SilentB-TEST
Commander
Lol, I just ment the more money we all put in to the game the bigger Chris Roberts can dream which is a good thing for all of us. I am sure I'll find plenty of ways to make some credit in no time.
Do I Really Need a Fighter?
- Thread starter NapalmX
- Start date
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
By adding the Freelancer you lose the nice high top speed of the Cutlass. This is just what I recommend against. Ships with high top speeds are optimized around this, and to throw this benefit away for any reason should be done with great hesitancy. Part of what makes the Cutlass a great ship is it is blinding fast for a transport. If you are willing to fly as slow as a Lancer, but want to fly with escort, wouldn't you be better off flying a Retaliator? And it would be cheaper methinks. . .Too, think of the stealth capabilities of the Retaliator. It is in the heritage of the Sabre and Vanguard, so we should expect at least limited stealth. That is what keeps shipping safe.
Since you can store ammo on the Tally, putting in 10X Tarantulas mark 3s gives excellent range and fast speeds to target. The Tally should have much better armor, should be able to fit the game changing "stronghold" shields for more than 12k coverage and huge refresh rates and most importantly, S2 scan so you can see threats before they see you. Trouble of course is, it is slow.
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Several things:
1) The Cutlass is only 10 m/s faster in SCM and 30 M/s faster with afterburner. I wound't call that a significant difference.
2) Just because the Retaliator is made by the same company as the Sabre, does not mean that they share stealth genes. Aegis also makes the Idris and Javelin, which are pretty much the most non-stealth ships I can think of. At least the Bengal can pretend to be a moon or something. You're going to have to equip a lot of low-emission components in order to keep it stealthy. The Cutlass Black comes standard with low emission components.
3) The Retaliator doesn't actually hold that much cargo and it requires a lot of people to effectively crew since it has 5 manned turrets. Also, the Retaliator may not fit through small jump points where the Freelancer and Cutlass are still planned to. The Retaliator is nice for other jobs, but I don't think it's really good for cargo.
4) Have the guns on the Retaliator been upgraded from S2's to S3's?
I recommended the Freelancer in that 3 ship squadron since OP already has a Freelancer. 2 Cutlasses and a Freelancer would haul much more than 1 Retaliator and require the same crew. They would also have more guns in total and more missiles by far. Trying to work with what he has :|
Plagueis
Admiral
I use to have a retaliator but ended up getting rid of it since I didn't feel like it was useful to me. I don't really care much for the 5 gun turrets. Freelancer and Cutlass are both more useful to my needs overall.
I don't want to be just another person repeating "this is alpha, it's too early to tell". However, it's alpha. It's too early to tell.
Allow me to expand on that though. I can see a pretty huge division brewing on the game play and player types. You will have the space farmville players. Most of the time, they will be working on their cash flow. They will be involved mainly in non-combat roles, I'd say at least 90% of their time in game will be played without shooting anything. Then you will have the PVP'rs. They will be out hunting most of the time. They'll either be in arena commander, or out in the 'verse looking for targets. They will exist on both sides of "the law". So you will have bounty hunters, pirates, and general white knights looking for a fight.
This will likely mirror most MMO's in population. Somewhere between 75 and 90% of the game will be space farmville, and the rest will be pvp'rs. To answer your question, only the solid pvp'rs will actually need a fighter in their fleet. All the rest can make due with whatever ship they have. All the ships have guns on them so you can be helpful in any capacity if there is an org call to arms, even if you are just crewing on someone else's ship. So it all depends on what parts of the game you want to pursue.
There is one other possible issue that had been floating around my head when it comes to owning a ship that is exclusively a fighter. That's the unknown final version of fuel. I have a sneaky suspicion that we will need to FedEx our fighters around the verse. I really don't know if you will be able to fly your fighter from one side to the other without outside assistance. It may be like trying to drive your riding lawnmower cross-country. You may find sections of road that are too far between gas stations.
