What I learned in KC aka Kansas City

ColdDog

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After completing the Farcry 5 adventure - because I have to mention a game before I start my rant. :slight_smile:

Just another night on road... I stopped in to a high-end steak house in South KC. I could not help but listen to a conversation a older group (AARP types) was having a loud discussion as I ordered my steak, mashed potatos and beer. The interesting conversation started about education. They discussed children being exposed to transgender doctrine, lack of standards for higher education, and other general issues. They reminded me of my grandparents and the issues they were interested in - God, family, education, hard work, honesty, and patriotism.

At that point I realized something I always knew but never really acknowledged. America pushing too hard trying to force people to change against their will. I have always been a live and let live person, just don't push yourself on me type person. So what has changed? In the past 20 years, it has been balls to the wall pushing the counter culture (by our grandparents definition) to mainstream and now is appears, that the actual counter culture is the culture of traditional values.

I was not shocked by their discussion but I looked around at the waiters and waitresses (young college student types) and I thought what are thinking about this conversation? I guess what really bothered me was that these young folks would be somehow offended. Have I really become more sensitive to that? My grandparents would tell me "those young folks should deal with it"... today's society frowns on the type of discussion these people were having. Did the older folks have a right to discuss their thoughts in the open? Why do I care about the thoughts of the old folks and the feelings of the younger ones?

That is the shift to thought today. In the old days if you did not like my thoughts, that was your problem. Today, its now about what some one says... its about how someone feels. Subjectivity, rules the day. Society is pushing people hard to adjust to the new norms (faster than a generation can pass away) or be labeled a social deviant. In the last 20 years, society has changed so much that people can't keep up. Especially rural America. In my opinion, that is why we live to two different countries in America and why America so divided. Cities are places where people subjected to progressive thought such as marketing and education. When we look at the election map... cities are blue (democrats) and rural America is red (republican). When you work on farm you interact with the same people for generations... when you work in the city you interact with different people everyday. Maybe if we just chilled as a society and stopped fighting so much we'd find more in common than different.

That said, there is a difference between right and wrong and in retrospect it seems the city folk are more intolerant of the rural folks... laying down a false narrative - they are stupid rednecks, black folk, and hispanics. The general stereotype is that if you live in the city you are more sophisticated, educated, tolerant, open to new ideas. In the city, by the definition, people are exposed to homeless people, drug addicts, art, culture, alternative lifestyles, punk rockers, gang members, etc. Rural people on the other hand are not. Rural communities have their bad apples in the community, but everyone knows who they are. Even though they may be hated, they are still part of the community and have been a part of that community a long time - which make them tolerant in their own way.

So the lesson I learned tonight is that there are two different countries in the United States. We have urban vs rural philosophies at odds and that society is changing faster than people can. This is troubling... I am concerned that the combination of technology and the flow of information from all parts of the world is pushing people too hard. My opinion is that that is what happened with slavery and eventually led to the civil war - I'm not saying that the civil war was unjustified by the North... just saying that people have their breaking point. The problem, is that there are so many opinions and ideas emerging so fast that society does not have time to adjust and therefore tears. Remember the enormous amount of change that has happened to the world in the past 20 years. The civil war festered since the beginning - before the United States was a country - 100 years or more. Technology and science are going to leap forward faster than we have ever seen in the next 10 years (Moore's Law). We need to manage this and be civil, patient, and mature. Progressive people need to slow down and let the more traditional people catch up.

Happy Tuesday!
CD
 
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Sirus7264

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American society has become a mess because everyone wants a voice these days and the internet is making it worse people think they can just say whatever they want because no one will know who they are. Also news has just become clickbait of oppinions if you dont agree with it you click it if you agree with it you click it. They either try to offend a group of people or they try to arouse an audience. Working together is a thing of the past... now whats more important to people is getting rich quick or being right.
 

StdDev

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the internet is making it worse people think they can just say whatever they want because no one will know who they are.
Actually, they can... even "hate" speech is constitutionally protected. You have to hold yourself to a higher standard because no one is going to do it for you.
Internet.png
 

Radegast74

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After completing the Farcry 5 adventure - because I have to mention a game before I start my rant. :slight_smile:

Just another night on road... I stopped in to a high-end steak house in South KC. I could not help but listen to a conversation a older group (AARP types) was having a loud discussion as I ordered my steak, mashed potatos and beer. The interesting conversation started about education. They discussed children being exposed to transgender doctrine, lack of standards for higher education, and other general issues. They reminded me of my grandparents and the issues they were interested in - God, family, education, hard work, honesty, and patriotism.

At that point I realized something I always knew but never really acknowledged. America pushing too hard trying to force people to change against their will. I have always been a live and let live person, just don't push yourself on me type person. So what has changed? In the past 20 years, it has been balls to the wall pushing the counter culture (by our grandparents definition) to mainstream and now is appears, that the actual counter culture is the culture of traditional values.

