Let's talk about the 300-series' pending rework.

Thalstan

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Buy More Warranty

Honestly, BMW quality is poor, the prices for repairs are just huge in the states, and they have some major engineering "oopsies" on their cars. For instance, on the 2006 3 series, if the fuse that powers the door locks for the passenger side blows - which it does as there is an issue with them drawing more current than they designed the circuit for - you can't open the passenger or either rear doors from the inside as they require power to unlock when you pull the handle. Imagine if you were in a wreck and your main battery lead shorted out, leaving you with no power...I have other horror stories about their multiple attempts to fix an injector problem on my n63 engine and it took them 4 times to get it done, plus a recall that was not officially a recall...

If you say the 300 series is a BMW of spaceships, let me know where I can unload it before the factory warranty is up...
 
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Varku

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What would you define as BMW quality?
Hmm, BMW-Quality means to me:
Well engenered, and designed solutions,
expensive materials.
The sound when you a close a door.
Powerfull Avionics, which have some exceptional gimicks, like "can autoland everywhere", or "can fly through an asterioid belt on autopilot without crashing"
...
BMW isn't just a name, it's a sound, a feel, a design a statement that innovation is the path to the Future.
 

Thalstan

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Hmm, BMW-Quality means to me:
Well engenered, and designed solutions,
expensive materials.
The sound when you a close a door.
Powerfull Avionics, which have some exceptional gimicks, like "can autoland everywhere", or "can fly through an asterioid belt on autopilot without crashing"
...
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Having owned 3, I can tell you this.

They are NOT well engineered or tested. Like many manufacturers these days, they are in a rush to implement solutions and they they will fix the issues as they arise....usually at the customer's expense. My above example of the door handles is just one example of many I have of bad design.

They only have expensive materials if you are paying for them. Go drive a base 320. The seats are horrible, the leatherette is plasticy, and the insides are not even as good as the base Ford Mustag or Chevy Camaro.

Powerful Drivetrains. Yes and no. Honestly, a lot of companies get the same horsepower from the same displacement. I actually get BETTER milage driving my V8 than I did driving the 4 cylinder because the thing has no power until you get on the turbos...either that or the oil I am burning gives me extra milage...

They DO have a distinctive door closing sound, I will give you that. They also have a good chassis, and they work hard to balance the car front to back.

That said, if you are out of warranty, expect a $1,500 bill every 3 months at the shop.

My wife loves hers, which is why I bought mine. I will tell you this, I won't buy another for me...
 
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Varku

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HAHAHAHAHAHA

Having owned 3, I can tell you this.

They are NOT well engineered or tested. Like many manufacturers these days, they are in a rush to implement solutions and they they will fix the issues as they arise....usually at the customer's expense. My above example of the door handles is just one example of many I have of bad design.

They only have expensive materials if you are paying for them. Go drive a base 320. The seats are horrible, the leatherette is plasticy, and the insides are not even as good as the base Ford Mustag or Chevy Camaro.

Powerful Drivetrains. Yes and no. Honestly, a lot of companies get the same horsepower from the same displacement. I actually get BETTER milage driving my V8 than I did driving the 4 cylinder because the thing has no power until you get on the turbos...either that or the oil I am burning gives me extra milage...

They DO have a distinctive door closing sound, I will give you that. They also have a good chassis, and they work hard to balance the car front to back.

That said, if you are out of warranty, expect a $1,500 bill every 3 months at the shop.

My wife loves hers, which is why I bought mine. I will tell you this, I won't buy another for me...
Well, to be fair, i have never called a BMW my own, and propaly never will, as i can't justify to spend the money for a BMW, when i can get same for less. (I can drive my car without gimicks)
 
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Thalstan

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My next car (once this one gets to be 9 or 10 years old and is too expensive to keep repairing) will probably be a Ford, a Chevy, or if they come out with a rear drive platform...MAYBE a Buick. Honestly, if it had been available, I would have purchased the Chevy SS over the car I currently own. I drove the Taurus SHO, but it was still too FWD biased at the time and had some torque steer that I hated. We will see what the future holds...
 
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Varku

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Currently i'm in love with my Fiat 500 (kind of my first car)
It's cute small and red. There are many cars out there, but this one belongs to me.
 
