Polaris weapons update/clarifacation

[hardroc77]

I feel this will make this ship not only a good offensive weapon vs larger ships, but also very good at keeping back smaller ships. thoughts?

Indeed. This could be a real sleeper.

 

[hardroc77]

We have hundreds of these in our fleet!

Has the Polaris replaced the Aurora as our official ship?
Or better yet. How many Auroras can we bring to a battle inside all of our Polaris'?

 

[Phantomoftruth]

Let's throw some of Baior's spreadsheet numbers into this mix.
largest shield is VNCL Void shield at 20000 hp, 5000k/side.
using one of the twin S4 turrets, let's say M6A, 234 dps x2 = 468 dps
over 10 seconds to bring the shield down.
Now set that target directly forward and we bring all 5 Twin S4 turrets to bear, 2340 DPS, 3 seconds
add in the twin S5 turret, M7A's, 352.56/ea = 705 dps, total fwd firepower 3045 dps, 2 sec and carry over to armor
largest torpedo is on Tali at 3000 dmg on hit, minimum damage to armor and hull 12000hp
Tali has 36000hp, 'Farer and StarG have 86000

this is a murderboat and two or three in concert utter destruction. I didn't add the auto turret, missiles, or other support.

 

[Crymsan]

I really hope this ship is as good as you say, after all we are over represented in them (shame!)! Someone has to create the scrap for other people to scavenge and find! We are just bypassing the need for explorers to find scrap! (Of course it might be a rare occurance given the relative lack of resource acquiring ships and large Hull ships and thus our lack of funds to shoot said ships).

Note I fully appreciate the current ship survey is a) both not representative because only currently active forums users are posting and therefore there will be a preponderance of those purchasing current ships and b) not necessarily how things will stay given the likely couple of years of additional ships to be released.

Still we can no doubt have a red arrows equivalent only in polaris. *Why go small!.

 

[FluffyVonRage]

The above chart does not seem to me reasonable at all. I would love it if the Retaliator suddenly had good cruise. It is the horrible cruise to date that has turned me off from it. I don't believe the stats here on the Starfarer or StarG. They make me think someone has published nonsense they made up. Who could believe a heavy hauler is faster than half the fighters? Also, the new ship speeds imply all these numbers are twice what they should be.

I'd like to believe it'd be something to do with Fighters requiring support craft etc - as well as the larger ships having space for more complex jump drives? Kinda makes sense if the end goal is to encourage fleet cohesion and create more 'space' for support roles. In regards to Starfarer speeds, I'd assume that to be to keep up with the rest of the fleet?

Or it could just be someone totally making stuff up. Luckily we're still deep in development, so if something doesn't work, no worries - fixed by next patch :D

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

I believe all larger ships in general will have high cruise speeds than smaller ships and Bombers will be faster to drop pay loads and run. If you see the Vanguard its scm is the same as a super hornet but its cruise speed is way higher. Also the after burner on the warden is ridiculously higher lol and the pitch yaw etc is in line with a Merlin. If those stats hold there going to be a few wardens more commonly seen in AC

 

[hardroc77]

Let's throw some of Baior's spreadsheet numbers into this mix.
largest shield is VNCL Void shield at 20000 hp, 5000k/side.
using one of the twin S4 turrets, let's say M6A, 234 dps x2 = 468 dps
over 10 seconds to bring the shield down.
Now set that target directly forward and we bring all 5 Twin S4 turrets to bear, 2340 DPS, 3 seconds
add in the twin S5 turret, M7A's, 352.56/ea = 705 dps, total fwd firepower 3045 dps, 2 sec and carry over to armor
largest torpedo is on Tali at 3000 dmg on hit, minimum damage to armor and hull 12000hp
Tali has 36000hp, 'Farer and StarG have 86000

this is a murderboat and two or three in concert utter destruction. I didn't add the auto turret, missiles, or other support.

Holy shit! You did math!!!
Most impressive.
We shall watch your career with great interest.

 

[Phantomoftruth]

Holy shit! You did math!!!
Most impressive.
We shall watch your career with great interest.

Well, yes. saying it has 'x' this, 'y' that, and 'z' otherthing is good. Adding actual numbers, I believe, adds nutritive value to a flavourful dish. :)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Now set that target directly forward and we bring all 5 Twin S4 turrets to bear, 2340 DPS.. .

The Void Bomber has three spinal mounts that would cut the Polaris to ribbons well before the Polaris could get within turret range. This is why CIG has specifically said they are anti-fighter turrets intended for defense and are useless against cap ships. You can use them on anything smaller than the Polaris, but not against ships of the same size or larger. You should not even plan to use a Polaris' turrets against another Polaris because if you do, that other ship will blow you to tiny bits with is torpedoes well before you are in range.

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

The Void Bomber has three spinal mounts that would cut the Polaris to ribbons well before the Polaris could get within turret range. This is why CIG has specifically said they are anti-fighter turrets intended for defense and are useless against cap ships. You can use them on anything smaller than the Polaris, but not against ships of the same size or larger. You should not even plan to use a Polaris' turrets against another Polaris because if you do, that other ship will blow you to tiny bits with is torpedoes well before you are in range.

