(Solved) WTB Joystick that does it all on the cheapo!

[Lorddarthvik]

So it's that time again when I survived another year without needing a new liver, so I wanna drop just a tiny bit of my monies on a more properer stick.
I'm just tired of re-building the damn converter box for my very old but still incredibly awesome MS Swndr 3d Pro.
Currently I own one working Sidewinder 3d pro (when the converter box doesn't fall apart), an FFB version of that which need the converter box modded differently, and a janky sidewinder 2 that is USB and werks but utter crap as it's running potmeters... SO as you can see i'm used to the good old actually quality stuff, but I can't spend a 1000 euros on a Warthog combo. Also don't have any space for it.


WTB HOT ASS joystick

If you have one for sale that matches what I'm looking for, please send a DM! Thanks!
If you have experience regarding the joysticks mentioned below, please post em! Thanks!

I'm in the EU, so must be able to ship here!

Price range is around a 100euros/usd

I have absolutely zero space, so I'm looking for a proper all in one stick that has twist+throttle. Proper contactles sensors is a must have!

I know the usual suspect is the T16000, but I'm not too fond of the footprint and general shape of it. I want something different, if possible, but that is at least in stock at some stores around here.
BTW don't even mention the Logicrap 3d rpo joystick, I had two of those pieces of crap over the years, never ever again...

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I've looked at these so far:

VKB Gladiator/Ravcore Javelin/Speedlink Arrow

Gladiator Mk.II – VKBcontrollers.com

vkbcontrollers.com

This looks kinda what I'm looking for, but I can't find any of these for sale anywhere! If you got a spare one you want to get rid of, don't hesitate to send me a PM!

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TitanWolf PC Joystick

Titanwolf - PC Joystick - Flight Stick – Vierweg Joystick – HOTAS Funktion - stufenloser Schubregler – Hat Switch Achtwege Stick - 4 Buttons D-Pad - 3 Modi – Gashebel – Ruder – 9 Knöpfe-23 Funktionen: Amazon.de: Games

Titanwolf - PC Joystick - Flight Stick – Vierweg Joystick – HOTAS Funktion - stufenloser Schubregler – Hat Switch Achtwege Stick - 4 Buttons D-Pad - 3 Modi – Gashebel – Ruder – 9 Knöpfe-23 Funktionen - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!

www.amazon.de

Never heard of this one, looks intriguing! If I don't get any replies, I might order one as it still seems to be in stock at least.



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RunnerUps, probably best to avoid:
Speedlink Phantom Hawk

Speedlink-Shop | PHANTOM HAWK FLIGHTSTICK, BLACK | purchase online

PHANTOM HAWK FLIGHTSTICK, BLACK - HIGHLIGHTS,TECHNICAL_DETAILS,DOWNLOADS,FAQ,SUPPORT~#~HighlightsTransform your desk into a cockpit - the PHANTOM HAWK flightstick makes flight simulation a true experi

www.speedlink.com

This looks like it's cheap generic crap. I highly doubt this has HAL sensors, it's too cheap and not very cheerful according to amazon reviews. Anyone tried it?
Speedlink Dark TOrnado

Speedlink-Shop | DARK TORNADO FLIGHT STICK, BLACK | purchase online

DARK TORNADO FLIGHT STICK, BLACK - HIGHLIGHTS,TECHNICAL_DETAILS,DOWNLOADS,FAQ,SUPPORT~#~HighlightsReady for high-altitude flight: the DARK TORNADO Flight Stick gives you perfect control of any plane.

www.speedlink.com

This is actually a rebadged and most likely cheapened version of the very old MS Sidewinder USB (https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-E13-00001-Sidewinder-Joystick-USB/dp/B00006BA0Q)

 

[maynard]

I will be watching the responses here closely

 

[StdDev]

I will be watching the responses here closely

 

[Aramsolari]

I dual wield Thrustmaster T16000ms.

They're cheap and have been doing the job. I might upgrade to Virpils in the future but ya know...rather not spend too much right now. Precarious World economy and all that lol.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I will be watching the responses here closely

I'll wait a couple of days, or a week, and then go for the TitanWolf if nothing else shows up.
I've been out of the loop so I dunno what else is available (never heard of Virpil or VKB until someone posted about it here), I'm curious if someone has some short-run small brandname joystick to sell.

