Video: No! You can't keep that stolen ship!

[sum1]

Ok here are my two cents.

So I think the issue is really about progression. how do you start with a starter ship and go all the way to a cap ship? well, I think there should be two branches. Lawful and Unlawful.
If you are a lawful player you help the UEE out, or other groups, you make enough money, and at some point, the UEE says, "hey, you are a good guy, want an Idris? it will cost you _______ UEC" as long as you keep your standing with the UEE high enough you can buy an Idris if you have the time.
On the other hand, if you want to play outside the law you will run jobs for crime orgs or brokers. As you become more trusted they will help you out more, for the right price. Most of your money will be made by taking cargo and selling it to the brokers or selling ships to chop shops. Now if make enough money and meet the right people some of them may know a hacker that could change your transponder, for the right price. (that price is very close to the UEE price.)

This would give both lawful and unlawful ways to earn the big ships but would require both to work for it. just in different ways.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Insurance fraud still needs to be addressed. Even without stealing a ship... I could take my own ship, strip it of weapons and components, and arrange an accident.... file for a replacement and voila! I have a new ship with all the stock components on it... and the components I took off the original.

Ohhhhh, Dumpers Depot will go bankrupt the amount of Badgers I'll be flooding them with!

I'll be the first guy to buy an Idris off the back of Insurance Coolers, generators, shields and stock weapons. I'll call the ship "The Generosity Of Strangers" and I'll do an insurance strip on it every week too, to top up my UEC.

They could make it part of the Lore, the UEE is strapped for cash as it is, perhaps a Lore change could make it because of Insurance Fraud rather than over expansion and Space Wars. We could have the worlds first Accountancy Space Sim... The best damn Accountancy Space Sim! or TBDASS for short.

 

[CosmicTrader]

Well at least now we know who was looking forward to using this exploit.........

Comment ---
1. Most of the Devs comments are in direct contradiction to what CR has planned (and said) [NO, I will not do your homework, look it up]
2. CR has stated that stolen ships could be yours in lawless space but will be destroyed/confiscated in UEE patrolled systems - UNLESS you pay for an ILLEGAL registration which could be more expensive than buying the ship.
3. Changes are inevitable as game development progresses.

Ok here are my two cents.

So I think the issue is really about progression. how do you start with a starter ship and go all the way to a cap ship? well, I think there should be two branches. Lawful and Unlawful.
If you are a lawful player you help the UEE out, or other groups, you make enough money, and at some point, the UEE says, "hey, you are a good guy, want an Idris? it will cost you _______ UEC" as long as you keep your standing with the UEE high enough you can buy an Idris if you have the time.
On the other hand, if you want to play outside the law you will run jobs for crime orgs or brokers. As you become more trusted they will help you out more, for the right price. Most of your money will be made by taking cargo and selling it to the brokers or selling ships to chop shops. Now if make enough money and meet the right people some of them may know a hacker that could change your transponder, for the right price. (that price is very close to the UEE price.)

This would give both lawful and unlawful ways to earn the big ships but would require both to work for it. just in different ways.

EXACTLY what CR has stated many times........ Well done @sum1

Knowing the facts about what CR has planned is good but DRAMA & BITCHING is so much more entertaining.
Pass the popcorn...... DS is reading & taking notes......


I really love your videos @Montoya Cheers.

 

[Thalstan]

Insurance fraud still needs to be addressed. Even without stealing a ship... I could take my own ship, strip it of weapons and components, and arrange an accident.... file for a replacement and voila! I have a new ship with all the stock components on it... and the components I took off the original.
So... let the game mechanics develop organically.. don't get bent about these initial attempts to deal with problems..... who knows what it will look like way down the development line?
In CR we trust, hallowed be his name.

This has already been thought of. Each component has its own serial number. When you take off the base equipment, that equipment will no longer spawn on the ship when you reclaim it from insurance. If you sold it, you will need to buy it back. If you lost it when you put it on another ship and did not have upgrade insurance on that other ship, well too bad for you.

So if you strip all those 337 repeaters off your starfarer to put on your super hornet, and put the S5 lasers on your Connie, you won’t be able to just get a new set of weapons just by crashing your starfarer and claiming it on insurance.

This is not implemented right now, but it is planned to be implemented soon. I suspect that once you can buy all components in game, CIG will implement this.

 

[Thalstan]

[WALL O' TEXT]

to prevent massive insurance fraud your victim would be flagged and lose coverage for any of her ships if she ever left civilised space in them


[/WALL O' TEXT]

First off, talk about blaming the victim. Second, it would kill SC. Insurance as a concept was implemented to give backers peace of mind when purchasing pixel starships. No matter what, so long as they kept up its their standard hull insurance (or had LTI), they would never lose their ship and base equipment. Removing that would be a substantial change.