I was not shocked by their discussion but I looked around at the waiters and waitresses (young college student types) and I thought what are thinking about this conversation? I guess what really bothered me was that these young folks would be somehow offended. Have I really become more sensitive to that? My grandparents would tell me "those young folks should deal with it"... today's society frowns on the type of discussion these people were having. Did the older folks have a right to discuss their thoughts in the open? Why do I care about the thoughts of the old folks and the feelings of the younger ones?

That is the shift to thought today. In the old days if you did not like my thoughts, that was your problem. Today, its now about what some one says... its about how someone feels. Subjectivity, rules the day. Society is pushing people hard to adjust to the new norms (faster than a generation can pass away) or be labeled a social deviant. In the last 20 years, society has changed so much that people can't keep up. Especially rural America. In my opinion, that is why we live to two different countries in America and why America so divided. Cities are places where people subjected to progressive thought such as marketing and education. When we look at the election map... cities are blue (democrats) and rural America is red (republican). When you work on farm you interact with the same people for generations... when you work in the city you interact with different people everyday. Maybe if we just chilled as a society and stopped fighting so much we'd find more in common than different.

That said, there is a difference between right and wrong and in retrospect it seems the city folk are more intolerant of the rural folks... laying down a false narrative - they are stupid rednecks, black folk, and hispanics. The general stereotype is that if you live in the city you are more sophisticated, educated, tolerant, open to new ideas. In the city, by the definition, people are exposed to homeless people, drug addicts, art, culture, alternative lifestyles, punk rockers, gang members, etc. Rural people on the other hand are not. Rural communities have their bad apples in the community, but everyone knows who they are. Even though they may be hated, they are still part of the community and have been a part of that community a long time - which make them tolerant in their own way.

So the lesson I learned tonight is that there are two different countries in the United States. We have urban vs rural philosophies at odds and that society is changing faster than people can. This is troubling... I am concerned that the combination of technology and the flow of information from all parts of the world is pushing people too hard. My opinion is that that is what happened with slavery and eventually led to the civil war - I'm not saying that the civil war was unjustified by the North... just saying that people have their breaking point. The problem, is that there are so many opinions and ideas emerging so fast that society does not have time to adjust and therefore tears. Remember the enormous amount of change that has happened to the world in the past 20 years. The civil war festered since the beginning - before the United States was a country - 100 years or more. Technology and science are going to leap forward faster than we have ever seen in the next 10 years (Moore's Law). We need to manage this and be civil, patient, and mature. Progressive people need to slow down and let the more traditional people catch up.

Happy Tuesday!
CD
Interesting!

Here's a clip from an earlier era, in a different time, with a different struggle, but the overall idea is the same.

And if you want the TL;DR, just fast forward the video to 3:15 and start watching:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCrx_u3825g
 

SullyQuindarius

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I feel like a lot of America tends to be kind of hypocritical. I see a lot of people claiming to be tolerant, but then as soon as someone disagrees with their views they start throwing insults at them, calling them racist/homophobic/etc etc. I agree with what you said, why can't we all just chill? If someone doesn't agree with what I think, then whatever... that's their thoughts and opinions. Not my business.
 
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Bruce

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I feel like a lot of progressive America tends to be kind of hypocritical.
some (quite a few) people tend to be hypocritical - irrespectively of what they do believe in ... latest example is

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/the-bizarre-online-presence-of-the-youtube-shooter/ar-AAvsPhb?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

saying that "progressive" or "traditional" or "green skinned" people are more or less hypocritical than some other group sounds quite hypocritical also :)
 

SullyQuindarius

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Bambooza

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After completing the Farcry 5 adventure - because I have to mention a game before I start my rant. :slight_smile:

Just another night on road... I stopped in to a high-end steak house in South KC. I could not help but listen to a conversation a older group (AARP types) was having a loud discussion as I ordered my steak, mashed potatos and beer. The interesting conversation started about education. They discussed children being exposed to transgender doctrine, lack of standards for higher education, and other general issues. They reminded me of my grandparents and the issues they were interested in - God, family, education, hard work, honesty, and patriotism.

At that point I realized something I always knew but never really acknowledged. America pushing too hard trying to force people to change against their will. I have always been a live and let live person, just don't push yourself on me type person. So what has changed? In the past 20 years, it has been balls to the wall pushing the counter culture (by our grandparents definition) to mainstream and now is appears, that the actual counter culture is the culture of traditional values.

