Death of a Spaceman

[Thalstan]

Yeah, don’t see death of a spaceman happening if for one reason...

People get attached to their characters. If their toons die and they need to recreate it...even if they recreate it with the same face, hairstyle, and name...it’s not the same toon TO THEM...

This will mean that the game offers a lot of chances for the person to quit playing the game. Online games need to keep people playing and give them a reason to play “5 more minutes”. I need to get my body back, I need to see if that rare mob spawns, I want to see if that pirate lord comes out of hiding, etc.

Of someone wants to pivot their character, then allow them to do so...with REAL CHOICES, not a convient death. Yes, I am a pirate lord, but I’m tired of always trying to dodge bounty hunters, etc. So, to get on the right side of the law, I will need to start working my factions. Those that trusted me before will see what I am doing and start to treat me as a traitor long before I am trusted by the Empire. Eventually, I may become a true hero of the empire, but maybe because I was once a really notorious pirate that was max faction with my old pirate gang (9 tails for instance), they may never “fully” trust me meaning I can never achieve the highest level of empire faction. Likewise, I might never be able to reach my “pirate lord” faction with the 9 tails again after turning against them

For those that want to occasionally play the pirate, let them have an alt they can play that way...but if you use that alt as an NPC, you get all the bad rep that goes with it...same for a pirate that wants to play a law and order alt. If they use that alt for an NPC, Their pirate faction friends will think there is a NARC on board and try to kill the ship even though the main is onboard as well.

That said, killing off a character will frustrate people and put more people in a spot where they can rage quit because they feel they have nothing to lose.

 

[hardroc77]

or see it get old....

What if we already are old??

 

[hardroc77]

Actually this is an interesting idea. But I don't see it being seriously being discussed by the devs until at least a few years after release. Too much fine tuning of the game will be required after release and time used to track and "update" our character could be used for more important things. Now if our character that picks up after our tour in SQ42 is weathered and scarred to a level determined by our play in SQ42, that would be different. Nothing would be more suspicious then listen to a veteran telling his tall tales of his SQ42 days while looking as fresh as a recruit.

 

[Tealwraith]

Wait, I'm aiming for a profession where I have to care for geriatrics? I just wanted to hang around nurses and hand out drugs.

Seriously, though, my understanding is that the only thing you lose on death is a big chunk of faction. Unfortunately, in a game without levels, faction is one of the few things you can build. Losing faction would be erasing many hours of missions you went through. I'd be really pissed if I had max faction with Terra United Healthcare Inc. and suddenly that dropped to Known after untold hours of running faction missions for them. Pivot? Why not, who wants to run another 30 hours of missions to get back to where you were, for the fourth time. Maybe I should give up running an ambulance since I just keep getting ganked by pirates and having to start over again.

I remember dying and losing levels and every item on me in Everquest. This is a bad idea. Give players a choice at any time to retire their character and start a new one with everything except half the faction of the old pc. For the people who don't want to retire, start giving them cybernetic replacement parts until they are more machine than meat. Make people wait longer and longer to recover from res effects. Charge medical insurance premiums that go up as you get older or more damaged or whatever.

I don't like permadeath and I hope CIG doesn't implement this, it will suck for all but the most hardcore, PvP types.

 

[Xist]

I rather like the idea that, if someone really pisses me off, I can literally hunt him until he's permanently dead. And depending on how much of an asshole he is, I can do it again and again.

If people face this sort of retribution they may think twice about being truly hated by other players, which would be a refreshing change for a game IMO.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I rather like the idea that, if someone really pisses me off, I can literally hunt him until he's permanently dead. And depending on how much of an asshole he is, I can do it again and again.

If people face this sort of retribution they may think twice about being truly hated by other players, which would be a refreshing change for a game IMO.

This is what I think is behind DOASM. In an online MMO, you rarely feel the consequences.

You could "LEEEEEEROY JEEEEENKINS!" it into an enemy base and die in moments. Push F to respawn.
You join a Zerg Rush in your Nova Tonk and although you and your machine are obliterated you know the 300 other Tonks mean you're going to win that raid. Push F to respawn, and hey LTI.
You could ram your ship into a freighter, blowing it up and your Org mates could swoop in and pick up the goods. Push F to respawn.
But in SC? You choose to cut through a non UEE system to shave some time off getting to your destination and are taken out by pirated. Push F to pay respects at the funeral of your own character.