If you take away insurance, the demands for refunds would be immense. It would probably drain any remaining capital CIG had and would most likely put them into bankruptcy. Even if people only refunded extra ships and left their base package auroras and stuff alone along with SQ42 package giving you $60/ citizen in funding, you are talking about over 57.5 million bucks in refunds. The lawsuits and lawyer fees would drain the rest. Yes, they might be able to survive by getting investors and maybe taking a partial buyout or allying themselves with a publisher, but those people will want a return on their investment and will stop CIG from pushing the bar and will force them to just publish a game. Forget most of the promised gameplay and immersion will be out the window, new tech being developed would be scrapped.

Duping has been a concern for MMOs for decades, The big fear is the ban hammer, losing all your ships, etc, so most players won’t be duping if they have an idris or a javelin, etc. they won’t want to risk it as the reward just won’t be there.

So, yeah, keeeping your stolen ships won’t be a thing, but insurance will be.

 

[Crymsan]

Regardless of game mechanics and fun this (no doubt this would depend on which side you fall) it just seems a revenue protection tool. Why buy a ship when you can steal one from a whale? Even so I suspect there will be some mechanics around eventually even if its pirate selling to a salvage yard. (Basically as scrap yards do today pedal "hot" stuff).

 

[Thalstan]

Regardless of game mechanics and fun this (no doubt this would depend on which side you fall) it just seems a revenue protection tool. Why buy a ship when you can steal one from a whale? Even so I suspect there will be some mechanics around eventually even if its pirate selling to a salvage yard. (Basically as scrap yards do today pedal "hot" stuff).

It has been mentioned that this would be allowed. You steal the ship, sell the cargo, and sell the hull for scrap. Stripping the components and weapons might also be a thing too, but we shall see. It might also be prevented for the same reasons...dupers.

 

[maynard]

First off, talk about blaming the victim. Second, it would kill SC. Insurance as a concept was implemented to give backers peace of mind when purchasing pixel starships. No matter what, so long as they kept up its their standard hull insurance (or had LTI), they would never lose their ship and base equipment. Removing that would be a substantial change.

If you take away insurance, the demands for refunds would be immense. It would probably drain any remaining capital CIG had and would most likely put them into bankruptcy. Even if people only refunded extra ships and left their base package auroras and stuff alone along with SQ42 package giving you $60/ citizen in funding, you are talking about over 57.5 million bucks in refunds. The lawsuits and lawyer fees would drain the rest. Yes, they might be able to survive by getting investors and maybe taking a partial buyout or allying themselves with a publisher, but those people will want a return on their investment and will stop CIG from pushing the bar and will force them to just publish a game. Forget most of the promised gameplay and immersion will be out the window, new tech being developed would be scrapped.

Duping has been a concern for MMOs for decades, The big fear is the ban hammer, losing all your ships, etc, so most players won’t be duping if they have an idris or a javelin, etc. they won’t want to risk it as the reward just won’t be there.

So, yeah, keeeping your stolen ships won’t be a thing, but insurance will be.

IRL if I total my car my insurance premium is going to go up

if I do it enough times my insurance company will refuse to sell me coverage

why is it unreasonable to refuse coverage to someone who gets their ship stolen in lawless space?

I'm not saying they should lose coverage in civilised space - maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

IRL if I total my car my insurance premium is going to go up

if I do it enough times my insurance company will refuse to sell me coverage

why is it unreasonable to refuse coverage to someone who gets their ship stolen in lawless space?

I'm not saying they should lose coverage in civilised space - maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough

But Maynard, we'll be 900 years in the future in the game - Humanity will have moved on, we'll be a decent race, an honest race, a race that has a No Claims Bonus, a race that can look at itself and say No Win No Fees and Ambulance Chasing died out in the Great Enlightenment of 2019... Yes, that soon!

I learn't a new word today: Delusion.

 

[maynard]

But Maynard, we'll be 900 years in the future in the game - Humanity will have moved on, we'll be a decent race, an honest race, a race that has a No Claims Bonus, a race that can look at itself and say No Win No Fees and Ambulance Chasing died out in the Great Enlightenment of 2019... Yes, that soon!
I learn't a new word today: Delusion.

I secretly hold the title to the Eiffel Tower

I could make you a deal on some prime Paris real estate, PM me if you're interested

 

[Thalstan]

If my car is totaled because someone else hits me, my premiums do not go up.

