What do you think about this Borderland 3/Take-Two vs SupMatto thing?

[sum1]

TLDR: on what is going on. Gearbox ended up showing one of their twitch accounts on a stream. this cause the people to follow that account and the other Gearbox accounts connected to the first one. Whenever Gearbox did steam (with privacy turned on) to test come gameplay out the followers of the channels were able to still see the live thumbnail of the stream. so by taking that image, then refresh the page they could get a lot of info for any steam. these pictures were then shared. SupMatto, a YouTuber, then share there on his channel. This caused takedown notices and, here is where it gets crazy, two PIs hired by Take-Two, come knocking on his door and questioning him for 20-40 mins. Then within a half-hour of these people leaving his Discord channel and account were deleted.

SidAloha's video about it

So my question is, "What do you of you think about this? and will it affect you in any way?"

 

[Deroth]

If it was only PIs, how much beer money did they pay him?

 

[Montoya]

"Im going to boycot Take2, Rockstar and all the other properties" - Sidalpha

Well ok, I can respect and understand his idealism.

Me... fuck it, Ive been waiting for BL3 for some time now, this is not going to stop me from enjoying it.

TTWO overstepped big time by getting this guys channel strike. How they got his Discord account suspended is interesting, Im surprised discord went along with that. Is there more to the story we are not seeing?

But no, Im not boycotting Rockstar and Im buying BL3.

Fuck yo drama, Im going to play my games.

 

[sum1]

"Im going to boycot Take2, Rockstar and all the other properties" - Sidalpha

Well ok, I can respect and understand his idealism.

Me... fuck it, Ive been waiting for BL3 for some time now, this is not going to stop me from enjoying it.

TTWO overstepped big time by getting this guys channel strike. How they got his Discord account suspended is interesting, Im surprised discord went along with that. Is there more to the story we are not seeing?

But no, Im not boycotting Rockstar and Im buying BL3.

Fuck yo drama, Im going to play my games.

I have seen three videos on the matter. This seems to be about the amount of info that is out there. I personly don't know about where I land, like this stuff, and other the other shit that the CEO guy has been caught with his hand in the bs. Like I want to like the game, but these actions sicken me. Should we as the gaming community call-out bad apples? or do we let them fester because they make an awesome game? I mean personly the issue would be solved for me if Take-Two came out and said sorry, and never did it again. But do we have a moral obligation to the gaming society we love so much? Do we let scum bags into our groups? do we let games we love and gamers that we love get bullied, attacked and harassed without repercussions? all because we want the next game? I am asking honestly because I don't know what we should do.

 

[Bambooza]

"Im going to boycot Take2, Rockstar and all the other properties" - Sidalpha

Well ok, I can respect and understand his idealism.

Me... fuck it, Ive been waiting for BL3 for some time now, this is not going to stop me from enjoying it.

TTWO overstepped big time by getting this guys channel strike. How they got his Discord account suspended is interesting, Im surprised discord went along with that. Is there more to the story we are not seeing?

But no, Im not boycotting Rockstar and Im buying BL3.

Fuck yo drama, Im going to play my games.

I hear ya there is a lot of information we are not hearing and a lot of it is just not adding up. All I know is in the past two years this is the first pre order I've done and I am sticking with it.

I have seen three videos on the matter. This seems to be about the amount of info that is out there. I personly don't know about where I land, like this stuff, and other the other shit that the CEO guy has been caught with his hand in the bs. Like I want to like the game, but these actions sicken me. Should we as the gaming community call-out bad apples? or do we let them fester because they make an awesome game? I mean personly the issue would be solved for me if Take-Two came out and said sorry, and never did it again. But do we have a moral obligation to the gaming society we love so much? Do we let scum bags into our groups? do we let games we love and gamers that we love get bullied, attacked and harassed without repercussions? all because we want the next game? I am asking honestly because I don't know what we should do.

This is the thing. Do we know what honestly happened? Who did what and how it went down? At this point in time, there really is a lack of evidence only what was posted by supMatto as their opinion on what they feel transpired and for what reason, and so I find myself taking the default stance of innocent until proven otherwise.

 

[Montoya]

TTWO messed up in the way they handled this, no doubt there.

Its a good thing that prominent members of the gaming community are making a stink about it. Negative press like this is important so that TTWO understands that this kind of shit does not go unnoticed.

The question is, does your boycott affect their bottom line?

Answer: No.

Getting a bullshit strike on his youtube channel I can understand. He can fight it and it will be sorted out.

The discord story is more interesting to me. TTWO can't simply call up discord and tell them to delete some guys account. They need proof and discord would need to confirm that proof.

