Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 2

WHich of the listed is in yor hangar now?

  • 325A

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Hornet

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Avenger

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • Super Hornet

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Black Sunder

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Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 2

For Part 1 of this Talk go here. Because this is Part 2 I'll just presume no one read the first one and skip right to the Descriptions and Roles. Of note, these pictures were taken before CIG finally did away with the 'class' of hardpoints and just started naming where they go such as fixed, pylon, gimbal etc.



Thoughts on the Ships

General Thoughts on Stats

First let me acknowledge again that these stats and listed equipment are all subject to change. However, unless something drastic occurs in testing I would expect these stats to still give a good general direction and capability for each ship. Below is a link to a composite picture I made with all the stats listed from the RSI site and ordered by power plant size of all things but it worked out well enough:

All Stats for Part 2 Ships

Descriptions and Roles

ps I know the pic says Focus instead of Role but the plural of Focus(Foci) just sounds awful when read over and over.

The first ship to kick off Part 2 is the 325A, or "I'm just a better 300I". The 325 boasts an advanced weapons payload over the 300I and sports a custom targeting system made just for the ship which makes it perfect for its intended Interdiction role. The Hornet, at least the civilian version presented here, is a very tough and dedicated little fighter and the hammer of UEE naval might. The Civilian Hornet is very customizable and able to meet the play style of any individual while fulfilling its role of close support.

The Avenger is up next. Its Roles include Interception and interdiction which it seems to be able to accomplish with a much larger than normal engine. As an older design it may not be the most shiny piece of equipment to fly but it has been used for a long time by the UEE Advocacy which should indicate it is a very reliable ship.

Last but not least we come to the big daddy, the Super Hornet. This thing is as close as you can get to the UEE military version without being in the military. It sees a return of the ball turret to the space behind the 2nd pilot for additional firepower. The 2nd pilot can coordinate the many weapons to leave the first pilot free to concentrate on flying. Overall a very deadly opponent for its Role as space superiority.

Structure and Propulsion


A quick note on all of these ships, each one has a radically different silhouette when viewed from the side, front and top. While this is obvious to everyone it is important to know what angle you present to the enemy and show them the last amount of 'skin' to shoot at.

Interesting enough the 325A and SH share the same length at 24 meters. When we look at cargo capacity we see that all of these ships carry a generous beer cargo except for the SH that trades the cargo capacity for a 2nd pilot. TEST pilots have been known to strap a keg into the 2nd seat and fastening the harness around it so nothing happens to it while running a line to the front seat to sip on in the thick of combat. Anvil Aerospace does not recommend doing this as it voids the warranty.

All ships except the Super Hornet hold a class 3 power plant while the SH has a class 4 due to its increased weapon loadout and being based on the actual military version of the Hornet. For thrusters the 325A wins out again with 12 thrusters as opposed to 8 on the other ships which may make the 325A the most maneuverable of the lot but not the fastest. That potential winner goes to the Avenger which has less mass and a whopping TR5 engine compared to the TR4 of the others. As far as protection goes the 325A and Avenger both can hold a size 3 while the Hornets have a size 4 shield which lines up with their roles nicely. The 325A and Avenger are faster but the Hornets can take more of a hit and keep going.

Weapons


Click Click Boom. Weapons. Starting with the 325A its hard to see what advanced weapons payload it actually carries when looking back at the description. It isn't a bad weapons load out by any means and can certainly take things down but it also doesn't scream that it is there to really kill things despite its Interdiction Role. On the other hand the 325A comes equipped with the color Red which by Ork logic makes it go even faster.

Moving right we see the Hornet. In an interesting twist it carries no forward fixed weapons and instead mounts everything on gimbals and turrets while also having missiles. Though smaller in size than the 325A they can still do some damage. It is interesting to note that the ball turret form the military version is replaced with a cargo box for light loads.

Remember when the Avenger had that huge nose cannon on it? Remember how it was taken of for being too big. Well if you want it back go get a Vanguard. The weapons on the Avenger, like the 325A, are nothing too special but there may be an actual in fiction and real world reason for this and that which I'll get to below in the wrap-ups. It does carry the same size 3 missiles as the 325A to give it some extra punch over the Hornet.

