as well, ARGO is a better match.
Nice orange/yellowish painted, maybe running on tracks instead of wheels. They can do a lot of variation on ground mining vehicles still.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bambooza
Forgot your password?