This is why Killboards matter

[Overlord]

I know, I know....I heard it all before; Killboards can be manipulated and do not reflect piloting skills so why bother? Sure Killboards can be manipulated, almost anything can be manipulated - after all, most of us had to manipulate our spouses into supporting a 66 million dollar ship porn industry. If you can do that you can do anything!

But manipulation aside, Killboards do reflect overall competency in piloting skills because it shows how many hours people actually put into combat. Sure you can jump on Battle Royal with corp mates and stack the deck but that is missing the point. The point is survival and if you can put in the hours it adds to your abilities as a combat pilot. Besides, if you can jump on with your corp mates then so be it - we should take advantage of it because other corps will; and whatever we bring to the table in the Killboard will be a big part of the PU as well.

Also a Killboard is a great recruiting tool! In fact, one of the reasons I joined TEST, other than the possibility of getting on Montoya's Phoenix with beautiful, skimpily dressed babes gyrating to music, is because TEST consistently places higher overall than any other corp. That shows that TEST is active and serious. So many corps say they want to rule the PU and dominate adversaries but without combat experience this is just a pipe-dream. And I'm not talking about private matches because private matches, although great to improve certain skills and build teamwork, does not have the same chaotic, unpredictable combat that will dominate the PU.

Personally I would love to see the top 100 and especially the top 10 recognized in some way for their valiant efforts on the field. I don't know what form that recognition could be but perhaps a hornet giveaway for coming in first place for a certain period of time - I mean people give ships away all the time for watching streams! Anyway, I just thought I would throw this out there because I have a great deal of respect for those who are helping make a name for TEST. And I think they deserve something for their efforts. And just think, imagine if TEST filled the top 3 spots on the Killboard. Now that would be a site!

As for those who are not into combat at the public level I say, fine. The PU will certainly be big enough for all kinds of gameplay and I myself will be flying my Carrack to my hearts content. Besides, we are not competing with one another but with the other guilds and a dynamic, multifaceted corp will win the day. We cannot rule the PU simply with combat and that's as it should be.

 

[CrashMan054]

You want to know what stat really matters? None of them. KDR can be high, but that might mean that player doesn't do shit and waits to steal kills, then runs away. Number of hours/kills really doesn't gauge anything except how much of a life someone has. Sure, a player with 300 hours might beat a player with 3, but there's not guarantee that the player with 3 hours hasn't played other games of that type. And giving away a ship or other special recognition just because someone's played your game obsessively? That would basically alienate everyone like me, who can only play 1 or 2 hours a day.

Really, the only true judge of skill is to watch someone play(or play against them).

 

[Overlord]

You want to know what stat really matters? None of them. KDR can be high, but that might mean that player doesn't do shit and waits to steal kills, then runs away. Number of hours/kills really doesn't gauge anything except how much of a life someone has. Sure, a player with 300 hours might beat a player with 3, but there's not guarantee that the player with 3 hours hasn't played other games of that type. And giving away a ship or other special recognition just because someone's played your game obsessively? That would basically alienate everyone like me, who can only play 1 or 2 hours a day.

Really, the only true judge of skill is to watch someone play(or play against them).

You are talking about legitimate strategy. Why not kill a ship that is going down? You really think that there are going to be such niceties in the PU? And damn, 1 or 2 hours a day? Not bad!

 

[CrashMan054]

You are talking about legitimate strategy. Why not kill a ship that is going down? You really think that there are going to be such niceties in the PU? And damn, 1 or 2 hours a day? Not bad!

I'm not saying it's possible not to kill steal, but it is a problem in any DM game. If you're with your buddies, as long as the ship goes down, it doesn't really matter who fires the final shot. Most MMOs have EXP sharing based on this, but SC doesn't look like an EXP type game.

 

[Huegpaynis]

For the record, we do not teamstack in battle royale; that's a shitty thing to do and it is actively discouraged.

 

[Overlord]

I'm not saying it's possible not to kill steal, but it is a problem in any DM game. If you're with your buddies, as long as the ship goes down, it doesn't really matter who fires the final shot. Most MMOs have EXP sharing based on this, but SC doesn't look like an EXP type game.