Orgs like Goon Swarm found a mechanic they could exploit as there was no major drawback behind that course of action (Ganking/suicide runs) and built an entire group around it. But there is no consequence quite so big as having to start over, especially if it is a time-sponge. If it takes 30 mins to create a new avatar and go through the tutorial all over again, making your way in the game by dying will become a big waste of time, and like in AC the timer could get longer the more deaths you have if they are viewed as intentional (remember the well deaths epidemic when missiles refreshed on respawn?) - start off just making a new character, then next time its remaking the character and doing the tutorial, then next time its also attending the old ones funeral, then next time also being called into The Advocacy as there have been a lot of deaths in the family recently and they are worried about your personal safety... all unskippable... If it eventually ends up taking 2 hours to make a new dude because you perma-died too often, well, it's just not viable. And if you perma-died every one of those times doing things that were not actually intentionally dieing, it might just convince you not to do those things. Don't fly through Cathcard, you'll die. Don't eat the expired Benny's, you'll die. Don't Gank, you'll die...

...It could work...

...there are issues with it of course. If accepting the consequences of your actions is a thing, what if some bored twelve-year-old decides they are going to quit SC so in their last action in the game they choose to go postal at ArcCorp and perma-death twenty players...? Customer Services would be buried in requests for 1up's.

 

[maynard]

...And depending on how much of an asshole he is I am, I can do it again and again...

FTFY

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

balanced through testing and community feedback.

I personally do not like relying on "Community feedback" when it comes to difficulty in a game. You have a loud minority that will always push for things to be easier or to play to their complete advantage. It's a big reason why these large AAA games that have been coming out have felt so bland and have been basically forgotten quicker than anticipated. "We listened to the community" means they tried to appease as large of a population as possible, to bring in as much money as possible. Understandable, yes, but it doesn't always provide the best results for people who are vested in the game. Mass Effect for example, played on the notion that everyone wanted a giant open non-linear world because of behemoths like Fallout and The Elder Scrolls instead of recognizing what truly made Mass Effect great. A lot of great games are made behind closed doors with minimal community feedback. Kingdom Come Deliverance, The Witcher, Divinity Original Sin, Fallout, and Skyrim for example. Yes they had some community feedback but it was minimal. I'm not saying community feedback through a games development is more damaging than not, just that it needs to stay in small doses and stay away from aspects of a game that are supposed to present a unique and challenging difficulty.

 

[Xist]

FTFY

What you're saying is you're afraid people will abuse the system. That's a legitimate concern (tm).

We can only hope that this, and other mechanics, will be balanced such that their use aligns with their intent.

So far CIG has done a good job IMO of making changes along those lines - implementations are tried and modified until the original intent is mostly satisfied. I hope that will continue.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

In Science Fiction there is a mechanic, and in real life there is a potential mechanic, whereby you can actually achieve something approaching immortality. The process involves digitizing the mind, and transferring it to a clone upon your death.

Every Christian is now cringing in horror. Get over it.

I'm a Christian and not cringing at all. This whole concept is explored in detail in the wonderful series Dark Matter. This is just a game, so why cringe? The philosophical question of course, is whether all we are is the summation of our memories. That makes a nice plot device, but I think you would have a hard time making a logical argument in support. I think you would need to champion the notion that we are all predetermined by outside circumstance and therefore victims. Personally I don't put much stock in such stuff. We can choose to be victims or not, as any real survivor will attest. The world is full of people who have been dumped on terribly in life and yet rise above their circumstances, and even one such example puts the lie to the whole victim mentality argument, IMHO.

 

[Vavrik]

I'm a Christian and not cringing at all. This whole concept is explored in detail in the wonderful series Dark Matter. This is just a game, so why cringe? The philosophical question of course, is whether all we are is the summation of our memories. That makes a nice plot device, but I think you would have a hard time making a logical argument in support. I think you would need to champion the notion that we are all predetermined by outside circumstance and therefore victims. Personally I don't put much stock in such stuff. We can choose to be victims or not, as any real survivor will attest. The world is full of people who have been dumped on terribly in life and yet rise above their circumstances, and even one such example puts the lie to the whole victim mentality argument, IMHO.

So thank you, I was feeling a little overly sensitive because I have a B.Th (a Bachelor's in Theology), as well as a B.Sc. (BS in the US... idk that's what the call it). Anyway, the philosophical issue is something we basically agree on. It's not just memories, even from a scientific standpoint that's more or less a serious understatement. I suppose I was mostly pointing out that they could use that mechanic in the game. By the way, you presented a healthy world view there.

 

[Bambooza]

It is an interesting concept even if we as a self proclaimed enlightened species seem to struggle with the basic concept.

 

[hardroc77]

So thank you, I was feeling a little overly sensitive because I have a B.Th (a Bachelor's in Theology), as well as a B.Sc. (BS in the US... idk that's what the call it). Anyway, the philosophical issue is something we basically agree on. It's not just memories, even from a scientific standpoint that's more or less a serious understatement. I suppose I was mostly pointing out that they could use that mechanic in the game. By the way, you presented a healthy world view there.

 

[hardroc77]

And depending on how much of an asshole he is, I can do it again and again.

Best to do it on Feb 2nd.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

View: https://youtu.be/KC7wkBZ2ctI