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zeddie

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My next car (once this one gets to be 9 or 10 years old and is too expensive to keep repairing) will probably be a Ford, a Chevy, or if they come out with a rear drive platform...MAYBE a Buick. Honestly, if it had been available, I would have purchased the Chevy SS over the car I currently own. I drove the Taurus SHO, but it was still too FWD biased at the time and had some torque steer that I hated. We will see what the future holds...
I have personally heard a lot more horror stories from American cars than German cars. Have you driven Mercedes or Audi though I wonder? How do they compare to BMW?

From MY personal experience, owning mostly Japanese: Nissan is to avoid, Mazda rusts too fast, Ford is just "clunky", Saab is just like a Volvo, they last a LONG time and built like a tank (we had a really old 9000), Suzuki is cheap but you get what you paid for, and Acura is just great even 15 years in its life. There are a few things that broke throughout the years, and we changed the muffler twice, but that's because my dad's cheap and refuses to get them fixed by proper mechanics... despite all this, it still runs great!

From what I've heard of people owning BMWs and articles/shows talking about them, the part that really counts in a car, the engine, is really well engineered. They do make some horrible decisions in the livability and usability of the cars, like their horrid infotainment system (iDrive) or like you mentioned, some
 
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Thugari

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Currently i'm in love with my Fiat 500 (kind of my first car)
It's cute small and red. There are many cars out there, but this one belongs to me.
I got a blue one for my mother in law, figured it would be perfect for her, but after driving it, I have decided that I am getting my wife one also, they are really nice and talk about head room. all the way down to the little blind spot mirror. Fiat is cool
 
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Accented

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I have personally heard a lot more horror stories from American cars than German cars. Have you driven Mercedes or Audi though I wonder? How do they compare to BMW?

From MY personal experience, owning mostly Japanese: Nissan is to avoid, Mazda rusts too fast, Ford is just "clunky", Saab is just like a Volvo, they last a LONG time and built like a tank (we had a really old 9000), Suzuki is cheap but you get what you paid for, and Acura is just great even 15 years in its life. There are a few things that broke throughout the years, and we changed the muffler twice, but that's because my dad's cheap and refuses to get them fixed by proper mechanics... despite all this, it still runs great!

From what I've heard of people owning BMWs and articles/shows talking about them, the part that really counts in a car, the engine, is really well engineered. They do make some horrible decisions in the livability and usability of the cars, like their horrid infotainment system (iDrive) or like you mentioned, some
From what I've heard regarding Mercedes/Audi, both are quite fine in terms of luxury, with Mercedes focusing more on on-road luxury with superior cruise control and suspension plus comfier interior, and Audi is a bit more sports focused, with most of their SUV's being four wheel drive plus other kinda-practical features.

Maybe the 300i is a Mercedes, the 315p is an Audi, and the 325a is a Porsche? Fits in with the whole German engineering theme of Origin.
 
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Thalstan

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I have personally heard a lot more horror stories from American cars than German cars. Have you driven Mercedes or Audi though I wonder? How do they compare to BMW?

From MY personal experience, owning mostly Japanese: Nissan is to avoid, Mazda rusts too fast, Ford is just "clunky", Saab is just like a Volvo, they last a LONG time and built like a tank (we had a really old 9000), Suzuki is cheap but you get what you paid for, and Acura is just great even 15 years in its life. There are a few things that broke throughout the years, and we changed the muffler twice, but that's because my dad's cheap and refuses to get them fixed by proper mechanics... despite all this, it still runs great!

From what I've heard of people owning BMWs and articles/shows talking about them, the part that really counts in a car, the engine, is really well engineered. They do make some horrible decisions in the livability and usability of the cars, like their horrid infotainment system (iDrive) or like you mentioned, some
ALL cars and car manufacturers have their weak points.

Some American cars and manufacturers have really bad press stuck with them since the late 70s and 80s. Those cars were horrible because they didn't have to be good. In fact, the Old 350 diesel engine (gas to diesel conversion) was so bad, it pretty much killed diesel cars in the US for close to two decades. It's only been recent that the smaller American cars have been anything more than very cheap cars because only people on limited budgets tended to buy them...and thus quality suffered on them. That trend has started to change, but I think for the smaller cars, like the Fiat 500, you would be better off with something else.

