WALL OF TEXT Pirates vs Griefers: why you're thinking about it wrong.

[maynard]

I expect piracy in the PU to be like it is IRL off the Horn of Africa. Crews ships and cargoes will be held for ransom.

So the question will be whether the ransoms cover the losses to bounty hunters and angry, vengeful orgs.

But lots of pew pew pew

 

[Black Sunder]

My opinion is that if it increases tears from other large orgs its good. Pirating individuals I'm more iffy about especially if we are able to tell how new they are to the game. Outright repeat targeting of individuals not in a big org I'm against. Big orgs A-OK. Wipe them out.

 

[glockjs]

Too bad the company f'd darkfall up so hard otherwise i'd still prob be playing. SC isn't going to full loot per say but there will be real gains and losses. The high's are high and the low's are low but I miss the shit out of it.

 

[maynard]

My opinion is that if it increases tears from other large orgs its good...Wipe them out.

It's still not clear to me what is going to be the conflict driver between orgs. We definitely need one. But feuds over piracy won't be epic enough to escalate. We need scarce resources to compete for. How you make that happen without allowing players to corner the markets is a serious game design challenge.

 

[Bruttle]

So I have been doing research into the matter off and on over the day. We all know that the events going on in the game now are not representative of the final product. The griefing and the camping that are spawning all this conversation won't be an issue in the final product. What I didn't know, was how far from the current state CIG and CR's vision actually is. I picked up hints and tidbits of information that they've released over the years. Of course, not all of it will be implemented in the game. Some of it is just undeveloped ideas and "thinking out loud" sort of mentality. Regardless, here are some of the concepts they have talked about in their lore and press releases.

• There will be certain areas that NO insurance will honor. The spider "planet" in the cathcart system is just one example. Here is the excerpt in the description: "No insurance company will begin to insure a spacecraft visiting Cathcart."

• There is the possibility that insurance companies will drop their coverage upon warrant issuance.

• Boarding ships is intended to be highly risky and very costly. Cutting into a ship will take a very long time by design and will allow the ship crew to prepare countermeasures or get help to arrive.

• Pirates will need to carry specialty insurance and it will be much more expensive. Think space SR22.

• Pirates will need to monitor trade profitability to determine where the most likely active trade routes will be. Space is going to be huge. It is supposed to be difficult to pick out one ship or convoy in the expanse.

• The main, steady income of pirates may turn out to be the black market instead of stealing cargo from other players.

Honestly, most of this will end up with workarounds. Pirates will find a way to bypass most of the countermeasures even if it's something simple like multiple accounts. I can see that really turning out to be a thing. The point is though, it isn't going to be a "hands off" system where the players are allowed to run around unchecked. They've had quite a few years to think about all this. The events of Grim Hex will likely solidify the need for some sort of checks and balances to be in place.

 

[GrammarGestapo]

stuff
.

Of course there are negatives to being a pirate. You're a wanted criminal.. If the main income of being a "pirate" is not in fact piracy but drug running however, then you're just a trader who can't trade things in high sec and no one will do it. I most likely will never be able to really set foot in high sec for an extended period on my pirate main. That is not a problem. I have a good-guy alt for general usage.

There will places in high sec where piracy will be extremely high risk or even impossible, don't you worry your little head. There will be places in low and null where it will thrive.

 

[Varku]

My opinion is that if it increases tears from other large orgs its good. Pirating individuals I'm more iffy about especially if we are able to tell how new they are to the game. Outright repeat targeting of individuals not in a big org I'm against. Big orgs A-OK. Wipe them out.

Well, most new players are safe from me, as i won'tl engage any ships smaller than a Freelancer, as the risk is to high for the little reward, they may or may not carry in their little cargo bay.

Oh and if i ever go the Pirate route, this is how it may work for me:
Ship to Ship message:" I'm so sorry that my Dataspike missle hit you and disabled your engine, but i just wanted to be shure, that you're listening to me. See, i don't want to harm you, your crew or even your ship. I just want a share of your cargo.
Here is my offer to you: You open your cargo bay, and we won't take all of it, and won't kill anybody.
If you wish we would even help you to get your ship started again,
or you choose Option #2: We open your cargo bay, this will cost both of us time and money, and we will take all your stuff.
And if you try to attack us while we take all your stuff, we will destroy your ship, after we're finished.
I think we can both agree, that option #1 is the better choice here, isn't it? You have 30 seconds to open the Cargobay. Thank you for your cooperation."

 

[Crymsan]

Well I do hope there are valuable cargos to run that are not all bulk freight but we shall see. Even if its data.

 

[Varku]

Well I do hope there are valuable cargos to run that are not all bulk freight but we shall see. Even if its data.

i'm pretty shure there is valuable cargo that dosen't require much space, but when you have less space, you can also carry less of this valuable but small cargo(lower reward). And small ships are more nimble, and have a better chance to fight back (higher risk).

 

[fiarce]

Well, most new players are safe from me, as i won'tl engage any ships smaller than a Freelancer, as the risk is to high for the little reward, they may or may not carry in their little cargo bay.