I was not shocked by their discussion but I looked around at the waiters and waitresses (young college student types) and I thought what are thinking about this conversation? I guess what really bothered me was that these young folks would be somehow offended. Have I really become more sensitive to that? My grandparents would tell me "those young folks should deal with it"... today's society frowns on the type of discussion these people were having. Did the older folks have a right to discuss their thoughts in the open? Why do I care about the thoughts of the old folks and the feelings of the younger ones?

That is the shift to thought today. In the old days if you did not like my thoughts, that was your problem. Today, its now about what some one says... its about how someone feels. Subjectivity, rules the day. Society is pushing people hard to adjust to the new norms (faster than a generation can pass away) or be labeled a social deviant. In the last 20 years, society has changed so much that people can't keep up. Especially rural America. In my opinion, that is why we live to two different countries in America and why America so divided. Cities are places where people subjected to progressive thought such as marketing and education. When we look at the election map... cities are blue (democrats) and rural America is red (republican). When you work on farm you interact with the same people for generations... when you work in the city you interact with different people everyday. Maybe if we just chilled as a society and stopped fighting so much we'd find more in common than different.

That said, there is a difference between right and wrong and in retrospect it seems the city folk are more intolerant of the rural folks... laying down a false narrative - they are stupid rednecks, black folk, and hispanics. The general stereotype is that if you live in the city you are more sophisticated, educated, tolerant, open to new ideas. In the city, by the definition, people are exposed to homeless people, drug addicts, art, culture, alternative lifestyles, punk rockers, gang members, etc. Rural people on the other hand are not. Rural communities have their bad apples in the community, but everyone knows who they are. Even though they may be hated, they are still part of the community and have been a part of that community a long time - which make them tolerant in their own way.

So the lesson I learned tonight is that there are two different countries in the United States. We have urban vs rural philosophies at odds and that society is changing faster than people can. This is troubling... I am concerned that the combination of technology and the flow of information from all parts of the world is pushing people too hard. My opinion is that that is what happened with slavery and eventually led to the civil war - I'm not saying that the civil war was unjustified by the North... just saying that people have their breaking point. The problem, is that there are so many opinions and ideas emerging so fast that society does not have time to adjust and therefore tears. Remember the enormous amount of change that has happened to the world in the past 20 years. The civil war festered since the beginning - before the United States was a country - 100 years or more. Technology and science are going to leap forward faster than we have ever seen in the next 10 years (Moore's Law). We need to manage this and be civil, patient, and mature. Progressive people need to slow down and let the more traditional people catch up.

Happy Tuesday!
CD
I've also pondered this if its really as bad as we sometimes think it is. And truth be told I honestly think the Media driven by their financial need for views and social media exasperate the situation drastically. But at the end of the day this country is moving at its own pace as it has for what I can tell generations. And in general that direction is toward a better future for everyone. There are sputters and spurts along with a number of miss steps, driven by a younger generation who has the energy and desire to change all things and an older generation who's memory of what has been tried is not always as clear as they think it is. Communities of people no matter where they are always seem to have their talking points be it weather, sports, politics or gossip. And I wonder if we step back from the current flash point issue and look at the communities if they are any different then they have always been.
 
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ColdDog

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Here's a clip from an earlier era, in a different time, with a different struggle, but the overall idea is the same.
That was moving... thank you for sharing.

saying that "progressive" or "traditional" or "green skinned" people are more or less hypocritical than some other group sounds quite hypocritical also :slight_smile:
Very true!

But at the end of the day this country is moving at its own pace as it has for what I can tell generations. And in general that direction is toward a better future for everyone.
I agree, but at this rate change is going to happen so fast there will be a revolution every 20 years, people can only take so much division until it erupts into something ugly (like the kid ignoring a bully for months and finally explodes because he feels he has no other choice). The only people that benefit from this chaos, in my opinion, is those who can afford to stay away from it... ever fulminating hatred and division and throwing "metaphorical bones" to have the population sway one way or the other. Just to be clear, I do not think it is just an American problem. I think this is a problem with the developed world that has become bored, not needing to hunt for food and fetch water everyday, where the real necessities of life matter. I look at this issue a little different, I think people forget what matters and are trying to instinctively create something that does not need to be created and that is division, because people want to feel relevant. The old adage - "misery loves company".
 

Bambooza

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It really is hard to tell if the rate of change is happening that fast or if the deluge of information no longer funneled through local media outlets makes it seems so. Take for instance the most recent "March For Our Lives" on Washington, and while it generated lots of publicity and turnouts were estimated between 1.2 and 2 million people nothing has changed and for the most part everyone's attention has returned back to their normal routine. Be it what are the Kardashian up to, who's sleeping with who, what is the new look for this years spring and even the MLB draws far more attention.

Even the Media from the perspective of Google/news shows most of the media outlets are once again focused on what is Trump doing this week, how is the Hurricane season shaping up and a new snow storm is expected over much of the country.
 

