What do you think about this Borderland 3/Take-Two vs SupMatto thing?

[Sraika]

It is crazy.
how was the youtuber out of line? he posted info that was being posted all over reddit and they 2k had put out, although unknowingly. they fallowed 2ks test twitch streams and were able to see info from the steams. you don't have a hole in your boat and blame the water for coming in. you patch the hole in your boat. 2k was WAY out of line in how they handled this (and from what I can find take-two has done this before) they send people to your house and question you? that is straight-up mafia shit. an email telling you to cut it out is more than enough.
The Discord timing is way to suspect to be ignored, yes it could be something else, but it has to be called into question.
Last, there are right ways and wrong ways to handle this. like I said there was a breach on TT and 2ks side, sure get dmc takedowns on anything you can, but bulling a Youtuber? and trying to blame him for your leak? that's bs. If there was anything else going on that youtuber was doing wrong they have every right to take him to court.
in short, you have a 14.65 BILLION dollar company sending thugs and making claims against a single guy on the internet to the point he has deleted all his social media and went dark without EVER proving he did anything illegal or wrong.

here's the thing, tho, it's not their boat, as it were
as far as take two knew, he somehow had access to secure information by exploiting a flaw in one of their communication channels
if this was anything other than a video game, that would be serious shit
for the PIs, yeah that's excessive, but it's not actually all that intimidating either
like, he doesn't have to talk with them at all, and presumably in his opinion he hasnt actually done anything wrong, so he can just tell them that, explain the situation, and tell them to go away

i've already said my opinion on the discord thing

I agree that take two could definitely have handled this significantly better, but it's not entirely the wrong way to handle it, either

 

[DontTouchMyHoHos]

TTWO messed up in the way they handled this, no doubt there.

Its a good thing that prominent members of the gaming community are making a stink about it. Negative press like this is important so that TTWO understands that this kind of shit does not go unnoticed.

The question is, does your boycott affect their bottom line?

Answer: No.

Getting a bullshit strike on his youtube channel I can understand. He can fight it and it will be sorted out.

The discord story is more interesting to me. TTWO can't simply call up discord and tell them to delete some guys account. They need proof and discord would need to confirm that proof.

I mean boycotting does affect their bottom line. EA and Activision are good points of this. The fallout from Battlefront 2 and the continuation of this is pretty massive on their stocks.

 

[sum1]

So Update, 2k now has issued 63 strikes against SubMatto's youtube! including videos from AT LEAST A YEAR ago talking about Borderlands 2.... WTF?!?! this seems, to me, if nothing else a very bad abuse of YouTubes systems. what do we not know now about Borderlands 2 could have been in a year old video? hard to get exact dates of videos taken down but some may be YEARS old.

 

[Hybus]

OK, this is getting stupid, I think they are just pouring more gas on the fire and bringing a lot more attention to this.

On the other hand, developers and publishers have learned they can pretty much get away with murder, it's why we have loot boxes, micro transactions and pay to win mechanics everywhere. They can behave how they want and there is little to no repercussion for it.

 

[sum1]

OK, this is getting stupid, I think they are just pouring more gas on the fire and bringing a lot more attention to this.

On the other hand, developers and publishers have learned they can pretty much get away with murder, it's why we have loot boxes, micro transactions and pay to win mechanics everywhere. They can behave how they want and there is little to no repercussion for it.

I have heard reports now (unverified) that 2k/gearbox are blocking twitter accounts that ask for more information about all this shit.... This is getting Orwellian... Fast.... they are going full Denethor...

 

[Deroth]

It clearly was, but also he is an idiot because he is under no obligation to talk to anybody unless they knock on his door with warrant signed by a judge.

If two PI's knock on your door and say "We are private investigators, we want to talk about the twitch channels you posted about!", the correct answer from him should have been "Fuck off and get off my property!".

...or this:

View: https://youtu.be/FCgy0dphOGc

 

[Thalstan]

I 100% agree, definitely a case of get the hell off my property. However some kid who is used to having that certain level of protection a monitor offers him from the internet or "real world" was probably intimidated so bad he was pissing his pants. Which was exactly what they were hoping for.

These two PIs were probably told to go over there and lean on this basement rat until he tells you what he knows and gets the hell off the internet. In this day and age, I don't know how you keep that kind of action private. Someone over at TTWO got butt hurt over this and way overreacted. Stupid mistake.

All allegedly of course,

Get the heck off my property. Record any and all conversation so that any threats made can be given to the cops.

That said, content creators/influencers/streamers/whatever should probably have a lawyer. In fact, they should probably have an LLC or other corporate entity that can shield personal assets like your house from lawsuits. They also need to understand what they can and can’t do without breaching the corporate shield.

I suspect the person in question was told “talk to us or they will initiate a lawsuit where we will go after you, your car, your home, your savings, etc.” which is why they talked for 40 minutes.