 

[Hybus]

That's kind of where it's interesting, TTWO leaned on them for discord, if they shut them down without proof, that isn't good press. I wasn't buying the game anyways, but I could use more information on the subject

 

[Sraika]

there was no beer option on this poll :(

the whole thing is a bit ridiculous lol
the youtuber was definitely outta line, but their response was rather heavy handed
like, there's a difference between leeks and blatantly exploiting flaws in 3rd party programs/websites, which is what appears to be the case here
so TT is definitely justified in some degree of response, tho perhaps PIs are a bit excessive. Unless, of course, they actually dont know how he got the images, which would be understandable
on the other hand, the discord thing could be completely unrelated, and even then that's more on discord itself than take two, since they're 2 completely different companies
boycotting BL3 over a decision made by discord seems kinda stupid, no matter the part they played in it

EDIT: after reading a bit more into it, it's entirely possible that the discord thing happened due to TT filing a takedown notice
since technically the images are copyrighted content, assuming he shared the images there as well, the takedown is arguably justified
i mean, he could probably win a counter claim with a decent lawyer, too, but TT wouldn't be in the wrong there, and discord has to err on the side of caution, since they don't want lawsuits

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I wasn't going to buy the game, I found borderlands2 to get real boring real fast, but after hearing about this I wouldn't be buying it even if a wanted to in the first place.
On the one hand, the ppl taking the screen shots and the guy putting them together did know exactly that this was never meant to happen, and were doing something that ttwo would frown upon.
On the other hand, ttwo getting goons to terrorize the guy is just absurd. How can this be legal in a nation that's supposedly civilized? If ttwo thinks the guy did something illegal by showing that stuff, they could call the police, or just send lawyers. That would have made much more sense. Do PIs (which to me translates as lazy jobless good for nothing) in the US have some sort of above the law status or something so they can just go around and mess with ppl? Cos that's fucked up.
And that's just one thing, how come they have the power to delete his discord? What the hell does his discord have to do with this in the first place?
Why the hell do I care about this, I'm not buying any games anytime soon anyways

 

[sum1]

there was no beer option on this poll :(

the whole thing is a bit ridiculous lol
the youtuber was definitely outta line, but their response was rather heavy handed
like, there's a difference between leeks and blatantly exploiting flaws in 3rd party programs/websites, which is what appears to be the case here
so TT is definitely justified in some degree of response, tho perhaps PIs are a bit excessive. Unless, of course, they actually dont know how he got the images, which would be understandable
on the other hand, the discord thing could be completely unrelated, and even then that's more on discord itself than take two, since they're 2 completely different companies
boycotting BL3 over a decision made by discord seems kinda stupid, no matter the part they played in it

EDIT: after reading a bit more into it, it's entirely possible that the discord thing happened due to TT filing a takedown notice
since technically the images are copyrighted content, assuming he shared the images there as well, the takedown is arguably justified
i mean, he could probably win a counter claim with a decent lawyer, too, but TT wouldn't be in the wrong there, and discord has to err on the side of caution, since they don't want lawsuits

It is crazy.
how was the youtuber out of line? he posted info that was being posted all over reddit and they 2k had put out, although unknowingly. they fallowed 2ks test twitch streams and were able to see info from the steams. you don't have a hole in your boat and blame the water for coming in. you patch the hole in your boat. 2k was WAY out of line in how they handled this (and from what I can find take-two has done this before) they send people to your house and question you? that is straight-up mafia shit. an email telling you to cut it out is more than enough.
The Discord timing is way to suspect to be ignored, yes it could be something else, but it has to be called into question.
Last, there are right ways and wrong ways to handle this. like I said there was a breach on TT and 2ks side, sure get dmc takedowns on anything you can, but bulling a Youtuber? and trying to blame him for your leak? that's bs. If there was anything else going on that youtuber was doing wrong they have every right to take him to court.
in short, you have a 14.65 BILLION dollar company sending thugs and making claims against a single guy on the internet to the point he has deleted all his social media and went dark without EVER proving he did anything illegal or wrong.

 

[Michael]

Currently it seems like all we have is the story from this supmatteo guy + some speculation. I think thats pretty thin and something about this story needs to be explored deeper before creating outrage.

Some companys are provingly abusing dmc takedowns to harass youtuber and i think YT should do something about their system to avoid that. But anyway YT seems to bully people they don't like too.

Also false DMCs are strictly targeted at the money flow of professional Youtubers, so if its true, clearly a dick move.

Edit:
Seems like there is more to it:
"The action we’ve taken is the result of a 10-month investigation and a history of this creator profiting from breaking our policies, leaking confidential information about our product, and infringing our copyrights."

“The information he’s sharing about the situation is incomplete, and in some cases untrue,” . “Not only were many of his actions illegal, but they were negatively impacting the experiences of other content creators and our fans in anticipation for the game.”

So probably a dick move on Take 2 side

What i would like to know:
Have they tried to reach out to him?
What is the mentioned "history of profiting from breaking our policies" ?

 

[sum1]

Seems like there is more to it:
"The action we’ve taken is the result of a 10-month investigation and a history of this creator profiting from breaking our policies, leaking confidential information about our product, and infringing our copyrights."