Reaching the end of the list is the Super Hornet. Orks like this ship because of all the dakka it presents a person. Sporting the most weapons of any ship in this Talk it is a force to be reckoned with and with a good pilot and gunner combination it will rip apart anything of the same size and smaller. The weapons themselves are on gimbals and turrets meaning it has great strafe and circling potential while keeping it clear of fire. Just don't get in front of it and hope the pilot is a bad shot and you may live after the first volley.

Equipment


Rounding out the attributes is Equipment. There isn't much to look at here but here we go. The 325A supposedly has a custom weapons system that I'm still looking for but it doesn't come through on the stats. If anyone has information on this please post about it. To the right for the Hornet is the cargo box that takes the place of the Hornet's center ball turret allowing it to refuel wayward TEST members. The Avenger carries prisoner holding cells which rounds out its Interdiction and Interceptor role quite nicely.

Lastly the Super Hornet features a Jump Engine making it capable of leaving the system in its stock state but it has a limited fuel capacity meaning you will need to stop constantly before going to the next system. It has been said by SIG that all of these ships can be equipped with Jump Engines with the exception of the snub fighters so this isn't that big of an advantage when first buying it.

Continued Below....
 

Black Sunder

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The Long and Short


325A - This is probably on the low end of the 4 ships listed. It has the maneuverability and speed(Color Red!) but needs a good pilot to make it shine. It isn't very impressive on paper but it may be a beast in game. Something to think about though is if you need to carry small amounts of very valuable cargo and can afford something like this ship over say the 300I or an Aurora it may be worth your money to invest in this until you get a larger and more capable ship such as the Freelancer. Few people will want to pick a fight with a dedicated fighter and will prefer to hit a slower softer target like an Aurora CL before you. With the proper upgrades it can also be an ok explorer ship if you don't want to buy the 315P.

Hornet - What can we say? We all saw a version of this ship in the kickstarter campaign video and have seen it time and time again as the face ship of Star Citizen. Although its look has changed its core role has always been a dogfighter and that is what it is. Even though this is the civilian version it is still something to be feared. It carries an impressive shield allowing it to survive a long time in combat and allow it enough time to bring weapons to bear. It isn't fast by any means because of this but an ace pilot will use its slow speed to trick opponents by accelerating at the last moment or strafing out of the way. Many people want a fast and very maneuverable ship but others want a more reliable ship that won't let them down and the Hornet can be that for many people.

Avenger - Looking back at this I'm still unsure why I didn't get one but I will in game. It just looks gorgeous all around and very aerodynamic. It is fast, or at least has the potential with the TR5 engine. It may lack maneuverability but once you get going you'll get going. Expect to see many of these used by NPCs in the game as it is used by the police. Now back to the in fiction and real world explanation of why the Avenger isn't all it can be. Its old both in the game and since the kickstarter. It hasn't been looked at in a long time with the exception of the Variants being worked on right now it isn't likely to get any updates until they are released. The holding cells make it a contender for a first time bounty hunter's ship which gives that particular profession a lot of love as you don't see it much in games. Until the player can get enough money to purchase a Cutlass Blue the Avenger should suit them just fine.

Super Hornet - The Hornet on steroids. This may be the most multi functional of all the ships listed even with the lack of cargo space(2nd cargo seat not withstanding). It is a dedicated dogfighter with specs that almost align with those of the military Hornet. One on One it can take on anything of similar size and below and expect to win hands down. You can't go wrong with this ship. It has been sold numerous times in limited sales but isn't a permanent store edition. It was originally supposed to be 'THE ship" to get but has had its lightning stolen by other ships as they have been brought online and sold. Still a solid ship but it seems to have lost its mojo of late. VAAAAAAAANNNNNGUAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRD.


Closing Thoughts and Future Ship Talk

As last time this one as a bit difficult for me. I again apologize again for splitting this Talk into 2 parts but 8 ships was just too much for one sitting. After having read about these ships I'm convinced I want an Avenger in my hangar just for the look it has. I'm not too sure about the new Aegis direction of sticking the cockpit so far in front and leaving it so vulnerable but it does offer good visibility.

For the next Ship Talk we're switching gears and I will be taking on the top Cargo Haulers currently on the books. I will NOT be talking about the Hull series though until it comes out and even then it will be its own Talk when it does. The next Talk will be about the Aurora CL, Constellation Taurus, Freelancer MAX, Starfarer, Caterpillar, and the Banu MM. Look forward to it next Friday.



