someone said. . .

Shadow Reaper

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. . .in an SC vid the other day, that personal armor will not allow you to be in vacuum, but rather than you need a vacuum suit. Does anyone know if this is true?

It would make sense that in order to board a ship, you need a docking collar unless you have protection form vacuum. No collar, you can enter a downed ship from any broken turret but you can't wear armor? That would give an ENORMOUS advantage to defenders-the kind of thing CIG has been talking about for ages.It would also make the Redeemer more useful and the Hoplite less so.

Anyone know the scoop on this?
 
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Grimbli

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Our spacesuit armors seem to be pretty airtight. And also work currently in space.

Did they mean there will be personal armor similar to body armor? If so, I could see that. If the current armor won't work in space eventually and someone blows a hole in the ship to board then neither side could use armor as the ship would be breached.

However, if you board a ship in armor and the crew decides to vent the air locks then you're taken out with no effort at all. That seems to be counterintuitive to the gameplay they want to portray. I think the kinds of advantages CIG has been hinting at for defenders is that they will respond after death and the invaders risk a high chance of perma-dying with that character.
 

Shadow Reaper

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I think CIG has backed away from the permadeath notion, as they realized they will lose players that way. There has been a lot of discussion as to what the penalty will be for dying, but I don't think it will be that. Longer spawn times the more you die might be the answer. There has also been floated the notion that any given name can only be respawned X number of times (9 has been suggested several times) and then you have to use another name, but that your stuff will be forwarded to the new name. They have to forward your stuff since you pay for your account and LTI doesn't count for anything if you lose all your ships when you die. Only time will tell. I would note that several games have early in their development made commitments to permadeath and eventually found it was not a workable solution. Death should hold a serious inconvenience, but losing your character and holdings is a bit too much for most players to consent to.

Chris Roberts has said several times however, that boarding action defenders will have an advantage in ship boardings, and he seems to have implied pretty strongly this involves the ability to set up personal shields, hide behind strategic barriers, etc. Just as it should be, IMHO.

I'm glad to hear the armor works as a vacuum suit. This implies one can enter through turrets once they've been blown, etc. and leaves the Hoplite as a great choice for privateering craft. The fact they no longer plan a docking collar on the Cutlass says to me you shouldn't need a docking collar to board.
 

Grimbli

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The idea of permadeath is that you would have all shops and holdings transferred to your "next of kin" and retain all wealth, but your next character would lose a chunk of reputation with whomever they were allied.

Now this could be a good thing if you were a pirate. You'd be less known and less hunted by the UEE, but pirate factions wouldn't know you as well and you wouldn't have access to certain black markets (supposedly).

It's an interesting system and I hope they keep it, but I haven't been keeping up to date on AtV.
 

Bruttle

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I've never heard such thing, and sincerelly, I really hope they keep the permadeath concept.

Also, I don't think SC player base has nothing against permadeath, quite the opposite.
I don't know, I'm still on the fence about the whole permadeath thing. It does break your character immersion. Over time, your character becomes your online persona. It is the pixel representation of you. On a long term game (which hopefully SC will be), people begin to know you by your character. For instance, I have been going by the name Bruttle in almost every single MMO that I have played (which is quite a few) since my first mmo everquest. By this point, it is entirely possible that more people know me as "Bruttle" than by my real name. This brings up a whole new discussion about which is my "real" name at this point, but that is a whole different subject.

Permadeath breaks that. Now, it is my understanding, that you can name your "next of kin" the same name but then that turns permadeath into just another version of a death tax. This is just star citizens version of XP loss upon death. You keep all your ships, money, and most of your reputations. If you keep all of that, it really is just a death tax and calling it permadeath is just attaching a colorful name to a very old concept.

Then there's the whole reason for permadeath. It is to provide risk. After all, if you don't lose anything on death, the game would have a significant lack of excitement. Just look at COD. There is no risk in dying. You just do less good. This has led the game to evolve into the run and gun that we all know. The matches are full of players that are content to throw two grenades, die, respawn, and repeat ad nauseam. Noobtubers, if you would.