Depending on how the final version plays out, we may not see very many dedicated fighters in the verse. At least, not that far away from the nearest gas station. You may only see longer range, larger ships once you venture out a certain distance from a service hub. You'll see them all over arena commander, but possibly not out in the big black. Think of it like a modern day fighter jet. They can only travel a certain distance. If you need to deploy them far away, you will need an aircraft carrier or a series of stops at various airports. Given CR's love of modern accuracy, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this concept ended up in the verse.
So, long story short, I doubt a lack of a dedicated fighter will limit your gameplay options. In fact, I think the opposite will be true. If you only had a fighter, you may not be able to experience the game as a whole.
Very interesting thread!! I've been thinking this too. Can I get away with my Carrack, BMM, and a Freelancer MIS for small high value hauls, and a Freelancer Max for starting out / general hauling. If so I can get rid of my Sabre, and my Vanguard. I love the vanguard though so I see difficulty ahead!!!
I wonder... could the manned turrets on the Tali be switched out for flashfire mounts? If not now, in the near future? That would be a lot of forward facing firepower.
Stop it! Stop it right now! I don't want to window shop a Retaliator. I don't want to window shop a Retaliator. Gotta hide my credit card(s).
Wow, now this is an interesting post. I have a feeling, upon pondering your thoughts, that you bring an excellent idea. Food for thought.
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Yup. Need to wait and see, though I can't understand how the Tally can act as a bomber with such a low speed unless it has some limited stealth. I would look for that as stealth comes into game.
188k is a lot more than the Lancer Max and a pair of Cultass which is 98k. Twice as much. We need to see how that cargo gets locked down, but the Base Tally is yet to be explained and it appears may have some interesting uses, like cargo transport.
I don't think so. They're S4 turrets so we'll need to wait to find out if that means twin S2s or twin S3s. Reports on this differ but the standing notion is divide the turret rating by 2 to get the max weapons size, which would be S2. It comes with S1s installed. Some are still saying reduce by one step which is S3. I think technically S2 is correct but that does not make the Tally appear to be much of a bomber, especially given its low speed. Note the Tally was designed before the last weapons rework, so we may see CIG upgrade those turrets. Twin S3 weapons makes good sense for that platform.
Depends on what you want to do in the verse. I like the try before you buy idea ( REC).
I'll always have room for 1 more in my Vanguard, and could really use someone to clean the combo toilette/shower..... just sayin!
I'll always have room for 1 more in my Vanguard, and could really use someone to clean the combo toilette/shower..... just sayin!
Food for thought. I would double like this post if I could. I concur with your thought/opinion/assumption that people will need to operate out of a hub if flying a fighter, Vanguard excluded of course. It will certainly add another interesting dynamic to the game. One I like. People would certainly have to think through and plan out their COAs before deciding to say, head to the other side of the verse.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea as well. It may be painful at times, but I honestly think it would be a good thing for fighters and small ships to be stuck in a single solar system without outside assistance. The amount of quantum fuel a ship can carry really needs to be a limiting factor.
If you make the comparison to other fantasy mmos, it would be the argument that fast travel and flying mounts make the gaming world feel smaller. I really want this world to feel as huge as is currently promised. I want to feel like there is huge amounts of distance between planets. When I first started playing, everything was just a few seconds of quantum away. It wasn't until I ran out of quantum fuel and tried to cruise to the nearest planet that I realized just how far apart the points of interest actually were. Until that moment, the PU was tiny.
I just don't want to see the wasted potential that comes with unlimited quick travel. You never truly feel how expansive a mmo world is, unless it actually takes time to move from one side to the other. I hope they don't take the easy way out like so many other games and make travel easy.
Well said. Especially the part about needing this game to feel huge.
