What are your thoughts on this whole prison gameplay loop?

Vashpede

Commander
Donor
Dec 4, 2019
120
452
100
RSI Handle
Vashpede
The other aspect I haven't seen mentioned here is the intent to push griefers and wannabe criminals into pockets of space where there is no law enforcement, so they can all hang out together and do criminal things to each other.

Obviously, if you are a criminal, would you try to do illegal stuff where the cops are, or where the cops aren't? Sure, every now and again groups of criminals will raid lawful space, but for the most part, having law enforcement strong in some areas will push the criminals to hang out in areas where the police (and UEE Navy) aren't.
Luke Pressley also talked about how he wanted ships to have "black boxes" that might record what happened. So if your ships box is recovered after some dick blew it up or maybe it recorded someone boarding and stealing your items, that could be turned in and give that player criminal charges where no one would have seen it. It is not a confirmed feature by any means but sounds like something he wants to push for.
 

Grimbli

Space Marshal
Jan 27, 2016
3,367
12,310
1,910
RSI Handle
Grimbli
It's so complex, not every law is applied everywhere, different jurastriction zones have different values on different crimes, so only because you are a wanted criminal on Hurston doesn't mean that you are a criminal on Arccorp.
I'm assuming in the future when theres more systems they'll change it to be a crimestat system wide, but the next jump point it won't be in that system.

That'll also create the bounty hunter gameplay. Where systems will pay money for a player to jump into other systems and bring the criminal back.

Pirates may get a high bounty in one system by hijacking envoys and retreat to their lawless home to avoid capture. Flying along oblivious until a bounty hunter comes upon them and think, "Oh shit, I have that bounty in Stanton, I better run from this guy!"
 

Talonsbane

Grand Admiral
Donor
Jul 29, 2017
2,791
10,644
1,100
RSI Handle
Talonsbane
Just a reminder that some seem to have forgotten has been mentioned by CIG about this prison mechanic. They are also intending on having some missions requiring going into prison to either assassinate somebody, to protect somebody or to help break somebody out of prison. They are also planning on having hidden mission givers within some of the prisons that have different tasks that might lead you to other goals or targets to deal with outside as well as the potential for various factions reputation increases.

I suspect that CrimeStat 1, you'll not be bothered, but lawful NPC's will not offer you discounts if they usually would based on the reputation system until you pay off the fine.
Crimestat 2, you might get hassled by the security guards at lawful stations & told to go pay your fine at the kiosk before you're allowed to do any business there.
Crimestat 3, that's when the bounty hunters & cops start looking for you to either extract a fine or you go to the prison for a short time.
Crimestat 4, higher bounties on you & the cops start shooting 1st, looking for your fine to be payed on in jail.
Crimestat 5, they send the military after you to take you out.

The higher your crime stat, the higher the fine & thus the longer the sentence as it should be. What I'd like to know is, will there be different types of prison that they send more hardcore offenders than somebody that couldn't slow down their Cat full of Titanium quickly enough when interdicted for scanning that couldn't afford the fine?
 

Phil

Space Marshal
Donor
Nov 22, 2015
657
1,577
1,500
RSI Handle
Bungtater
I agree not a fan, but I need more details, this would be a great mechanic for the extreme abusers, say griefers, someone keeps flying his ship into people at ports or doing something excessive then ya sit in jail and rot but for the occasional crime or mistake I think it would become more of an issue, again without knowing the exact details I cant say I am a fan, plus I think there are other things they could have been working on than this, this could have come out much later as an addon, update or expansion, why they are dumping time into this I don't understand it.
 

invalidData

Commander
Jan 18, 2020
36
131
100
RSI Handle
invalidData
Crimestat 3, that's when the bounty hunters & cops start looking for you to either extract a fine or you go to the prison for a short time.
Imagine if cops and bounty hunters had a fine kiosk on board and you can pay there. lol I think the bounty hunter should get a share of the fine then.
What I'd like to know is, will there be different types of prison that they send more hardcore offenders than somebody that couldn't slow down their Cat full of Titanium quickly enough when interdicted for scanning that couldn't afford the fine?
I think every jurisdiction will have their own prisons, but I like the idea. Maybe the UEE will get a high scentence, high security prison for crimestat 5 customers.
I think there are other things they could have been working on than this, this could have come out much later as an addon, update or expansion, why they are dumping time into this I don't understand it.
Well, there will always be other stuff they could work on...
I think they want to get rid of placeholder mechanics of early implementations like we got propper quantum interdiction in 3.7 instead of the fake one that only NPC Cutlasses could cheat in.
So now they do the crime system and I think it's importent to be able to put abusive players into place in a good way. Maybe they need prisons for Squadron 42.
A proper law and order system is crucial, in an open world game to bring it alive, especially when you want players to be on both sides of the law.