I dual wield Thrustmaster T16000ms.

They're cheap and have been doing the job. I might upgrade to Virpils in the future but ya know...rather not spend too much right now. Precarious World economy and all that lol.

The answer is always miata.. I mean t16000 lol. Sadly I don't have the space for dual sticks on my desk, I want something a bit more compact and less toy-shaped.
If nothing else works out, I'll grab one of those, although I don't much like the throttle and buttons position. Having to reach around to the right for some of them, or let go of it to do so, seems counter productive.

 

[vahadar]

T16000M FCS is a good cheap joystick that does the job. I own just one and going to buy the TWCS throttle to turn it into a real HOTAS. Total is around your budget for 100€.
It has a toy look yes, fancy lights and so on, not too user friendly buttons on the base of the joystick (hard to access them with one hand only), but it is a very precise budget stick. Very sturdy and reliable.

By the way, forget about the slider on all those sticks including the T16000, you will need a real Hotas to precisely controll the throttle.
On a side note the T16000M is as precise as the Warthog which cost like 500€ with the Hotas configuration.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I went ahead and ordered the TitanWolf cos why not. It supposedly not that bad for the price. Should be here soonish...
Btw as it turns out, it's a VKB design originally made for another company, called a Defender Cobra M5

Joystick Defender COBRA M5 USB Hall sensor, 4 axes, 12buttons

Professional gaming joystick.1000 of golden eagles as Bonus from War Thunder game is included

defender-global.com

If the internals haven't been replaced by cheaper chinesium, it should be a fine stick.
I'm a bit worried about the very long stick being uncomfortable for extended fights (had similar issues with the Saitek cheapo dualthrottle, god what an awful stick...), but we shall see.

 

[Deroth]

I went ahead and ordered the TitanWolf cos why not. It supposedly not that bad for the price. Should be here soonish...
Btw as it turns out, it's a VKB design originally made for another company, called a Defender Cobra M5

Joystick Defender COBRA M5 USB Hall sensor, 4 axes, 12buttons

Professional gaming joystick.1000 of golden eagles as Bonus from War Thunder game is included

defender-global.com

If the internals haven't been replaced by cheaper chinesium, it should be a fine stick.
I'm a bit worried about the very long stick being uncomfortable for extended fights (had similar issues with the Saitek cheapo dualthrottle, god what an awful stick...), but we shall see.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but looks like it uses a HAT switch instead of twist, please update us after you get it what you think of it.

 

[Doggen]

Ahhh, I own the VKB Gladiator as a left stick and I think its pretty damn good. I cant find it anywhere either atm :(

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but looks like it uses a HAT switch instead of twist, please update us after you get it what you think of it.

Wait, what? No real twist?
Now that would be a twist I was not expecting.

Will report back!

Edit: I checked the Amazon link and it looks like (in the pictures) it should come with 4 axis, your normal x+y, throttle, and twist.

 

[Doggen]

I panicked for you but all I could find was this youtube of the cobra so I hope you are good:

View: https://youtu.be/Qsrt_Sc4Seo?t=68

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I panicked for you but all I could find was this youtube of the cobra so I hope you are good:

View: https://youtu.be/Qsrt_Sc4Seo?t=68

Thanks!
I'm not sure about teh detents thing, I like my joysticks fully neutral in this regard. Will see how it feels. Should be here tomorrow, according to Amazon, but knowing our postal service I highly doubt it. Maybe next week..

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Update: the stick finally made it here in one piece. It took em long enough, Prime delivery is a joke around here.

Anyways, joystick feels real nice, the base is really heavy which is great, and it fits on my desk, buttons feel a bit cheap but perfectly okay, ergonomics are great for my hand size, stick movement is light and easy. First impressions are great!

But, and this is a big ass but: The throttle and twist don't show up in SC! It looks to be working fine according to windows, but they are missing in SC! Never had this issue with any of the other joysticks I tried. WTF?

 

[Starscribe]

Out of interest, how do you joystick users handle the on-foot sections of the game?

