I am in complete agreement with you there so far as I have seen with turrets in the current alpha they are pretty useless especially while you are trying to move around and shoot stuff they need some type of assisted targeting system or something or just make them so strong that people are not going to come within range of the turrets and each shot will massively count. On another note I got to be a turret in the Aegis Retaliator and those torpedoes are ridiculously strong almost every pirate we attacked was downed in 1 torpedo. Not to mention the interior of the ship was beautiful. Seriously considering on up(or downgrading) into one. Another thing I noticed yesterday is that I believe the connie is going to be able to equipped missles which could drastically help with firepower. Do you guys know what types of missles/torpedoes would be good in them?
Current Warbirds
- Thread starter Sirus7264
- Start date
The andromeda has missiles already. Next time your in it give them a shot. You can lock 4 at a time but missiles in general are easy to dodge if you do the shoot boost 3km away come back and shoot. And its alot of changing to switch missiles out since you gota do it one missile at a time.
Turrets are there to compensate for your lack of manuverability but they dont work atm. And the ones she has arnt enough punch to scare anyone away either. If you go bigger to the polaris you will find it only takes longer to kill you. Situation is the same. If they are good enough to dodge and hit you you will die. Good turret gunners and escort fighters will be key to take out fighters. This is and will be true for every multi-crew ship. Never bring one alone and expect to take out fighters. Bring friends and even the odds.
If you want a ship to take out fighters get a fighter. Ever hear the saying never bring a knife to a gun fight? Same goes for here. Also this game is far from final and TTK and balance are no where near final. We may end up with much more beafy tanks on larger ships then they have now. We dont know for sure.
Turrets are there to compensate for your lack of manuverability but they dont work atm. And the ones she has arnt enough punch to scare anyone away either. If you go bigger to the polaris you will find it only takes longer to kill you. Situation is the same. If they are good enough to dodge and hit you you will die. Good turret gunners and escort fighters will be key to take out fighters. This is and will be true for every multi-crew ship. Never bring one alone and expect to take out fighters. Bring friends and even the odds.
If you want a ship to take out fighters get a fighter. Ever hear the saying never bring a knife to a gun fight? Same goes for here. Also this game is far from final and TTK and balance are no where near final. We may end up with much more beafy tanks on larger ships then they have now. We dont know for sure.
The andromeda has missiles already. Next time your in it give them a shot. You can lock 4 at a time but missiles in general are easy to dodge if you do the shoot boost 3km away come back and shoot. And its alot of changing to switch missiles out since you gota do it one missile at a time.
Turrets are there to compensate for your lack of manuverability but they dont work atm. And the ones she has arnt enough punch to scare anyone away either. If you go bigger to the polaris you will find it only takes longer to kill you. Situation is the same. If they are good enough to dodge and hit you you will die. Good turret gunners and escort fighters will be key to take out fighters. This is and will be true for every multi-crew ship. Never bring one alone and expect to take out fighters. Bring friends and even the odds.
If you want a ship to take out fighters get a fighter. Ever hear the saying never bring a knife to a gun fight? Same goes for here. Also this game is far from final and TTK and balance are no where near final. We may end up with much more beafy tanks on larger ships then they have now. We dont know for sure.
Turrets are there to compensate for your lack of manuverability but they dont work atm. And the ones she has arnt enough punch to scare anyone away either. If you go bigger to the polaris you will find it only takes longer to kill you. Situation is the same. If they are good enough to dodge and hit you you will die. Good turret gunners and escort fighters will be key to take out fighters. This is and will be true for every multi-crew ship. Never bring one alone and expect to take out fighters. Bring friends and even the odds.
If you want a ship to take out fighters get a fighter. Ever hear the saying never bring a knife to a gun fight? Same goes for here. Also this game is far from final and TTK and balance are no where near final. We may end up with much more beafy tanks on larger ships then they have now. We dont know for sure.
Lets be honest in the current build of the game all the in game bigger ships are just there to be beaten up by the fighters. You are there purely as a target, your slow poorly manoeuvring with very little defence and turrets are a joke. Even if turrets work I do not ever envisage this changing and the fighters jocks love it. The only advantage you will have over them is range but that doesn't apply currently.