At the moment you are not able to draw a gun in certain areas like Area 18 but that is manipulating on what players can do and they don't want that.
They want to change that so you can draw a weapon in Area 18 and shot someone in the face but they don't want you to do it and they don't want other players to be spawncamped and have their nonviolent fun destroyed. This is why they need a proper version of the crime system where you get real consequences for doing bad things, not just get shot by the police, lose some money and respawn. They want to get rid of the noflightzones as well so they need to be able to handle people who ram their 890 jump into casaba outlet where you just want to buy some new shirts.

At the moment they have a very limited amount of places wher you can't draw a gun or you can't fly, so it's better to change that now then if they had to put the work of creating those zones for every new planet and station and then change it later. Maybe they have to activate their, now dead, checkpoints at the spaceports, maybe they have to tweak some places and props to make it all work properly, so it's better to build new places with the new system in place instead of fumble around with everything later again.

It's like with planettec v4, they had to redo all the existing planets that where build wit the older technology. Imagine that when you're 20 systems in.
 

Tei

Commander
Dec 8, 2019
47
102
100
RSI Handle
TeiwazWolf
Sometimes I have a feeling like they intentionally design game to be frustrating and so we cannot have fun. Or maybe just somebody have really wrong idea what is fun....
Surely, some praise reality and want immersion, but maybe there should be an option to do it if you think its fun, not forcing everybody to it.
Some of us have only lets say 1-2 hours or less per session, and this is already really smal fraction of that time spent on doing what we want to do, rest is necessary evil....

I for one dislike:
- long traversal times, both quantum and on ground - ask any new player how they like when they die first time and wake up in big location, say Loreville.... I bet most does not like experience. Quantum travels got shortened recently but just having them implemented like they were in place means that person in charge have different idea of fun than most of players. Many say it's still too long to quantum and I fully agree.

- removing ability to customize rented ships - this is just daft move, maybe should be done in released game, but definitely not in alpha

- eating, drinking, shiting, sleeping, washing minigames - I do not want to spend 10 minutes every hour to do this crap, I signed for space sim not bodily functions simulation...

- prisons - we do not know yet how they will be implemented but judging by what I already see in some game mechanics, I predict it will be frustrating and infuriating, just because you need to do entire prison term when logged... do I really skip going to pub to instead chip away rocks to be able to fly next day? I do not think so....

- often interdictions - those got reduced recently because people complained, but again, just having them implemented like they were in place means that person in charge have different idea of fun than most of players

- etc etc

So the problem is rather person in charge of those implementations and deciding what mechanics to be implemented. They are disconnected with reality of community expectations, maybe just reading only those few die hard deep immersion real life-simulation lovers on Spectrum, where average player do not post, and only open their eyes and make changes when loads people complain over Reddit....
I am frustrated that they waste so much time on reduing this, then repeat the same mistakes.... I swear, sometimes I think that this is their way of stalling.... ;)
 

Vashpede

Commander
Donor
Dec 4, 2019
120
452
100
RSI Handle
Vashpede
I agree not a fan, but I need more details, this would be a great mechanic for the extreme abusers, say griefers, someone keeps flying his ship into people at ports or doing something excessive then ya sit in jail and rot but for the occasional crime or mistake I think it would become more of an issue, again without knowing the exact details I cant say I am a fan, plus I think there are other things they could have been working on than this, this could have come out much later as an addon, update or expansion, why they are dumping time into this I don't understand it.
They did let us know why this came out earlier than other content during CitizenCon. The mission team was able to work without having to wait on specific code because this is a separate section to the game. It is in the CitizenCon "Locked-Up" video where he mentions that. I only know this because I happen to watch it yesterday haha.
 

Han Burgundy

Space Marshal
Jan 15, 2016
1,807
7,840
1,900
RSI Handle
Han-Burgundy
I'm holding my judgement for additional news on the SCU capacity of our character's butthole. If I cant keester a good half-scu, it'll devastate my immersion.
 

Bambooza

Grand Admiral
Sep 25, 2017
3,467
11,061
950
RSI Handle
MrBambooza
if they don't shorten travel times, your own ship is going to feel like a prison

not all 'immersion' is a good thing

remember, CIG, games are supposed to be fun
Amen to this. Immersion, cool, but make the game playable to those who don't necessarily have hours a day to spend just traveling.
Sometimes I have a feeling like they intentionally design game to be frustrating and so we cannot have fun. Or maybe just somebody have really wrong idea what is fun....
Surely, some praise reality and want immersion, but maybe there should be an option to do it if you think its fun, not forcing everybody to it.
Some of us have only lets say 1-2 hours or less per session, and this is already really smal fraction of that time spent on doing what we want to do, rest is necessary evil....