Now its YOUR Turn

It was suggested to me by Space Monkey that since I'm just going off the paper stats that I don't know how these ships handle in the game and the stats only provide so much of the picture. I don't have a computer capable of playing SC yet unfortunately so I need some help from you guys. The other factor here is I'm trying to limit myself somewhat on writing these so they don't become TOO long which I may have already failed at but would surely be much longer if I had played the ships myself and gave my thoughts on how they felt to me.

Back to my request though, if any of you desire, please make a post below detailing your thoughts and feelings on the 4 ships listed. How do they fly and handle? Are they dependable or do they break easily from everything? I'll link to your comments just below this for people to quickly find and jump to.

Adiran gives his thoughts on these fine ships. Nice wall of text too and good read.
WarrenPeace gives his thoughts on these fine ships.

Until next time drink fast and crash dangerously.
 
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PhosphorusForFun

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Well done! I believe the custom targeting package allows the 325A to lock on to 4 different enemies and fire all 4 missiles at the same time. I tried it once with and thought it was cool, but usually ended up just focusing half-salvos so haven't even tried this on the other ships
 

Adiran

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Here is my 2 cents on this subject.

I have played with the Mustang Alpha/Bravo,Gladius, Hornet F7C, and Aurora LN. I have flown each ship several times in both space and in atmo (race map) and I can honestly say each one performs differently. That in and of itself is why I love this game so much. Most other games every ship performs the same, not in this game. The Gladius in particular performs differently between space and atmosphere.

First the Mustang Alpha/Beta: The mustang has become my favorite ship. I have to admit that in the beginning I hated it. The look, the stats... But then I flew it!!! 200m/s top speed and nimble with gimbaled turret under the cockpit. Looking at just stats you will notice that apart from the mass being 3.5k different they are identical and handle the same. You really do not feel the extra weight. Making me wonder if you will even notice a difference besides fire power between these 2 and the Delta talked about here. The throttle is responsive stopping fast and speeding up quickly. The fire power is the real difference here when you are considering just straight up fighting. The delta comes with more guns and has a more robust setup for fighting offering one extra slot for weapons. Apart from that the base starting setup is identical apart from weighing less. And considering there is no discernable difference in handling between alpha and beta when there is so much weight difference than alpha to delta ( delta is 500 less) The level of agility with the extra fire power makes it my favorite for all around ability.

Second the Aurora LN: This ship has one thing going for it. Its yellow!! :P All joking aside it is surprisingly capable considering its a combat/patrol craft based off a cargo hauling platform. This Roach is slow!!! only 150m/s top speed but at its slow speed you don't need to adjust the throttle unless you are making U turns. The nice thing here is 2 of the turrets are class 2 allowing you to gimbal half your fire power. Making those little tweaks to hit your target all the easier to do. Most of the time your flying this ship everyone is doing circles around you, but the mix of gimbaled/fixed firepower and missiles means you are in the middle killing anything that comes in front of you. But it truly does feel harder to hit and can take more punishment than you think. I have had an almost all red ship and still took several hits more before actually being disabled. By far the best tactic I see for this ship is going to be swarms. Landing on our enemy and overwhelming them with firepower will play to this ships strengths best.

Third the Gladius: This ship is free to play for a week but my buddy has this ship and he let me fly around in it before they let everyone ells fly it. Even though the description says "A fast, light fighter with a laser focus on dog fighting" I believe this does not quite accurately tell about how the ship actually flies. I say this ship more deserves the Interception role. Its simple and light designed makes it the smallest of the fighters. Because of that even with its engine size it is the fastest I have flown. 240m/s top speed means it will catch any other ship in the game currently (Don't know the top speed of the 300 series ships though, likely the same or very close to the same). The biggest downfall in a dog fight IMO is the maneuvering thrusters. They are size 1 compared to size 2 most other ships have. That mixed with the faster speed means tight turns require a lot of throttle work to be precise. If you don't have/use your boosters in a tight turn you will "Drift" like crazy. I haven't seen another ship drift so much. Good throttle control and boosters can give it very fast and precise turns you pull a lot of G force and often you will almost pass out if not pass out if you do to many successively. This ship also performs differently in atmo. To sharp of turns and you will lose altitude just like a regular jet fighter. Yes its nimble but advanced piloting skills are needed to do it and maintain control. As far as firepower goes this ships is very deadly. Meaning it can not only catch but kill what it catches. The wing gun mounts are size 2 allowing size 2 gimbals with size one turrets. Leaving you with 3 gimbaled turrets making all your direct firepower being focused on one point. That and the missiles it has give it a lot of punch very fast. The only down side is the sustainability of the stock setup. with 3/5 of the weapon mounts having limited ammo once the fight goes so far you are far less effective.