I look at it differently. What I see is the Corp logo in the top 10 and for me I really don't care how it gets there. If friends want to team up, dominate, kill steal or whatever it takes, then I am all for it. Besides, it really isn't about me or how I do but how the corp does - and I can say this because I rank 179 on the K/B and have very little chance of reaching the top 10 given my age and tendency to ram everything in site. So if I can support the corp without any direct benefit to me or my stats then fine. Like I said, we can't rule the PU only with combat; we need a variety of skills and talent, besides ramming hopefully.

 

[Huegpaynis]

What I see is the Corp logo in the top 10 and for me I really don't care how it gets there.

You should; our reputation can and has been damaged by this kind of behavior.

 

[CrashMan054]

Sounds like someone's been hanging around EVE a bit too long. Arbitrary stats shouldn't be a concern to us, what we should be concerned about is what our reputation in the 'verse is and what our internal community is like.

 

[Overlord]

Sounds like someone's been hanging around EVE a bit too long. Arbitrary stats shouldn't be a concern to us, what we should be concerned about is what our reputation in the 'verse is and what our internal community is like.

As long as people don't hack or manipulate files I'm fine with what goes down in Arena Commander or the PU. And what reputation do you speak of? Getting our asses handed to us because we are worried about our reputation? The only reputation we will earn is being way in over our heads. As for EVE, I have a great deal of respect for EVE players and for what they bring to the table - I look forward to their participation!

 

[CrashMan054]

As long as people don't hack or manipulate files I'm fine with what goes down in Arena Commander or the PU. And what reputation do you speak of? Getting our asses handed to us because we are worried about our reputation? The only reputation we will earn is being way in over our heads. As for EVE, I have a great deal of respect for EVE players and for what they bring to the table - I look forward to their participation!

Overlord, we're TEST. We're not one of those hyper serious orgs that will do nothing to win. If anything, it's those orgs that'll have problems, as they'll have to be ruthless and piss people off to top killboards. There's a reason great games like TF2 don't track KDR: it doesn't matter. Being assholes and camping entry points or suiciding might let us win, but it'll have long lasting consequences regarding how we're viewed by other orgs.

I'm not knocking EVE players, I'm saying that the atmosphere of the community is that which you seem to embrace: victory over everything. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Huegpaynis]

As long as people don't hack or manipulate files I'm fine with what goes down in Arena Commander or the PU. And what reputation do you speak of? Getting our asses handed to us because we are worried about our reputation? The only reputation we will earn is being way in over our heads. As for EVE, I have a great deal of respect for EVE players and for what they bring to the table - I look forward to their participation!

You are being woefully shortsighted if you think that topping leaderboards in arena commander will translate to success in the pu. There is a time and place for combat skill and ac is a great way to get that skill, but we are going to have to interact with other entities in non-combat roles as well, and being known for being assholes in the alpha phases is not going to lend itself to a successful run in the pu. Test isn't about winning no matter the cost. Test is about having fun and maybe blowing stuff up while we do it.

 

[AntiSqueaker]

Killboards were cancer in EVE. I used to mainly play EWAR and Logi cruisers. I had to switch from actually useful drones (Neut, Web, Logi, Tracking Disruptor, you name it) for light combat drones because I "wasn't pushing my weight".

Because instead of shooting enemies, I was repping up our guys in a Basalisk.

Let's not judge people by KDR in this game too, its a useless stat in a game that some people don't even want to be combat pilots in. KDR is only mildly useful in FPS games, and even then it is abused so people can lord it over others "under them".

 

[CrashMan054]

Winning at any cost will only cause us to lose in the long run. It may seem nice to win a few battles at first, but when an alliance is formed to take us down because we're being assholes, all that "winning" won't have accomplished anything.

 

[kiltedfrog]

QSR is a perfect example of what we don't want to be. EVERYONE who plays battle royale runs into these douchenuggets. They team up 4, 5, 6, deep sometimes in games. Great, they're skewing their stats so they look good on the leader boards, individually they are still pretty mediocre at best. Also EVERYONE hates those fuckers now. They are on my permanent shit list, from now into the PU and beyond.