The Khartu Al is more complicated, I like that ship a lot but it is not going to win most fighter vs fighter engagements. Its best hope is that at some point it will get specific alien system weopons that actually give it some fire power that cannot be used on the other fighters. In the mean time I would fly something else.
I do not think your plan of upgrading the connie to an Aquila is bad though, there is lots being done on planets and even though you will still be a sitting duck free target for the bully boyz it will allow you to deploy the rover and explore that part of the game which seems to be the main current non combat focus.
Also balance is still happening but if you buy a ship that is not solely for combat do not expect great performance against specialist ships. The extent to which you will be forced to be a target for such ships is still in development and not known but if we have to go down the convoy system this game will be dead for me.
The Khartu Al is more complicated, I like that ship a lot but it is not going to win most fighter vs fighter engagements. Its best hope is that at some point it will get specific alien system weopons that actually give it some fire power that cannot be used on the other fighters. In the mean time I would fly something else.
I do not think your plan of upgrading the connie to an Aquila is bad though, there is lots being done on planets and even though you will still be a sitting duck free target for the bully boyz it will allow you to deploy the rover and explore that part of the game which seems to be the main current non combat focus.
Also balance is still happening but if you buy a ship that is not solely for combat do not expect great performance against specialist ships. The extent to which you will be forced to be a target for such ships is still in development and not known but if we have to go down the convoy system this game will be dead for me.
I agree the khartu-al is a really nice ship but they really weakened the power which is why i was thinking about upgrading it to something else, but just like you think they may rebuff it and give it some real power which is why its hard for me to say goodbye to my first ship i bought.
The Connie is no dogfighter, but more like the smallest capital ship. It currently is more for amazement than for gameplay, because the turret functions are not developed yet and the shield systematics have to be reworked. Chris Roberts stated that, when SC will be released, even a Connie would take several minutes to bring her down. So don't worry about it, things will go the right way the closer we come towards 4.0 or beta.
There is no "best fighter". There is only the figher which suits you the best! You have to try the different type of ships in the Arena Commander - best case in single player as well as multiplayer mode, because there are huge differences in fighting KI opponents and real human opponents - and very fast you will be able to pick the best fighter for your piloting skills. Use REC to rent other ships.
Put this LTI-question aside, it doesn't matter. You have enough time to pick an LTI ship of your choice. Instead, concentrate on the above question "which ship suits me best aka my piloting/fighting skills"?
Aurora Series - not real fighters, except the LN, if you are a real ace.
Mustang Series - only the Delta, but this is a beast, if you can handle her, looking to fixed weapon points.
Avenger Series - tiny but deadly because of the Tigerstreik; poor thrusters though.
300 Series - not good for dogfighting, except for the 350R, imho
Buccaneer - mother of all dogfighters; currently. Will be "nerfed" most probably. And you have to be at least a pro-pilot to handle her.
Cutlass Series - more a tank than a dogfighter. And the turret can't be operated by the pilot thus you need a turret gunner
Hornet series - was once the prior dogfighting series. Has become minor love and today is, except of the SuperHornet, way underpowered compared to the new released ships
Warden Series - perfect backup muscle, but cannon fodder in MP doghfight. In AC MP you will get ripped apart very fast.
Hurricane(not out yet) - like the Buccaneer it is planned to become a "glas cannon". Hence no dogfighter, more a hit&run kind of vessel
Gladius series - have not flown her much, but is something like the 08/15 standard UEE dogfighter
Redeemer - planned to become a troup transport with fighting abilities
Scythe - mighty fighter, devastating weapons. I like her very much, but have problems with this blade design of the wings. Hence I went back to my SuperHornet.
Freelance MIS - no dogfighter, but a missile boat. Always good to have one in your back like a "big brother"
Esperia Glaive - like the Scythe, but less agile.
Sabre series - is today that what the Hornet was once: the standard superiour dogfighter.
Retaliator Series - no dogfighter. The pilot of the bomber version has no gun control at all!
