RSI Peripherals [CONCERN] - ¡Please ignore!

[Space Monkey]

So now that I have your attention, with my please ignore [CONCERN} ruse...

Everyone is up on the RSI announcement about their line of peripherals in conjunction with Madcatz. The demos look great but some of the features kinda gave me pause and by the end of the presentation, I know that I am not going to buy them because:

1. QA issues of past joysticks and design problems makes my really question why it would be different with RSI brand (I know CR...perfection...blahblahblah Imma wait and see): I've read too many posts of people receiving duds, people reporting breakage after light-use or simple design problem that lead me to believe the product wouldn't last as long as I would like it too for my taste. I don't mind paying for peripherals (I own a G510s and G502 but I want them to last a long time and I can't think that buying a new Madcatz HOTAS is for me even though it looks awesome with an RSI logo.
2. The added functionality seems problematic:

• Balls: I know this is super early and I shouldn't expect the mock-ups to look anything like to final product but a track ball? I hate using them and in a twitchy environment like SC, it would just be a feature that I just wouldn't use or would find distracting when it really mattered. Also, I still have nightmares of fishing out dirty fuzzballs from my ancient mice long ago. Dirty...dirty fuzzballs. I really don't want that experience again and I wouldn't want to be fishing around in a $200+ peripheral and possibly damaging it. Plus how would this trackball help in the operation of the ship I am controlling? Anyway, thoughts and issues
• Data Screen: So LED "touchscreen maybe" on the Stick? So HOTAS is supposed to be Hands On Throttle And Stick. If you have to let go of the stick to operate the touchscreen, it might be an issue. Also, given the pictures, it seems so large that I might have to move just to see what's going on. I would prefer it to be on the throttle. It makes more sense there. I can move my hands away from the throttle if I need to but there is still the issue of visibility. I have an IPad setup that I am currently using for functions that I haven't memorized and plus I hope to add some alarms and read out eventually once I figure out the SDK. Anyway, this touchscreen is out of the way but not out-of-sight or out-of-reach. It sits right above my left hand were I can see it perfectly.
• What about that 6DoF though: From the mock-ups I haven't seen anything new that would dramatically add functionality dealing with 6 Degrees of Freedom. Yes, mock-ups... they will change and be completely different. Nevertheless, I would have totally peed myself if I saw something like a Space Navigator that can actually handle the control a ship in 6DoF with a stick. problem is its really only highly functional in Spacesims or managing 3-D animation. Super Niche. That gimbal locking issue though, gone with added bonus of that 6D!..Anyway, there was no peeing.

What I have been excited about recently was this video. This guy's awesome. I found his stuff while looking into HOTAS reviews.

Apparently, CH is considering and maybe in the early stages of redesigning their product line. It really is about time. Their design is about 20+ year out of date but currently, it is the best quality joystick on the market (no lynching necessary, it's just an opinion, relax). It is not pretty but it will do the job for years on end without fail. It will work with all games and completely customizable using their peripheral software. To me it seems like the warthog looks and functions amazingly but I've also heard it's really stiff. If I'm using it for hours on end in dog fighting, that might be an issue. There are mods sure but just like I don't play with Fuzzballs, I don't want to mess around with the internals of a perfect good joystick just because it isn't right for my use, especially at $400.

Anyway, just wanted to know what you guy's thoughts are on the HOTAS from gamescon beyond "OMG it's RSI and I gotta have it" and what features would be cool that you haven't seen in a HOTAS yet. I've already given up on any company making a useable 6DoF throttle but as far as I can see CHs ministick on the throttle is really the closest I think I'm going to get. Plus I can buy it seperately for HOTAM.​

 

[Feral Oxide]

I like my ch throttle, and would love to upgrade my thrustmaster t16000 stick (though it's not shabby) to a better model, but anything that includes a readout is dumb. my eye focus is onna screen my finger focus needs to take care of all the buttons without looking. I do wish on a star for a joystick with a workable gimbles setup. I can't get my hat to track for that.

 

[honcho12]

Studies have shown that trackballs are quicker and more accurate to use than thumbsticks, so I think trackballs are a great idea!

As for saying it doesnt have enough DOF, it has oodles of DOF! 3 on the stick + 1 on the throttle +2 on each of the 2 trackballs is 8DOF, enough for full control over your ship AND gimballed weapons. I think(but have not tried it, so I can't say for sure) that something like the space navigator would give you real problems if you wanted to, say, translate forward without pitching.