Toyotas were nice, but then they became soulless boxes designed to move people from point a to point b. Lexus has (had) some nice cars, and both Toyota and Lexus had good quality (which makes sense considering they are the same thing outside North America.) Honda was about good reliable transportation, not much else except for the halo cars like the NSX. They did have a good sporty car (S2000), but it's gone. Mazda I have no experience with outside the RWD/AWD MPV back in the mid/late 80s. Decent cars, had radio issues, lack of power for pulling anything, but did the job.

Italian cars (Fiat, Maserati, etc) are known to look good, spend a lot of time in the shop, and cost you a ton for even minor repairs. They are thought of as the equivalent of a trophy wife or husband. Something nice to look at, show off at parties, but otherwise only capable of costing/spending your money. Impractical and unreliable over the long term. English cars have a rep of looking decent, leaking oil on your driveway, and breaking down 3 miles into your 5 mile trip.

The engine in a BMW is hit or miss. Some have had good luck, and their 6 cylinder is sublime. Their 8 is ok, but the N63 (not the N63tu), had MAJOR issues. It's the first car I've owned since my 72 Thunderbird that burned oil...and I mean a LOT of oil...and they say it's "normal". The direct injectors had significant issues and failures. I had 4 injector failures in 1.5 years...HALF of my injectors failed....It was a known issue that many owners complained of but they refused to fix the issue until the "recall that's not a recall" that occurred within the past year and a half. Since then, it's been ok, but I still don't trust it for long drives. The iDrive is ok. Early ones had a lot more issue, but they have gotten much more user friendly since introduction. That said, MOST car companies that had computer infotainment systems had growing pains, so not unique to BMW.

Other German cars are ok. Audi interiors fall apart quickly (test drove a 1 year old coming off lease, just BAD on the inside), and they are FWD biased. Merc. dealers in this area are bad, so after taking a test drive, we decided that no car is worth dealing with either of those two (only one in my state and only one close by in a neighboring state). Unfortunately, we only get the expensive versions over here. Merc does have some lower priced cars over in Europe, but not here.

Anyway, the point of the thread is not to discuss cars, but more to talk about the 300 series.

I see the 300 as a step up to allow new players a chance to progress their ship, make more money (we need this shipment of {name of expensive but small item} delivered to {neighboring planet/system} in the next 10 hours...we are offering 30,000 UEC.) vs a 5,000 credit shipment of goods from Crusader to Yela that a Mustang or Aurora would be offered. Something a bit more capable, faster, better sensors, or whatever. I would not call it a Luxury vehicle. For that, you are talking Phoenix, 890, etc. If you were playing a traditional level based MMO (say vanilla World of Warcraft) it is the set of armor/weapons a level 20-30 would have vs what a new character would have.

I see SC having only a few types of vehicle lines/comfort: Military (fighters, Idris, or military derivatives like the Carrack), Civilian (Freelancer, Cutlass?, Connie, etc), Industrial (Prospector, Orion, Hull, Reclaimer), Luxury (890, Phoenix, etc). I also see both roles and size as different than lines. So a 315 would be a small, civilian line explorer. A Warden would be a medium military line escort ship. A Freelancer MIS would be a medium civilian line escort ship, etc.
 

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I prefer the 350 SRW diesel. Much better milage, better hauling capacity (would only be able to load 2000 lbs including passengers in a diesel 250 if you had a cap) etc. 800 ft-lbs of torque will get things moving FAST.
Speaking of trucks, the transition from the cabin to the engine compartment of the current 300-series is about as inelegant as the transition from truck cab to bed (literally just a dark line). How do you think this'll /should be fixed?
 
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Captain Call

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I prefer the 350 SRW diesel. Much better milage, better hauling capacity (would only be able to load 2000 lbs including passengers in a diesel 250 if you had a cap) etc. 800 ft-lbs of torque will get things moving FAST.
True! for real power you have step up to F-350

your on point with whole 300 series -- actually my original point I was trying to make being - 300's are not a high-end when your compare to the Mustang or Aurora - not a big step up in the quality - I like the look but the inside needs serious attention - not to mention other performance and load-out issues.
 
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Thalstan

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actually, power isn't different between the 250 and 350. It's mostly suspension and axle capability. That's why it is usually only a few hundred over the cost of a 250.

I am ok with the insides so long as they fix the clipping issues. If I want Luxury, I will wrap my HOTAS controls with leather. I don't really care about a "leather seat" on my fictional ship. What I do care about is capability and functionality. Give me those and I am good.
 