Esperia Blade - not released yet. Will most probably become something like the Buccaneer, powerful but fragile.
...but a dream. :slight_smile:
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
If you were to find that on ships short of cap ships, the role of the fighter would be greatly diminished, and CIG has said they intend for the fighter to be the backbone of all ship to ship engagement. There is only one ship designed to fight fighters and win--the Corvette--and it remains to be seen whether the Polaris has the shields and armor to handle conflicts with fighters. Not all Corvettes are anti-fighter ships. Certainly you should never expect a lesser ship--a non-military vessel like the Connie, to have anything past a prayer against even a small group of fighters. If you are going to fly a Connie without escort, learn to run away.
It is by intention there is a huge gap in marshal capability between military and non-militay craft. You should expect a huge difference in missile lock times between the Vanguard and a Mustang, and a huge difference in turret capability between a Connie and a Tally. It will not just be size. The Tally was bred for battle. If you really want a Connie sized craft that can take a beating, you might consider the Tally, but she is going to be slow methinks. Either way, the only way to be safe is pay a fighter escort.
Just to be clear all "fighters" that people can buy are the non military versions of the ships. It is not unreasonable for people to expect them to not be super duper awesome against all ships. Currently larger ships have no speed no armour no shields and no guns (due to turrets and no maneuver) so yeah no chance.
AstroGimp01
Space Marshal
Any discussion of the Connie in its current state simply makes me sad.
I know, 'alpha', 'balance', etc., but we were sold 'space superiority', and right now it is only a superior target. I love the model, the design is well thought out and functional and as supposedly Chris' favorite I assume it will eventually get some love but right now I only look at it in hangar since it is just a shit magnet in the PU.
'Gimp
I know, 'alpha', 'balance', etc., but we were sold 'space superiority', and right now it is only a superior target. I love the model, the design is well thought out and functional and as supposedly Chris' favorite I assume it will eventually get some love but right now I only look at it in hangar since it is just a shit magnet in the PU.
'Gimp
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Actually there is one notable exception peeps ought to look into. It is possible ships like the Connie can mount a full electronic warfare package. Depending upon many things, just this might keep one safe at least for a little bit. If you can confuse an enemy just enough you do not have to fight.
For this reason skilled e-warfare officers are going to earn top dollar in the 'verse., but the opposite will be true too. Heaven help the merchants if the Prowler can mount an e-war package.
In alpha stage, we 'll all concur that talking about balance is as useful as an empty beer...
I only hope that a nice equilibrium will ultimately be found and that tactics, cunning and skill will be the main factors : fighters of course were built for air dominance but should in no way be dominant by themselves out of the blue but instead relying on Intel, logistics, surprise, etc to achieve victory.
In thecsame way, well organised and skilled transports - either armed to the teeth, running in convoy or by any other mean- should be able to repel fighters not as well organized - both realistically and from a gameplay point of view -.
The speed advantage allows the choice of the time of engagement and the ability to flee if everything goes south ; being able to destroy transports/medium ships without beating a sweat using any reformed/militia fighters would limit player cooperation and innovation rather than enhance it.
I only hope that a nice equilibrium will ultimately be found and that tactics, cunning and skill will be the main factors : fighters of course were built for air dominance but should in no way be dominant by themselves out of the blue but instead relying on Intel, logistics, surprise, etc to achieve victory.
In thecsame way, well organised and skilled transports - either armed to the teeth, running in convoy or by any other mean- should be able to repel fighters not as well organized - both realistically and from a gameplay point of view -.
The speed advantage allows the choice of the time of engagement and the ability to flee if everything goes south ; being able to destroy transports/medium ships without beating a sweat using any reformed/militia fighters would limit player cooperation and innovation rather than enhance it.
Op4ArcticFox
Space Marshal
Once Beta comes around, I highly doubt a small fighter acting alone will be able to penetrate the shields of a cap ship like the Polaris. Like, they can go AFK and it wouldn't fucking matter. Multiple ships would be another story, but with that you also increase the number of targets they can hit. Plus a larger ship can always just fly away, having a much greater jump range than any fighter.