“The information he’s sharing about the situation is incomplete, and in some cases untrue,” . “Not only were many of his actions illegal, but they were negatively impacting the experiences of other content creators and our fans in anticipation for the game.”

Heres the thing, and why I am currently on the side of SupMatto.
Take-Two does NOT get to just tell us, ya this guy is guilty, they have to PROVE it, so far it's their word against his, and they are being the ones that are taking action against him without a fair trial, in public eye or not. If I had prof I would email him and be like, hey cut it out, here is what we have on you, take it all down or we will come at you (within the law) and most likely problem solved. If not, show the proof you have that he has done ANYTHING and let the legal system or public opinion be on your side. So innocent until proven guilty, and Take-Two is not doing ANYTHING to make me believe they really have a shred of evidence on him.

 

[Doggen]

fking youtubers trying to get them hits

 

[August]

It looks like he may have been selling access to his discord server which contained problematic content.

 

[sum1]

It looks like he may have been selling access to his discord server which contained problematic content.

yes that is a claim made, yet again, Take-Two has stated this, SupMatto has denied it, and take-two has attacked him, where is the proof? where is the fair trial? for we know SupMatto may have done it, but we need Proof, it's not on take-two to claim something like this and then just go after anyone like this. Take-Two needs to prove its claim before ANY action is taken (besides asking for a temporary removal of any videos they claim to contain any wrongdoing on the part of SupMatto)

 

[Michael]

Just to make sure i'm playing a little bit: the devils advocate here. :)

I totally agree on the fair trial. This goes for both sides. And yet all i hear a different claims of both party providing no real proof. (yet)

Generally speaking:
There is a difference if you're making money with something or you do it for fun. I assume he is making money with his channel and it sounds like he is/was making good money out of it.
Also he may be not the original leaker he took the info and monetized it (by putting it on his channel and having monetization turned on, or getting money from patroen etc).
I'm not a lawyer so i'm not sure if or if not a copyright infringement in this case happened. Lets assume it is: No matter where you got the material from, publishing potential copyright protected material is against the law of most countrys.

Sending two PI on to him is imho unnecessary and clearly a dick move.

 

[Montoya]

Sending two PI on to him is imho unnecessary and clearly a dick move.

It clearly was, but also he is an idiot because he is under no obligation to talk to anybody unless they knock on his door with warrant signed by a judge.

If two PI's knock on your door and say "We are private investigators, we want to talk about the twitch channels you posted about!", the correct answer from him should have been "Fuck off and get off my property!".

 

[Hybus]

It clearly was, but also he is an idiot because he is under no obligation to talk to anybody unless they knock on his door with warrant signed by a judge.

If two PI's knock on your door and say "We are private investigators, we want to talk about the twitch channels you posted about!", the correct answer from him should have been "Fuck off and get off my property!".

I 100% agree, definitely a case of get the hell off my property. However some kid who is used to having that certain level of protection a monitor offers him from the internet or "real world" was probably intimidated so bad he was pissing his pants. Which was exactly what they were hoping for.

These two PIs were probably told to go over there and lean on this basement rat until he tells you what he knows and gets the hell off the internet. In this day and age, I don't know how you keep that kind of action private. Someone over at TTWO got butt hurt over this and way overreacted. Stupid mistake.

All allegedly of course,

 

[sum1]

If two PI's knock on your door and say "We are private investigators, we want to talk about the twitch channels you posted about!", the correct answer from him should have been "Fuck off and get off my property!".

^This, 100% This^

There is a difference if you're making money with something or you do it for fun.

Yes, and there is where we need to find the truth, SubMatto and his followers are saying this was not a thing, Take-Two are saying it was. If it was a thing SubMatto is in the wrong, and Take-Two is only guilty of overreaction, and I can live with that, but if Take-Two does not have the proof that this happened they need to learn that this kind of action is downright unacceptable.

 

[Bambooza]

Yes, and there is where we need to find the truth, SubMatto and his followers are saying this was not a thing, Take-Two are saying it was. If it was a thing SubMatto is in the wrong, and Take-Two is only guilty of overreaction, and I can live with that, but if Take-Two does not have the proof that this happened they need to learn that this kind of action is downright unacceptable.

Indeed we do not have any information just lots of speculation and conclusions jumped to. In fact, a lot of the speculation and conclusions are fabricated by third parties and not even something said by either TakeTwo or SubMatto. Even if it wasn't leaked content some of the stuff SubMatto was hosting and charging for would be hard-pressed to fall under fair use and DMCA.

In honesty, we should be focusing this rage on the laws like the DMCA and long copyright ownership of published works and lobby to have them changed. While TakeTwo's behavior might not have been the friendliest to the community and in particular SubMatto I have yet to see anything they have done that was outside normal publisher actions. And compared to EA and Disney it was mellow.