Permadeath offers a way to combat this. However, it doesn't work evenly. To most players, it offers a death tax. In doing so, it offers risk to gameplay that doesn't carry any other form of risk. To activities that already carry risk, it doubles up that risk. For example, a player gets together with their org mates and they all invest in a huge cargo load and set up shipment and protection for it.

Those players are all taking a risk. They risk their cargo investment. This could be a very large risk depending on route and volume of investment. Now, enter the pirates. They are free to attack that shipment with little to no risk. This is what I see as the purpose of permadeath. It offers a risk to pirate activity. Most pvp games with stealable goods don't offer anything like this. This leads to an increase in pirate activity and a serious disadvantage to non-pvp activities.

Take Archeage, for instance. The lack of risk has led to a disproportionate balance. For every one player doing legitimate trade, there is easily 100 players waiting to take the trade goods. This is because the game offers little to no risk of theft activities. Why spend weeks building the resources for trade goods if you can just steal the finished product from other players without any time or financial investment.

So, ultimately, permadeath is a good thing. I like the idea. However, it needs to be presented in a way that will actually be effective. It can't be just another death tax. It has to be an actual risk. It can't be severe right off the bat though. Otherwise, it is just doubling up on the risk of legitimate activities.

So to me, for permadeath to be a positive thing, it has to incur increasing amounts of risk. If you die once, it's not bad. If you die a dozen times (or are jailed repeatedly) in too short a period of time, you start risking your ships, money, and all your progress. At least, something along those lines. It needs to offer enough risk to balance without flooding any occupations with too much risk. It will be a delicate balance of permadeath, crime systems, and insurance.

So when I say I like the idea of permadeath, it comes with the caveat that the other systems are just as necessary. Because, permadeath is just one portion of a system that just might work this time. I, for one, seriously hope they can pull it off.
 

Han Burgundy

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Permadeath will be what sets this game apart from everything else. I want to form an emotional connection to my character and be reminded of past adventures and close calls as I examine the scars and replacement parts that I've collected over the years. While in danger, I want to always have that uncertainty of "Will this be the BIG one? Will I lose this character forever if I mess up?" To me, that would add a whole depth to your character and what it means to get out of a mission with your life. That will always be more impactful to my experience than any death tax ever will be.

What CIG needs to make sure of is that they offer the player options to safeguard themselves against the oncoming permadeath. It absolutely must not be luck of the draw. If I take great lengths to perform heath-improving procedures to my character, I should be able to strike one of my quasi-death point thingys off my record to reward me for spending effort on my character's well-being. A healthy and well managed character that operates with reasonable caution should be effectively "invincible" as far as character continuity goes.

(Still doesnt solve the risk/reward of pirating for those who dont really care. But for me, this will be a motivator to survive.)

/$0.02
 
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Grimbli

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What CIG needs to make sure of is that they offer the player options to safeguard themselves against the oncoming permadeath. It absolutely must not be luck of the draw. If I take great lengths to perform heath-improving procedures to my character, I should be able to strike one of my quasi-death point thingys off my record to reward me for spending effort on my character's well-being. A healthy and well managed character that operates with reasonable caution should be effectively "invincible" as far as character continuity goes.
They did state that having certain expensive surgeries can remove one of your "deaths" so hopefully that will allow you to keep yourself safe.
 

Shadow Reaper

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In a true permadeath game like StarWars Combine, you lose everything your character owns. Since we pay for stuff like ship insurance, CIG can't do that. So attempts toward permadeath will result in a bunch of silly names with numbers in them. Boingo 23 is not really scary any more than Boingo 2, in that it really matters how Boingo died each time. People will start second accounts just to do the dangerous work like boarding actions, etc. Although I like the idea behind permadeath, I have never seen it work well. I'm not even sure its possible. Personally I think extending the spawn time after each death is a much better idea. If you've been killed six times and need to wait a day to respawn, you will think twice about getting yourself killed and making it two days.
 

Crymsan

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Death penalties are never an easy issue. If you have no penalty people take crazy risk and lets be honest it doesn't matter. If the penalty is harsh people will loose a lot of work they have put in and are susceptible to mega griefing, which will definitely occur.

There are a lot of griefing opportunities on multi player ships to, i.e. just shoot a police office (npc) for example from any number of stations, or a pc who just fires back and so on. This game (fingers crossed) will be interesting.
 
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