Smaller to mid range multirole ships aren't made for combat, however once the modules come online, you will be able to swap out various parts for ones better suited for combat. Which will increase your survivability greatly, through better shields, power/management, weapon systems, and armor. But keep in mind, they are still multirole ships, they are not designed with the intent of shooting every MoFo out there. You will still be outclassed by a GOOD/SKILLED dedicated fighter in a fight.
Another thing to keep in mind with the larger ships, you will have a crew. And that will increase your ability to be a fucking badass a ton. A small fighter has a pilot managing EVERYTHING, all while trying to combat someone. A larger ship has someone dedicated to those subsystems. The pilot focuses on piloting. Meaning yeah the Connie may be a lot less maneuverable, but a good pilot will still keep you on AT LEAST a level playing ground, give those turrets/guns a chance.
Now thats been said, remember as I've stated a dozen times already. Turrets and shields in their current state, are placeholder/broken. They are in no way, shape, or form, representative of the final product. They are in rework, this very moment people at CIG are going over numbers and working with designers and engineers to build a better system. They are going all Weyland-Yutani on us, and building better worlds. So yeah thing's aren't great right now, but thats because its still the pre-alpha system in place, which is old and broken. Wait for that new hotness. If I read one more person complain about turrets and shields being broken, I will fly to your home and punch you right in your stupid mouth. We fucking know they are broken and uselss, CIG knows, Polygon knows, fucking Derek Smiths cat knows. It's going to be changed, when it's ready to be changed.
But wait, there's more... Systems aren't fully online yet like ARMOR, or manufacture differences for specific pieces like thrusters. So balance is right out the fucking window, and this is a space sim, so that means it's been airlocked. Dying, gasping in the cold unforgiving darkness of space (just like my love life). So take with a grain of salt different ships abilities over others. We have a LONG way to go before we are even semi-representative of a finished product. Be critical of things that don't seem right, absolutely; just also keep in mind it's not done, it's being actively worked on, and knee-jerk reactions help no one.
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Smaller to mid range multirole ships aren't made for combat, however once the modules come online, you will be able to swap out various parts for ones better suited for combat. Which will increase your survivability greatly, through better shields, power/management, weapon systems, and armor. But keep in mind, they are still multirole ships, they are not designed with the intent of shooting every MoFo out there. You will still be outclassed by a GOOD/SKILLED dedicated fighter in a fight.
Another thing to keep in mind with the larger ships, you will have a crew. And that will increase your ability to be a fucking badass a ton. A small fighter has a pilot managing EVERYTHING, all while trying to combat someone. A larger ship has someone dedicated to those subsystems. The pilot focuses on piloting. Meaning yeah the Connie may be a lot less maneuverable, but a good pilot will still keep you on AT LEAST a level playing ground, give those turrets/guns a chance.
Now thats been said, remember as I've stated a dozen times already. Turrets and shields in their current state, are placeholder/broken. They are in no way, shape, or form, representative of the final product. They are in rework, this very moment people at CIG are going over numbers and working with designers and engineers to build a better system. They are going all Weyland-Yutani on us, and building better worlds. So yeah thing's aren't great right now, but thats because its still the pre-alpha system in place, which is old and broken. Wait for that new hotness. If I read one more person complain about turrets and shields being broken, I will fly to your home and punch you right in your stupid mouth. We fucking know they are broken and uselss, CIG knows, Polygon knows, fucking Derek Smiths cat knows. It's going to be changed, when it's ready to be changed.
But wait, there's more... Systems aren't fully online yet like ARMOR, or manufacture differences for specific pieces like thrusters. So balance is right out the fucking window, and this is a space sim, so that means it's been airlocked. Dying, gasping in the cold unforgiving darkness of space (just like my love life). So take with a grain of salt different ships abilities over others. We have a LONG way to go before we are even semi-representative of a finished product. Be critical of things that don't seem right, absolutely; just also keep in mind it's not done, it's being actively worked on, and knee-jerk reactions help no one.
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Too bad they will NEVER release it.Best Warbird from the 2015 build leak. The Vanduul Stinger.