Oh and if i ever go the Pirate route, this is how it may work for me:
Ship to Ship message:" I'm so sorry that my Dataspike missle hit you and disabled your engine, but i just wanted to be shure, that you're listening to me. See, i don't want to harm you, your crew or even your ship. I just want a share of your cargo.
Here is my offer to you: You open your cargo bay, and we won't take all of it, and won't kill anybody.
If you wish we would even help you to get your ship started again,
or you choose Option #2: We open your cargo bay, this will cost both of us time and money, and we will take all your stuff.
And if you try to attack us while we take all your stuff, we will destroy your ship, after we're finished.
I think we can both agree, that option #1 is the better choice here, isn't it? You have 30 seconds to open the Cargobay. Thank you for your cooperation."

This is great, except that through conditioning, and folks that make the same claim and don't stick to it, I wonder how long this strategy would really be viable. I suppose pirate rep may help... "this pirate only took half my shit +1!"

 

[Lexicon]

I suppose pirate rep may help... "this pirate only took half my shit +1!"

"That pirate lied to me! I'm only giving him a half-star review on Yelp!"

 

[NKato]

It goes without saying that I make a very clear distinction between pirates and people who are in it for the sake of killing.

Pirates = For Profit.

Marauders = LOL UR DED

Both have an economic need, but they prioritize one thing over the other. Marauders tend to lean a lot more towards the griefing aspect, too.

 

[Varku]

PS: just want to add Option #3 to my list: If you have any Cookies on board, give them to me, and you're free to go.

If i'm good enough all the Traders will have a box of Cookies on board, just in case some crazy Pirate like me passes by :D

 

[Murderer]

I'd like to submit we host anti-grieving squads for those of us who are in Grim-Hex without really wanting to be there

 

[Doctor Antelope]

It goes without saying that I make a very clear distinction between pirates and people who are in it for the sake of killing.

Pirates = For Profit.

Marauders = LOL UR DED

Both have an economic need, but they prioritize one thing over the other. Marauders tend to lean a lot more towards the griefing aspect, too.

I would disagree a little bit that there is a "very clear distinction". This being a game and all, anyone in piracy for the profit, almost certainly isn't in it strictly for the profit. Pirates in this game won't be doing it because it's the easiest/only way to put food on the table, there will be some element of doing it because it's fun. As you put it "lol ur ded".

 

[AstroSam]

I agree. I guess, people who are playing pirates are the most badass-pilotes in the verse, always seeking the next challenge. If there is profit, fine, its taken - but not necessary. In opposite to the griefers, who basically hide, kill and run, thus not seeking anything but destroying the fun of other players.

 

[Doctor Antelope]

As the game gets closer to being complete and more factors like ship cost, component cost, insurance, and even character death come into play, pirates will obviously have to pick their targets more carefully. That will translate into picking profitable targets of course. However there will also be targets picked simply for the glory, rare ships (maybe we try to steal it, maybe we just blow it up to say we did), high profile player (leader of another org, or even CR), or just silly stuff like making a player sing/dance for us if they don't want to walk the plank.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[DansAFK]

This.
I enjoy PVP in most of the games I play. I've played WoW for years and never took an interest in the PVE aspect of it. And even though I enjoyed fighting in battlegrounds or arenas, I made the huge mistake of joining a PVP server. That means that on your server, you can be attacked wherever (with some restrictions) and whenever. That I didn't like.
If Star Citizen will have a "PVP meter", I'll slide that bar down to zero. If I feel like PVP-ing, I'll hop into Arena Commander. But I don't want my huge time investment (a massive haul, for example) to go to waste if I'm attacked by a pirate and looted. That's not enjoyable for me.
If I flag myself for PVP, fine. I acknowledge the risk of meeting pirates and getting looted. But I'd rather have to option to choose if I want to expose myself to such encounters.
It's not because I'm not a fan of PVP. I am. I'm just not a fan of investing time into something and having it taken away without my consent.

I doubt you will be able to be 100% safe with your hard earned cargo, however sticking to hi-sec routes or safer trading runs should in theory keep you safe from the bandit/ pirate groups looking to steal all your stuff.

For me it will be the first time you use your profits to hire a player escort and take a risky high profit trade run in a low sec zone with risk of losing it all ; that I imagine you will get the adrenaline pumping gameplay that will keep you coming back to play this sandbox mmo. Even more so if you get attacked and manage to keep hold of your goods. It adds excitement, risk and reward to keep things fresh while making trade runs.

 

[DansAFK]

Iv just had another thought, you could get some really creative "Avenger Warlock" pilots, who escort trade convoys. If pirates show up you could EMP them to make them easy meat for a hornet to swoop in and finish them while they get no shields. This tactic would also make pirates target the avengers first with missiles to avoid getting emp'd at initiation by trying to take them out first. This avenger warlock tactic could be used to buy convoys time to jump away to safety.

 

[fiarce]

This avenger warlock tactic could be used to buy convoys time to jump away to safety.

Electric space penguin to the rescue!