I for one dislike:
- long traversal times, both quantum and on ground - ask any new player how they like when they die first time and wake up in big location, say Loreville.... I bet most does not like experience. Quantum travels got shortened recently but just having them implemented like they were in place means that person in charge have different idea of fun than most of players. Many say it's still too long to quantum and I fully agree.

- removing ability to customize rented ships - this is just daft move, maybe should be done in released game, but definitely not in alpha

- eating, drinking, shiting, sleeping, washing minigames - I do not want to spend 10 minutes every hour to do this crap, I signed for space sim not bodily functions simulation...

- prisons - we do not know yet how they will be implemented but judging by what I already see in some game mechanics, I predict it will be frustrating and infuriating, just because you need to do entire prison term when logged... do I really skip going to pub to instead chip away rocks to be able to fly next day? I do not think so....

- often interdictions - those got reduced recently because people complained, but again, just having them implemented like they were in place means that person in charge have different idea of fun than most of players

- etc etc

So the problem is rather person in charge of those implementations and deciding what mechanics to be implemented. They are disconnected with reality of community expectations, maybe just reading only those few die hard deep immersion real life-simulation lovers on Spectrum, where average player do not post, and only open their eyes and make changes when loads people complain over Reddit....
I am frustrated that they waste so much time on reduing this, then repeat the same mistakes.... I swear, sometimes I think that this is their way of stalling.... ;)
It's not just an aspect of immersion its an aspect of risk/reward and gameplay balance. Right now they are balancing travel time around how quickly we can make money by mining and trading. The question that CIG has talked about they are attempting to grapple with is how to make travel time a factor without making it boring nor force people to travel great distances to do missions. They mentioned that they are addressing the missions aspect by making sure the missions assumption is giving are localized to the region you are currently in instead of having you fly from Hurston to Lorville and back for a 1k retrieval mission. We already are seeing the ability to pick your spawn points as well as stations over planets allowing those who don't want to fly down to planets. I fully expect the shorter travel times and shorter mission cycles to also be balanced around how much aUEC they generate. As to the desire to travel from Hurston to Pyro in 5 mins just because you want to explore the planet would be a foolish wish as travel times more then any other game aspect gives meaning to our actions. I do hope they continue to explore the possibility of allowing Agent smith and offline shuttle bus capability as that would allow one to join their friend without having to invest the time required to travel there in their own ship.

As for the prison system, it seems to be primarily crafted as a deterrent against the casual griefer that so many complain about. Those who just like to ram ships on the pads and shot others for no perceived reason. Of course, its initial implementation is going to negatively impact even those who wish to make a career out of being a criminal and pirate and will suck for them for the foreseeable future. But it has the potential to be a great solution allowing those who have the skills, connections, and understanding to skirt the law while those who are casual trouble makers a big stick that removes them from bothering others and reminds them to either be good or go play somewhere else.
 

Vashpede

Commander
Donor
Dec 4, 2019
120
452
100
RSI Handle
Vashpede
It's not just an aspect of immersion its an aspect of risk/reward and gameplay balance. Right now they are balancing travel time around how quickly we can make money by mining and trading. The question that CIG has talked about they are attempting to grapple with is how to make travel time a factor without making it boring nor force people to travel great distances to do missions. They mentioned that they are addressing the missions aspect by making sure the missions assumption is giving are localized to the region you are currently in instead of having you fly from Hurston to Lorville and back for a 1k retrieval mission. We already are seeing the ability to pick your spawn points as well as stations over planets allowing those who don't want to fly down to planets. I fully expect the shorter travel times and shorter mission cycles to also be balanced around how much aUEC they generate. As to the desire to travel from Hurston to Pyro in 5 mins just because you want to explore the planet would be a foolish wish as travel times more then any other game aspect gives meaning to our actions. I do hope they continue to explore the possibility of allowing Agent smith and offline shuttle bus capability as that would allow one to join their friend without having to invest the time required to travel there in their own ship.