Last seen the Vaandul Bomber stats showed 3 x S6 turrets. Thats a shit ton of firepower right there without taking into account its other turrets. 7 x S4. Its a beast. I'd sell all my ships if this were on sale.

LENGTH 124m
BEAM 90m
HEIGHT 33m
MAX CREW UNKNOWN
POWER PLANT 4 (equivalent)
ENGINE (PRIMARY THRUSTER) 3x TR5 (equivalent)
MANEUVERING THRUSTERS 10x TR3 (equivalent)
SHIELD 5 (equivalent)
FIXED GUNS 3 x Size 6 – Electron Cannon
MISSILES 4 x Size 4 – Triple-Mount Torpedo Cluster
TURRETS 7 x Size 4 – Laser Repeater Turret

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Yes. It's not just the firepower, but the range. People tend to forget that the dogfighting distances we see between various ships is nothing like cap ship combat. People think about these S4 and S5 weapons with ranges of 2-4 km and forget that Cap ships can see and target at much greater distances and usually have larger targets. Torpedoes can have ranges on the order of 85 km, so how do you think you will engage a Void Bomber with S4 weapons and not be blown to hell before you can even get in range? I recall seeing ranges for the Vanduul Electron Cannon some months ago, and although the figures were suspect, they were 20 km. That is a decent bet especially since small ships and especially fast ships like the Polaris will be able to get out of the way at great range. What they can't do though, is dodge a torpedo. I think for that you need countermeasures for sure, but also a pair of those Aegis Ballistic Repeaters spitting out a dozen rounds per second would be really handy.

 

[Phantomoftruth]

Yes. It's not just the firepower, but the range. People tend to forget that the dogfighting distances we see between various ships is nothing like cap ship combat. People think about these S4 and S5 weapons with ranges of 2-4 km and forget that Cap ships can see and target at much greater distances and usually have larger targets. Torpedoes can have ranges on the order of 85 km, so how do you think you will engage a Void Bomber with S4 weapons and not be blown to hell before you can even get in range? I recall seeing ranges for the Vanduul Electron Cannon some months ago, and although the figures were suspect, they were 20 km. That is a decent bet especially since small ships and especially fast ships like the Polaris will be able to get out of the way at great range. What they can't do though, is dodge a torpedo. I think for that you need countermeasures for sure, but also a pair of those Aegis Ballistic Repeaters spitting out a dozen rounds per second would be really handy.

good points all around. and yes, I did not account for effective distance.

 

[BUTUZ]

Indeed. This could be a real sleeper.

It's 150 metres long, shaped like darth vaders super star destroyer, has a million guns, and is shooting 24 huge torpedoes whilst it zooms past on boost.

Very innocuous. I hardly noticed it. Mind you I was very drunk.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

After reviewing the weapons available for the twin S5 mount, I can see unless they add some new weapons the thing to do is beg, barter, grovel and blackmail to get them to allow that installation only as a quad S4 so I can put 4 Revenants on it for killing torpedoes. Anyone here good at childishly demanding to get their way in the face of insurmountable odds? What if I send Chris Roberts Christmas ale?

 

[hardroc77]

So the Polaris turrets are ineffective against another Polaris or larger ships?
The only offense it has is torpedoes, as far as other Capital ships?

 

[hardroc77]

What they can't do though, is dodge a torpedo

Does Polaris have flares and chaff? And will they be larger, or more effective on missiles and torps coming from a larger ship like the Polaris.

 

[hardroc77]

adds nutritive value to a flavourful dish. :)

Such words!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

So the Polaris turrets are ineffective against another Polaris or larger ships?
The only offense it has is torpedoes, as far as other Capital ships?

It's not that the weapons are ineffective, but that they don't provide a tactical advantage if they are not hitting out of range of their opponent, or doing more damage than their opponent. Matched against weapons of like type, but with the Polaris wearing less armor than all other cap ships, it would be most unwise to engage. Except with the torpedoes, the Polaris would get sliced and diced were it to take on a Void Bomber or Idris.

Does Polaris have flares and chaff? And will they be larger, or more effective on missiles and torps coming from a larger ship like the Polaris.

I'm sure it has countermeasures, but I did read something months ago that said the larger a missile is the less susceptible it is to decoy. S10 torpedoes may be waylaid by chaff but if you launch four and half are led away, you are still ruining someone's day.

It is very important with cap ships to realize the large distinction between them and fighters. With fighters, it is tactical skill and literally twitchy skill or dexterity that wins conflicts. With caps ships where there is almost no maneuvering, the whole battle is won or lost on strategy. There may be some small circumstance where the Polaris' speed can be of use in a conflict, but most of the time the speed of the ship will determine whether it is involved in a conflict at all. Using that speed to catch and engage larger ships is only worthwhile if one can strike out of range of the larger ship guns and neutralize their torpedoes by decoy or shoot them down. 4 Revenants could conceivably shoot down incoming torps, hence my interest there. Trying to do the same with 2 Aegis Ballistics would be about 3 times harder.

 

[Gearen]

Now I love my Polaris even more :)