Agreed, only a bad example, the Mustang doesn't carry any missiles, only the Delta has rocket pods. Try to take a good aimed volley of rockets and keep smiling. There was a time where I preferred rockets above missiles.
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
One of the things easy to over look with the Polaris is it probably mounts S3 sensors, so will see ships at great range, and the S3 missiles have terrific range--much greater than any fighter weapons. Small fighters can dodge gunfire, but the S3 missiles are supposed to be the hardest to evade and I would not want to attack a Polaris without stealth. I can see attacking it with a Prowler, but not with a group of Vanguard. You would get your ass kicked.
Op4ArcticFox
Space Marshal
I think that right there is going to be a mistake on your part. A group we well kitted Vanguards who are working together will be a force to be reckoned with. Probably not enough to take on a true Capitol Ship, but still a heck of a fight. One lone stealth fighter literally wont even register they are being attacked. You would be a gnat, which they would crush.
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
I have actually been running wargaming scenarios in my mind for many months on how to use a handful of Vanguard or Prowlers effectively for privateering. The methods vary greatly depending upon whether you use speed (the Vanguards) or stealth (the Prowler and Ghost Tracker). The trouble with Vanguard are they form big radar signatures in cross section, heat and EM. There will probably be no way to hide them, so they are running down their targets. You can't do that against a Polaris. If it fires 4 S3 missiles and the reload cycle is even as long as 20 seconds, it will cut your band of Vanguard to ribbons. OTOH, a pair of Prowlers could do the job of taking a Polaris with maybe just 1 Ghost Tracker doing a draw play. Thinking about this is making the Prowlers near and dear to my heart. I really want to know what sort of range they have, and whether they can mount an e-war unit in that empty room up top.
Op4ArcticFox
Space Marshal
Keep in mind the Vanguard has an Electronic Warfare variant, that will be able to jam and scramble missile locks. Plus they have the power plants for shields big and strong enough to take several hits. Something like the Prowler is all about that small sig. So it's low power, you wont be able to strap something big enough to even phase the Polaris. Your DPS will likely be lower than its passive shield regen, but if they hit you even once, you're space dust.
EDIT: I was thinking Ghost not Prowler, in which case they probably have some hefty directional shielding when they aren't being stealth ninjas. But they still won't be able to pierce the shields of a cap ship, so they still aren't a threat on their own. However this is where fleet composition comes in, you have a couple E-War ships playing flashy flashy with the caps sensors, while you have some torpedo boats hit those shields hard, you can probably use something like a Prowler or a Redeemer to get some people on board that ship. From there who knows, I honestly doubt many boarding actions will ever succeed. It's just logical that a ship of the line would be designed with that in mind. Making it next to impossible to do successfully.
EDIT: I was thinking Ghost not Prowler, in which case they probably have some hefty directional shielding when they aren't being stealth ninjas. But they still won't be able to pierce the shields of a cap ship, so they still aren't a threat on their own. However this is where fleet composition comes in, you have a couple E-War ships playing flashy flashy with the caps sensors, while you have some torpedo boats hit those shields hard, you can probably use something like a Prowler or a Redeemer to get some people on board that ship. From there who knows, I honestly doubt many boarding actions will ever succeed. It's just logical that a ship of the line would be designed with that in mind. Making it next to impossible to do successfully.
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Thanks guys this is all good info and yes it is still in alpha I keep forgetting that at times when I get frustrated. I'll keep my Andromeda a bit longer and just hold out until beta with it (unless some super pack comes out then I'll melt stuff and snag it). It just shocked me a bit that a small little fighter just one not a group could absolutely roast a bigger ship like that by abusing the blind spot and maneuverability. I got the test out the warden yesterday but wasn't to impressed with the missiles on it I took out I think 2 or 3 pirates with all of the missiles I had on board costing about 5k money to restock. not to mention the front gun on it was nearly non-existent. That retaliator though really does pack a punch with those torpedo I bet they cost a fortune to restock though. I have high expectations for the redeemer though any word on that one yet it looks very massive on gun power. If I get a fighter its going to be a fighter with a lot of firepower 2 man or not.