Second, an act of piracy will have real consequences in real life. If you get caught, it’s not a slap on the wrist and you can continue playing the game. No, you get caught you go to jail, you might even face a death penalty in real life depending on what you did. So, if you are saying insurance should not exist, are you will risk having a 2-5 year ban from the game for even attempting piracy/armed robbery and or assault with a deadly weapon, or be willing to accept a lifetime ban without the possibility of buying a new account for killing a character? If not then let’s not try and bring real life insurance/laws into this.

This is no longer a space sim. If you want a good space sim, go play KSP. This game is now a space opera mmo. As such, what needs to happen is great gameplay, not a great simulation. That means yes, immersion will suffer a bit. Lore will need to be created to allow the hand-waving that allows for a soft perma-death mechanic and for insurance on ships.

If I claim my ship a lot, my costs associated with that recovery will be greater. For instance, the time it takes to replace the ship goes up, the cost to expedite goes up. If I stop claiming my ship as much, those will go back down to normal.

Now, Insurance in general is a mechanic that is being used by CIG to assure people who buy ships with RL money that IF THE GAME GETS MADE, they won’t ever lose the ship they paid for. They may have to pay a but in UEC to get it back quickly (which varies by size what constitutes quickly), or they might have to wait a few hours or days to respawn big ships without the expedite fee. But this is one of the pillars they have based their marketing around.

But let’s go back to what I said early in the last paragraph. Those backers who paid RL money to back the game by buying ships or packages beyond the base starter package did so with the understanding the ships would not be lost in game because of something someone else did, or because you messed up somehow and crashed/ship exploded. Without the guarantee of insurance replacements, many backers...myself included, would have either bought a very small starter package, or, more likely, purchased the game after it was made as to limit the risk. While there might still be a whale or two, it would be very small in comparison to what we have today, I suspect funding would also be a small fraction of what has been pledged....maybe 50 mil. Overall, the game would be very different.

Finally, getting rid of insurance now would be worse than getting rid of piracy in all forms and PVP. We’ve already heard that CR does not want SC to be EVE 2.0 or Grand Theft Spaceship. So, let’s give things time to develop.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

So, let’s give things time to develop.

Well there is that.

The mechanics of the game could change a hundred and twenty times before we even get to Beta.

Just sit back, relax, hurry up and wait.

 

[Bambooza]

So I think the issue is really about progression. how do you start with a starter ship and go all the way to a cap ship? well, I think there should be two branches. Lawful and Unlawful.

I still do not see this concept of progression being in the game. Each ship serves a purpose with some being better at specific tasks over others and while the Hammerhead does upset the previous balance of Fighter/Bomber/Capital and make Capital only fleets far more practical there is still the concept of situational ship usage. While a Hull would be great for long haul bulk transport, there is the real possibility of smaller port hubs and planet side installations that can net a higher UEC per hour at a higher risk which a Hull C and above would not be able to be utilized and a Hull A/B would not have enough armaments to go at it alone. While something along the lines of a Constellation or Freelancer would be perfectly suited for. The same can be seen with in the context of the Prospector and Orion. While the Orion makes its profits from sitting in asteroid belts grinding up everything it can reach a Prospector could have the potential to be far more profitable in seeking out and recovering the rare minerals as well as not having to pay the higher overhead of protection and support. So while this does not leave out the possibility of progression from ship to ship, CIG developers have stated their plan progression is more focused on allowing players to customize their ships to maximize its ability and fit the players play style. Which is why I think with the last uprising over components and the comment about it might be better to replace military spec with civilian was overblown was due to this concept of ship progression instead of being able to step back and see the options given to us in picking components that fit the mission and play style.

So outside of the two true starter ships (Aurora and Mustang) every ship so far known has a unique purpose and hopefully that remains true past release.

and meet the right people some of them may know a hacker that could change your transponder, for the right price.

I do like this as it holds true to the Insurance FAQ as well as taking advantage of the mission system.

If you take away insurance, the demands for refunds would be immense.

While I am not sure it will be as dramatic as you painted its true that the insurance systems purpose is to allow players to make mistake and be more risky due to reducing the cost of the mistake. I have a feeling that they do not even know what the balance they want to achieve between typical FPS death is merely a score point on your KD ratio and a more sever perma death like Eve. As we go forward I am sure they will continue to tweek the variables associated with insurance as to the cost of the deductible, wait time and cost of expediting recovery. Its all meant to give death a meaning beyond resetting your current location. And beyond ship costs this is going to have the biggest impact on the longevity of the game.

 

[Printimus]

Wouldn't it be other people's cake? Your cake has insurance.

mebe....mebe not.....cake is cake.