 

[mromutt]

The little trackballs are for your gimbels, and a trackball is not like those little rubber balls that used to be in mice.

 

[Krystal LeChuck]

The whole setup seems stupid for me. Trackballs and microsticks are terrible for fast precision aiming. The best solution would be a small touchpad surface on the throttle that you could swipe with the index finger and one for your thumb.

Microsticks on the other hand are great for 6dof as well as rotaries. I am using 2 rotaries on my HOTAS cougar for left/right and up/down strafe. And I also use the microstick for forward/back strafe and up/down(precision). The fact that rotaries have a center spot (like an indent locking position) and the microstick has autoreturn to 0,0 when released makes them proper axis controllers. The rotary control of sideway and vertical motion allows me to set it to a specific thrust level while compensating my pitch/roll/yaw to point to a target, literally going circles around them.

But for gimbal control...nope. Either head tracking (really bad solution, cannot aim precisely) or a touchpad surface. Or just use fixed gimbals.

 

[Space Monkey]

Studies have shown that trackballs are quicker and more accurate to use than thumbsticks, so I think trackballs are a great idea!

It's is possibly true that trackballs are quicker, I'll take your word for it. The accuracy is fine but we're talking about a trackball on a moving object as opposed to a fixed object. I've never ever seen a trackball on a moving platform before. There's going to be a loss of accuracy there. It might be better suited for the throttle though. The mini-stick does offer benefits in that it returns to center and for me anyway, it would provide a better tactile frame of reference. I might not use it for gimbals though. Maybe just Strafing.

As for saying it doesnt have enough DOF, it has oodles of DOF! 3 on the stick + 1 on the throttle +2 on each of the 2 trackballs is 8DOF, enough for full control over your ship AND gimballed weapons. I think(but have not tried it, so I can't say for sure) that something like the space navigator would give you real problems if you wanted to, say, translate forward without pitching.

Certainly enough degrees of freedoms for sure but it's really how those DoF come together in the UI. The space navigator has its issues in the context of dogfighting. I've yet to find a good experience review of a dogffight encounter but for precise control, a 3D mouse is tops. This may be irrelevant in dogfighting it might be really awesome in a mining situation, salvaging or space docking.

As it is now, I'm not using the gimbals at all. I'm fine with it though cause it allows me bigger weapons and I learn how to fly better.

In the end it might be that dogfighting capable control of a space ship is not possible with 2 controllers without compromising accuracy and/or control. I think I might have to try a mouse, throttle and a space mouse. It wouldn't cost me more than getting pedals.

 

[honcho12]

The accuracy is fine but we're talking about a trackball on a moving object as opposed to a fixed object

I agree, and I think strafing would actually be better on a mini-stick...

In the end it might be that dogfighting capable control of a space ship is not possible with 2 controllers without compromising accuracy and/or control. I think I might have to try a mouse, throttle and a space mouse. It wouldn't cost me more than getting pedals.

I think (again, I have not tried it) dual sticks with mini-sticks/trackballs would give you pretty good control, if not so much accuracy on gimbals. I don't like twisty sticks, so I would have pitch/roll/yaw/Z-strafe on the sticks, and throttle/Y-strafe on a thumbstick. Maybe power management on the other thumbstick... Which hands would you use for each of your 3 peripherals?

Either way, the RSI stick doesn't do it for me.

 

[Desterion]

I'm not really complaining. At least they didn't give it to Razer. I'd rather have the stuff last longer than it takes to go from Terra to Earth without crapping out on me.

I would for sure jump on a touchscreen kind of thing if it were sold separately. I've got a g110 that is going strong after years and I don't really need to upgrade a 16000m.

 

[Supremetokyo]

Dual t16000 , warthog Hotas, Saitek pedals, track IR owner here. Me personally I switch between standing and sitting when I game and I prefer the dual sticks for the vast amount of things you can bind it to. The warthog does require more skills to use and has many buttons you can bind as well but for space sims its not the best. Depending on CH if they make a come back I will switch over to CH and give them a try but the dual T16000 set up works perfectly fine for me and its a cheap route if your on a budget.

 

[maynard]

wall of text, ignored