If you are putting out content and are monetizing that content, it is no longer a hobby or something you do in your spare time. It’s now a small business. Take the time and effort to protect yourself and your personal property. Note, some of these might come with extra expenses. You might need to have a corporate computer and a separate personal one. If you stream SC, does that mean your ships are personal or corporate property? Does using a personal account on a corporate stream breach the corporate shield? Honestly, I have no idea. That’s what a business lawyer can tell you.

If you can’t generate the profits to run it as a small business, maybe you should rethink if you really want to monetize it at all.

@DirectorGunner , if I recall, you have some experience with content creation, youtube, and actually making money off the stuff you create. Can you share your experiences? I seem to remember a post you make about getting an entertainment lawyer. Also @ThomSirveaux and @SneakyPete , you also seem to have some knowledge about licenses. Could you add anything?

 

[DontTouchMyHoHos]

Seem the rules have changed a little bit.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA2Io3Q-Sg0

 

[sum1]

So my current understanding is that Take-Two has released "proof"* of SupMatto's leak selling, however, they have only shown this to news outlets under NDA to not publish it as too not cause any issues in any investigations or anything like that. That being said, as long as the "proof"* is legit and shows SubMatto profiting from these leaks I am ok, not happy, but accepting in the way Take-Two has handled this. I am sure they could have handled it better, however, I not going to hold imperfect actions against them. Now if the "proof"* is lackluster then it will swing back in the favor of SubMatto. At this point, I do not see any action we can take on one side or the other until more details arise.

*Note: The use of "Proof" here is to let you know I do not know the legitimacy of the findings against SubMatto and do not want to assumes it's legitimacy without more information.

 

[Bruttle]

Let me preface this by stating that I am a bit of a cynic. In the absence of verifiable proof, motives become extremely suspect. I hate to say it, but people rarely prove these sentiments to be wrong. This is particularly true with anything media or publicity related. The situation here involves both. So I am immediately suspicious of everyone's motives. Two very important questions would be:

Did Take Two have proof of a violation that was against Discord or YouTube's Terms of Service?
Did SupMatto post material that directly violated a NDA that named him specifically?

Until you have actual facts (and not just words from either TT or SupMatto), you can't say who's right or who's wrong. As far as I know, the only verifiable part is that there is a youtuber and a developer involved in a fight with no evidence shown to the public. As such, until one or the other provides proof, I will write it off as publicity drama.

Also, like Montoya was talking about earlier, the response to the Private Investigators was all wrong. They're PI's, not cops. You don't need to answer the door. You don't need to talk to them. You don't even need to be nice to them. In fact, if you want to, you can call the actual cops and have them arrested for trespassing... Either way, I find it laughable that they're being described as "goons" and that they were "bullying".

 

[sum1]

Let me preface this by stating that I am a bit of a cynic. In the absence of verifiable proof, motives become extremely suspect. I hate to say it, but people rarely prove these sentiments to be wrong. This is particularly true with anything media or publicity related. The situation here involves both. So I am immediately suspicious of everyone's motives. Two very important questions would be:

Did Take Two have proof of a violation that was against Discord or YouTube's Terms of Service?
Did SupMatto post material that directly violated a NDA that named him specifically?

Until you have actual facts (and not just words from either TT or SupMatto), you can't say who's right or who's wrong. As far as I know, the only verifiable part is that there is a youtuber and a developer involved in a fight with no evidence shown to the public. As such, until one or the other provides proof, I will write it off as publicity drama.

Also, like Montoya was talking about earlier, the response to the Private Investigators was all wrong. They're PI's, not cops. You don't need to answer the door. You don't need to talk to them. You don't even need to be nice to them. In fact, if you want to, you can call the actual cops and have them arrested for trespassing... Either way, I find it laughable that they're being described as "goons" and that they were "bullying".

So I have been watching this very closely. to answer your question. we still don't know everything, but here is what we know. TT (Take-Two) claims to have sent proof that SM (SubMatto) granted access to his discord if you got his $5 youtube subscription and on this discord he posted leaks. the logic being that you could only get the leaks for $5, meaning SM was profiting off TT. TT gave their proof of these claims to news sources under NDA as they don't want to overly compromise their case. The News sources are siding with TT claiming the proof is more than enough. So it all comes down to does TT have the proof they claim about SM making money off them by leaking secrets?

 

[Bruttle]

So it all comes down to does TT have the proof they claim about SM making money off them by leaking secrets?

That's pretty much the point precisely. There is so much conjecture getting thrown around. I just want to see facts. That said, this seems to be an awful lot of money and resources to throw at a perfectly innocent youtube guy.

 

[Hybus]

Agreed, it's all speculation without evidence. Also, "we were given proof under NDA, so we publicly side with the Corp who funds our business of gaming news and provides us with insider access" Yes, I am completely onboard with that.

If it is actual proof, let us see it. At that point all of the bad press goes away.