Love the idea of getting a decent stick setup for flying (especially non gimbaled) but I'd need to switch to mouse and keyboard when I left the ship. Is this what you all do?

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Out of interest, how do you joystick users handle the on-foot sections of the game?

Love the idea of getting a decent stick setup for flying (especially non gimbaled) but I'd need to switch to mouse and keyboard when I left the ship. Is this what you all do?

Yeah, i just switch to M&kB.
I think some use the dual stick setup for on-foot as well. Or if you have extra analog sticks on your stick or throttle, they can be used like an Xbox controller so you never have to switch to mkb.

 

[Doggen]

Are you trying to bind the axis ('s's's?) to a non axis keybind? It wont show up then. Can you bind x and y axis?

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Are you trying to bind the axis ('s's's?) to a non axis keybind? It wont show up then. Can you bind x and y axis?

No, I'M doing it right, the axises's'S just aren't there in SC. All the available axy should show up as the deadzone sliders in settings. X and Y are there and working perfectly, the twist and throttle arent.

I've looked into it, and This is a known issue! I just didn't know about it lol
It is specific to this joystick, they do something unconventinal with the twist and throttle axiseseses and so those don't show up in SC. It's been like this since patch number whaterever it was 3 years ago that broke it. Before that, it worked. I guess since they changed to reading the DirectInput from windows instead of reading the attached devices directly, it is broken.

So, the workaround is, in theory, to use VJoy and some other Remapper software to map the real input on the joystick to a fake virtual joystick, and bind that input manually in SC (throttle to speed-limiter abs. and twist to roll axis)

 

[Doggen]

Ah I seeeee. Bummer! I recently found UCR, its pretty good even if I dont understand half the functions ;)

 

[Richard Bong]

Out of interest, how do you joystick users handle the on-foot sections of the game?

Love the idea of getting a decent stick setup for flying (especially non gimbaled) but I'd need to switch to mouse and keyboard when I left the ship. Is this what you all do?

Keyboard and mouse. Just because it is "Hands On Throttle And Stick" doesn't mean you can't remove your hands when not flying.

I have also tried a gamepad.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

Ah I seeeee. Bummer! I recently found UCR, its pretty good even if I dont understand half the functions ;)

I used VJoy+UJR and it works perfectly fine.
Tried a few rounds of Pirate and vaandduuull swarm (singleplayer) with a cutty black and a warden. Got creamed on round3 or 4 every time lol. I haven't played AC for a while now, the AI seems to have improved it's aim a lot, and it's been a while since I last played it with a stick.



So, this joystick feels mostly okay for todays utterly low standards. For this kinda money (60eur with shipping) I expected a little bit better. The build quality is great, the buttons feel okay, the double-action trigger is really useful in SC too. But it's only "good" because in the last 10-15 years, people forgot how a joystick should feel like.

What I don't like is the huge deadzone. It is built-in, not a config issue. I have to move the stick a fair amount before it starts to register any movement. I looked at the "raw" numbers, it's a hardware thing. Every modern stick I tried that uses the goddamned MS DirectInput is like this, it's an xbox gamepad with a bigger stick, no proper sensitivity to it whatsoever. It's designed for retarded gorillas so they can act like cool kids while all they can do is bang the stick around to it's extremes. What I would expect out of a joystick, which is Not a fucking gamepad, is that if I set the deadzone to zero, just tensing up the wimpy little muscles in my arm should induce movement! That is the minimum acceptable level of sensitivity and quality for a decent joystick!
For this price, I didn't really expect to get that kinda quality, but at least a little more finesse. A little less flailing around with it to get the small movements I want out of it.

Anyways, with the little time I spend in SC, this will do for a while. I'll get used to it. Still need to find a comfortable position for it.

It's sad really, nothing I tried from this low and mid range comes even close to a 15 year old plastic toy stick (MS Sw 3d pro). That includes the T16K and the Saiteks X52 and such. All are just cheap junk... I'm yet to try a Virpil, but somehow I doubt it's actually any better in this regard. I tried a warthog once, it was a display model so it was properly fuckered already, so I can't judge that. Can't afford those anyways.
I've been toying with the idea of making my own stick for years via ebay parts and 3d printing (have access to one).
*in JC's voice* How Hard Can it Be??