Last the Hornet F7C: This ship is the most capable as far as overall performance and damage sustainment. Quick and nimble with a top speed of 200m/s matching the mustang. This ship is however one step up on the nimble scale and can have more firepower to bring to the fight as well as sustain more damage. I have seen a hornet lose its entire rear end. Both main engines and still fly around on the maneuvering thrusters. My mustang losses a lot of maneuverability when only one thruster is lost, and the aurora loses all maneuverability if one ore more thrusters are gone. Imagine just the cockpit and the circle part behind it... that is what was flying around out killing my aurora. one variant I saw custom setup with 6 class 1 laser turrets!! I can tell with the new hard point setup this last patch they toned down its custom firepower, but with rockets being dumb fire it can do good damage against a big slow ship and still dogfight with any other ship. Throttle control and boosters make it capable of turning on a dime at max speed and spin circles when needed to outmaneuver whatever its fighting. This ship can be piloted well by new and old players but in the right hands you really cant compete against it when the fight gets really close.
 

WarrenPeace

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I'll throw in my opinion on this topic too, viewed through my beer goggles.

Until recently, I owned a 325a, an Avenger, and a Gladius. But the 325 has been melted to help pay for my Vanguard. Why? Because IMO, it brings nothing to the table you can't get performance-wise out of the Gladius, or aesthetics/utility-wise out of the Avenger. The Avenger is the smallest and lightest of the three, yet manages to have double the cargo of the 325a. It has room for a gigantic engine mount currently, and its weapon loadout is decent. I remain convinced that its main gun will be buffed at some pointas its performance is sadly lacking currently. That Gladius on the other hand is faster than the 325a, mounts similar weapons, and from what I can tell is far more agile. I am currently too poor a pilot to judge for myself, but I have seen them handled in Free-For-All battles with a great deal of skill. That said, the 325 does straddle the middle ground between the two nicely, so if you can only afford one, it is definitely worth a look.

I don't actually own a hornet of any flavor, though I have flown them a good deal with various loaner models. Compared to the Mustangs, the 300 series, and the Gladius and Avenger, these are slow and sluggish. They accelerate slow, turn slow, and have a relatively low top speed. So why are these considered top dog in AC right now? Two words: Firepower and Durability. These bad mamajamas have multiple mount points, such that they are able to carry enough guns to satisfy Neo.


"Lots of Guns"

The basic F7-C comes with 2 Bulldogs, and has a mount available up front that you could drop a canard turret onto. The military version mounts Mantis chainguns on the wings and repeaters on top, while the SuperHornet goes whole hog with a turret up top, a turret on the nose , and guns on the wings. As mentioned, Hornets can also take a pretty good beating. They'll have have their systems blown to bits and still keep delivering the pain. There's only two reasons I haven't actually bought one for myself: 1, I like to think of myself as a better, more sophisticated player than to simply pile on as many OP guns on one ship as possible and faceroll my way to victory. This is a fantasy, but I digress. The second is that I'm simply not very enamored of the Hornet's looks. It is definitely military and has a interesting aesthetic, but it just doesn't resonate with me.
 

SPRNinja

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Ok, my ten cents, now that ive done quite a bit of flying in the gladius, 325a, hornet and superhornet.

The gladius and 325 seem pretty close if im honest, IMHO both a bit light on weaponry, though of course this is always getting adjusted. The ship I have in my hangar (the first ship i pledged and still in my hangar) is a 325 and I'm very very happy with it, yes i wish it had a bit more firepower, but it's very fast and very manouverable and i generally rack up a pretty greusome killscore in AC (expecially vanduul swarm). The Gladius is pretty good (especially with the gimballed gatling on the nose.) Its fast, manouverable and cant ake a few hits. But it seems to have 2 archillies heels, the oft-quoted stupid glare effect, and the fact that you grey out in every turn.

The hornets are excellent fighters, and second on my list of next ship to get, the superhornet's frontal firepower and survivability are second to none, with the normal hornet only lacking in the ball turret, which im hoping you will be able to buy for it (in the PU if not sooner) The only thing i would like to change is to be able to put size 2 missiles on it as well as/instead of size 1's
 
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