As for the prison system, it seems to be primarily crafted as a deterrent against the casual griefer that so many complain about. Those who just like to ram ships on the pads and shot others for no perceived reason. Of course, its initial implementation is going to negatively impact even those who wish to make a career out of being a criminal and pirate and will suck for them for the foreseeable future. But it has the potential to be a great solution allowing those who have the skills, connections, and understanding to skirt the law while those who are casual trouble makers a big stick that removes them from bothering others and reminds them to either be good or go play somewhere else.
Agree with all of this! I love every aspect of what they are doing. This game is not meant to please everyone and I am sure it will have content for the casual player with less time, but it is most definitely geared towards being an immersive experience for the players that can invest the time into it so that is what they will base most decisions on. This is Chris Roberts dream game not anyone else, but it does align very close with my ideal dream game as well =)
 

invalidData

Commander
Jan 18, 2020
36
131
100
RSI Handle
invalidData
I do hope they continue to explore the possibility of allowing Agent smith and offline shuttle bus capability as that would allow one to join their friend without having to invest the time required to travel there in their own ship.
Never taught about this, it would be awesome.

I think you made a good point that it scares of casual thugs.
Your an Vashpedes comments triggered my brain again.
Prison, better Law system and the removal of the no shoot areas could open up a whole new detective, spie and underground gameplay.
New, hidden weapons, poison, ways to hide name tags and ways to reveal them. Stalk outs, chases, hide and seek.
That would be great content, don't know if I got the nerves to go deep in that but it would have so much potential for good storys.
Star Citizen Noir
We need fedoras ASAP for this.
 

Ayeteeone

Captain
Oct 22, 2018
25
132
200
RSI Handle
Ayeteeone
Luke Pressley also talked about how he wanted ships to have "black boxes" that might record what happened. So if your ships box is recovered after some dick blew it up or maybe it recorded someone boarding and stealing your items, that could be turned in and give that player criminal charges where no one would have seen it. It is not a confirmed feature by any means but sounds like something he wants to push for.
No reason not to have it, other than the time to code, because the necessary information is already in the logs. How that would be shown to the players is an interesting question.
 

Grimbli

Space Marshal
Jan 27, 2016
3,367
12,310
1,910
RSI Handle
Grimbli
No reason not to have it, other than the time to code, because the necessary information is already in the logs. How that would be shown to the players is an interesting question.
I'm hoping that players would have to actually recover the boxes in order to create real crime stats on others. I know some people will just be griefers, and it should be easy to identify them, but some people will legitimately pirate and if you're in a dangerous system it should be hard to prove.

Although I think griefers will congregate around populated zones to make it easy for themselves, which in hand would allow easy recovery of black box to prove they're killing you. They don't usually stick to dangerous areas where there are others willing to fight, just to occasionally find someone to mess with.
 

Ayeteeone

Captain
Oct 22, 2018
25
132
200
RSI Handle
Ayeteeone
I'm hoping that players would have to actually recover the boxes in order to create real crime stats on others. I know some people will just be griefers, and it should be easy to identify them, but some people will legitimately pirate and if you're in a dangerous system it should be hard to prove.

Although I think griefers will congregate around populated zones to make it easy for themselves, which in hand would allow easy recovery of black box to prove they're killing you. They don't usually stick to dangerous areas where there are others willing to fight, just to occasionally find someone to mess with.
Agreed. Most of the sociopathic types want easy victims with little effort.
 

Vashpede

Commander
Donor
Dec 4, 2019
120
452
100
RSI Handle
Vashpede
I'm hoping that players would have to actually recover the boxes in order to create real crime stats on others. I know some people will just be griefers, and it should be easy to identify them, but some people will legitimately pirate and if you're in a dangerous system it should be hard to prove.

Although I think griefers will congregate around populated zones to make it easy for themselves, which in hand would allow easy recovery of black box to prove they're killing you. They don't usually stick to dangerous areas where there are others willing to fight, just to occasionally find someone to mess with.
Yeah that is the cool thing, he went on to say you would have to recover black boxes and also could create potential game play of selling black boxes. This also allows someone to recover a criminals black box and turn it in to activate his/her crimes that were recorded if i remember correctly. He went on about different scenarios that seemed interesting with his idea.

 

Vashpede

Commander
Donor
Dec 4, 2019
120
452
100
RSI Handle
Vashpede
Never taught about this, it would be awesome.

I think you made a good point that it scares of casual thugs.
Your an Vashpedes comments triggered my brain again.
Prison, better Law system and the removal of the no shoot areas could open up a whole new detective, spie and underground gameplay.
New, hidden weapons, poison, ways to hide name tags and ways to reveal them. Stalk outs, chases, hide and seek.
That would be great content, don't know if I got the nerves to go deep in that but it would have so much potential for good storys.
Star Citizen Noir
We need fedoras ASAP for this.
Yeah I will check out this criminal game play during alpha but when release happens, I plan to avoid most criminal activity, but I also do not want to be a white knight. More of a grey area for me and my activities haha.
 
Forgot your password?