I concur wholeheartedly.
if you're a small ship pilot and want to relocate
put your ship up for sale on the local market
call Space Uber for a ride to your destination
buy another ship when you get there
put your ship up for sale on the local market
call Space Uber for a ride to your destination
buy another ship when you get there
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Or take work flying escort for a group who can supply you with fuel for the trip. Even if you cannot refuel in space like off a StarG with a refueling probe, you can refuel anything that will fit in a Polaris, for exmaple; and so an make much longer trips. Any movement of an Idris would be the same, and larger ships will always want escorts.
First off, buy what you want to play.
Second off...it's too early to say what a lot of us will want to play....
RIght now, there isn't much beyond combat. Yeah, a few PI missions, etc, but almost everything revolves around combat of some sort or another....either doing it, or avoiding it.
Once 3.0+ hits, we should start seeing some of the non-combat roles. That will really be where we see how much depth this game will have. It's here where we will lean just how viable cargo running, mining, exploring, etc will be.
Oh, and for all those people saying how they will hire NPCs to pilot fighters, etc...as far as I know, the only thing that has been said is the ability to hire NPCs for multi crew ships. I have not seen anything official about being able to hire an NPC to fly your fleet of fighters as escort while you pilot your Hull-E. Now, that said...they may put that mechanic in, or they may not. Even if they said they would be doing it, we don't know how good they will be.
My advice (which I admit, I did not follow myself), is to wait and see how 3.0-4.0 progresses and make your ship purchasing decisions then, not now when there are still so many unknowns.
Finally, there are a lot of us with extra ships...we can't fly them all at the same time... come crew with us or maybe help escort us....if I need a fighter escort, I would rather get a real person over an NPC, even if I have to loan them a ship to do so.
Second off...it's too early to say what a lot of us will want to play....
RIght now, there isn't much beyond combat. Yeah, a few PI missions, etc, but almost everything revolves around combat of some sort or another....either doing it, or avoiding it.
Once 3.0+ hits, we should start seeing some of the non-combat roles. That will really be where we see how much depth this game will have. It's here where we will lean just how viable cargo running, mining, exploring, etc will be.
Oh, and for all those people saying how they will hire NPCs to pilot fighters, etc...as far as I know, the only thing that has been said is the ability to hire NPCs for multi crew ships. I have not seen anything official about being able to hire an NPC to fly your fleet of fighters as escort while you pilot your Hull-E. Now, that said...they may put that mechanic in, or they may not. Even if they said they would be doing it, we don't know how good they will be.
My advice (which I admit, I did not follow myself), is to wait and see how 3.0-4.0 progresses and make your ship purchasing decisions then, not now when there are still so many unknowns.
Finally, there are a lot of us with extra ships...we can't fly them all at the same time... come crew with us or maybe help escort us....if I need a fighter escort, I would rather get a real person over an NPC, even if I have to loan them a ship to do so.
I have just focused on the bigger ships I want first, that suit what I expect to do in SC. But I also picked out so I have a faster M50 that i'll probably keep if not the razor is even faster and one fighter a Hornet at the moment. For the reason sometime a misson can be done in a smaler craft and then it could come in handy to have one to use. The hornet can exchange it turent to a ball turret, flashfire turret, cargo box, tracker antena or stelth unit and It was a no brainer for me, just logical conclusion that the Hornet is the best fighter to own IMO. But I tested alot ships to come up with wich small ships I am interested in, that still is in the line of what I want to do and maby give a alternative job sometime.
Op4ArcticFox
Space Marshal
Only if you want to do combat as a focus, should you get a combat focused ship. If you want to do something else, but are getting harassed by combat elements, then you have the rest of us who do want to focus on combat to have your back. You might not be able to afford a decent enough NPC pilot to fly an extra ship, we have scores of people who straight up wont care if their ship gets blasted. Buy whatever ships you think you might enjoy. And just because you own a ship doesn't mean you have to use it, or use it for its intended purpose. Emergent gameplay and all that, just do whats fun. Your wingmates will take care of the rest.