Radegast74

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I'm reading a bio of Ben Franklin right now. Great book, it's by Carl Van Doren from 1938 (? I think?).

I'm struck by just how hard it was back then for anybody to agree on anything. I don't think we are any different today, but that increased communication (like social media) allows us to highlight differences. My take-away from the book and current events is that if you got a bunch of us in a room and talked, we would likely agree on 80-90% of stuff. Right now, social media and other stuff has us all dialed in with a LASER focus on the 10% or so of stuff we disagree on, and then some people start using a single issue as a litmus test of sorts for whatever...

Whoever said you should walk a mile in a persons shoes before you attempt to understand or judge them knew what they were talking about. Again, reading that Ben Franklin book, I'm impressed by how much back then was accomplished by negotiation and compromise. Stuff like that is tough, nowadays, when we want our news and our government to be more like entertainment, like a reality-show.
 

StdDev

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I'm struck by just how hard it was back then for anybody to agree on anything. I don't think we are any different today, but that increased communication (like social media) allows us to highlight differences.
I don't think it's the same at all.. there are way too many people who seem to only troll, particularly on FB.
My cousin wrote something that I think is very pertinent,
"Raise your hand if you were ever convinced of the truth of someone's opinion because you were called names, insulted, and called evil, insane, or stupid? Anyone?
How about seeing a meme on Facebook? Anyone here, after seeing a 'witty' meme, decide to radically alter your point of view?"

So.. what exactly is going on? are some people, when anonymous, just expressing some genetic "asshole" chromosome that we all have?
I would hope that most people realize that you do not advance your argument by calling people names and deriding them, yet.. FB is MUCH of this. The situation is further complicated by "news" outlets that appear to put ideology ahead of truth. Do you think people would behave this way if they were face to face with people who support the other side of an argument?
 

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I don't think it's the same at all.. there are way too many people who seem to only troll, particularly on FB.
My cousin wrote something that I think is very pertinent,
"Raise your hand if you were ever convinced of the truth of someone's opinion because you were called names, insulted, and called evil, insane, or stupid? Anyone?
How about seeing a meme on Facebook? Anyone here, after seeing a 'witty' meme, decide to radically alter your point of view?"

So.. what exactly is going on? are some people, when anonymous, just expressing some genetic "asshole" chromosome that we all have?
I would hope that most people realize that you do not advance your argument by calling people names and deriding them, yet.. FB is MUCH of this. The situation is further complicated by "news" outlets that appear to put ideology ahead of truth. Do you think people would behave this way if they were face to face with people who support the other side of an argument?

These are great questions. Makes you wonder if FB allows people to truly be who they are or what they want to be.
 
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StdDev

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well... no one is convinced against their will... this kind of delves into "honesty" ... but in principle I agree with the message.. so it didn't alter my opinion.
 

ColdDog

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Do you think people would behave this way if they were face to face with people who support the other side of an argument?
Absolutely not - If someone acted that way at work, they'd be fired. If they acted that way in public, they would be shamed - or punched in the face.

The point here is that, as a society we are pushing too hard in too many directions - forcing ideology down the throats of people. Just two decades ago, the idea of transgender was taboo... today, we teach it in our schools and tell children they can be what ever gender they want. There are cases where this may be acceptable, but kids being pressured for yet another decision can cause identity problems - not for the true transgender but for the kids who do not understand, telling kids its ok to have a identity crisis at the age of 8. Why can't Jimmy be himself... if he wants to be Jane, then let him be Jane - he'll be labeled as different but why force everyone to say "this is normal" or "abnormal" when they do not think so. Again, we just force these new thoughts down everyone's throats... they take it until they decide they don't have to and then bigger problems arise. Just quietly let Jimmy be Jane and be done with it. Just don't make a big deal of it on stress the other kids out. Any "animal" would go nuts in this situation, including humans.
 
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StdDev

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why force everyone to say "this is normal" or "abnormal" when they do not think so. Again, we just force these new thoughts down everyone's throats...
Are these "thoughts" really new? or could it be only a new example of an old "thought"? I agree that a lot of crap that goes on today is bizar and was probably considered unthinkable when I was a school kid, but, I was raised to believe that as long as people are not hurting me it is really not my place to comment or make judgements on what they believe. So in my mind it's not a question of "normal or abnormal" but more an issue of "acceptable (not hurting me or anyone else) or unacceptable" The way that you or I feel about a particular thing is completely a private affair, and if it is important enough for you to say something about it, it is your right to do so. However it is not OK to claim that your feelings are the word of god passed on from Valhalla or that your beliefs are the only truth when they are in fact only your beliefs. The elegant and classy way to deal with these kind of issues is, as you say, "Just quietly let Jimmy be Jane and be done with it."
 
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