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actually, power isn't different between the 250 and 350. It's mostly suspension and axle capability. That's why it is usually only a few hundred over the cost of a 250.

I am ok with the insides so long as they fix the clipping issues. If I want Luxury, I will wrap my HOTAS controls with leather. I don't really care about a "leather seat" on my fictional ship. What I do care about is capability and functionality. Give me those and I am good.
The issue is that luxury features in a ship in Star Citizen aren't just a skin, a pretty thing to look at. They should give some kind of a stat boost.

Some have speculated that luxury features may be used to:
  • Obtain a boost in stamina if toilet is used.
  • Obtain a sight appearance discount.
  • Cooked food as peace offerings.
  • Less suspected as criminal by NPCs
  • Save on need to rent a room
Also, there are some practical features that come with a good interior including:
  • Ability to log off in space with bed
  • Hidden compartments for contraband
  • Attractive weapons cabinets
  • Cabinets for displaying trinkets
 
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AstroSam

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HAHAHAHAHAHA

Having owned 3, I can tell you this.

They are NOT well engineered or tested. Like many manufacturers these days, they are in a rush to implement solutions and they they will fix the issues as they arise....usually at the customer's expense. My above example of the door handles is just one example of many I have of bad design.

They only have expensive materials if you are paying for them. Go drive a base 320. The seats are horrible, the leatherette is plasticy, and the insides are not even as good as the base Ford Mustag or Chevy Camaro.

Powerful Drivetrains. Yes and no. Honestly, a lot of companies get the same horsepower from the same displacement. I actually get BETTER milage driving my V8 than I did driving the 4 cylinder because the thing has no power until you get on the turbos...either that or the oil I am burning gives me extra milage...

They DO have a distinctive door closing sound, I will give you that. They also have a good chassis, and they work hard to balance the car front to back.

That said, if you are out of warranty, expect a $1,500 bill every 3 months at the shop.

My wife loves hers, which is why I bought mine. I will tell you this, I won't buy another for me...
You can't talk about German Quality and then mention the wooden chair class like the 320. You want quality? Than you have to buy the upper class. Such formula you have everywhere, not only at BMW.

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/Frozen-White-BMW-M5-By-Marcel-Lech-Photography-06.jpg

Aside from that, short story about "quality": my boss drove 2 times a Mercedes, worth each around 70k EUR and wasn't satisfied at all about their quality. Then he drove two Audis. The first Audi bored the hell out of him and he complained never to drive an Audi again.
Then it came to a test drive of an Audi S-class. Now he is driving that, never wanting to drive any other car again.
Ergo: you get what you are paying for. True story.

http://fotos.gtacaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/audis52.jpg

Side note: our family is driving a Skoda, which is kind of the most cheapest Volkswagen you can buy, and we are fully satisfied with it :)

OUh, and on topic....300series. I like it :D
 

Thalstan

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You can't talk about German Quality and then mention the wooden chair class like the 320. You want quality? Than you have to buy the upper class. Such formula you have everywhere, not only at BMW.

Ergo: you get what you are paying for. True story.

OUh, and on topic....300series. I like it :D
They only have expensive materials if you are paying for them. Go drive a base 320. The seats are horrible, the leatherette is plasticy, and the insides are not even as good as the base Ford Mustag or Chevy Camaro.
I agree Sam and it was the point I was trying to make. You only get expensive stuff if you pay for it. You only get quality if you pay for it. The old adage of car repairs are "you can have it repaired A) Cheap, B) Fast, C) Correct....choose two" also applies to buying a vehicle. The more you pay, the more features you get (more powerful or more efficient engine/powertrain, more room, more hauling capability, better interior, etc).

As for the 300, it's huge upgrade from the aurora, so I am happy.
 
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Accented

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I agree Sam and it was the point I was trying to make. You only get expensive stuff if you pay for it. You only get quality if you pay for it. The old adage of car repairs are "you can have it repaired A) Cheap, B) Fast, C) Correct....choose two" also applies to buying a vehicle. The more you pay, the more features you get (more powerful or more efficient engine/powertrain, more room, more hauling capability, better interior, etc).

As for the 300, it's huge upgrade from the aurora, so I am happy.
You must really hate the Aurora then.
 
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