 

[Aurinian]

Not to mention that at the moment, kills are completely non-indicative of a players skill. I usually play squadron battle, and while I usually place 1st or 2nd in total points due to damage caused to the enemy, my K/D ratio is rarely above 1:1. Meanwhile, there will usually be someone with a better K/D ratio below me or just right above me because they play the system to kill an already weakened opponent. Jump in a match and check how many 6 omnski hornets converge on a damaged opponent at the drop of a hat.

 

[Overlord]

Overlord, we're TEST. We're not one of those hyper serious orgs that will do nothing to win. If anything, it's those orgs that'll have problems, as they'll have to be ruthless and piss people off to top killboards. There's a reason great games like TF2 don't track KDR: it doesn't matter. Being assholes and camping entry points or suiciding might let us win, but it'll have long lasting consequences regarding how we're viewed by other orgs.

I'm not knocking EVE players, I'm saying that the atmosphere of the community is that which you seem to embrace: victory over everything. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me follow up your question with another questions. Lets look at this theoretically since SC game mechanics aren't finalized as yet. Say for some reason that we are able to camp an entry point despite CIG's best efforts to avoid this and your entire system depends on camping that entry point - or maybe 2 or 3. So you are going to say 'no, we don't do that' and let your systems fall because you think it is an 'asshole' thing to do? Really?Personally I don't like camping gates all that much - boring as hell but I did it to support the corp. And I absolutely refused to suicide people because I don't like it. But I also don't like having my ship blown up so did what I needed to do to keep it from being kamikaze -ed > I embraced the challenge and actually lost very few ships.

But I can see this post is straying from the subject into a whole new thing. So I will make this my last post and simply say we have to utilize whatever mechanics - even gate camps should they exist - if we are going to be taken seriously in the PU; expecting others to be gentlemen in the PU is a huge mistake of gigantic proportions. If you want to play with the big boys you have to play big boy rules. Now if you care more about the reputation of your corp than its abilities to survive in the PU, then sure - lets avoid legitimate tactics, even at the cost of territory. As for promoting Killboard stats, I think the more we have on the Killboard the better - and if you don't care about the Killboard, fine. But support those that do as they will eventually be instrumental in supporting Industry, Trade and a whole host of other activities. Normally, I would be happy to fly with anyone but sometimes we are going to be at war and needing damn fine pilots > so I have to ask, who are you going to trust to escort your goods from a to b? Someone with 2 hours of Arena Commander or someone with 200 hours? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

 

[Overlord]

QSR is a perfect example of what we don't want to be. EVERYONE who plays battle royale runs into these douchenuggets. They team up 4, 5, 6, deep sometimes in games. Great, they're skewing their stats so they look good on the leader boards, individually they are still pretty mediocre at best. Also EVERYONE hates those fuckers now. They are on my permanent shit list, from now into the PU and beyond.

So hate them. Awesome! But AC is still a great way to learn how to fly combat. And we have members who are way up there on the Killboard; I guarantee you the competition are saying the exact same things about TEST. We shouldn't be discouraging people to participate in Arena Commander - we should be encouraging them. To do otherwise is folly.

 

[CrashMan054]

Let me follow up your question with another questions. Lets look at this theoretically since SC game mechanics aren't finalized as yet. Say for some reason that we are able to camp an entry point despite CIG's best efforts to avoid this and your entire system depends on camping that entry point - or maybe 2 or 3. So you are going to say 'no, we don't do that' and let your systems fall because you think it is an 'asshole' thing to do? Really?Personally I don't like camping gates all that much - boring as hell but I did it to support the corp. And I absolutely refused to suicide people because I don't like it. But I also don't like having my ship blown up so did what I needed to do to keep it from being kamikaze -ed > I embraced the challenge and actually lost very few ships.

But I can see this post is straying from the subject into a whole new thing. So I will make this my last post and simply say we have to utilize whatever mechanics - even gate camps should they exist - if we are going to be taken seriously in the PU; expecting others to be gentlemen in the PU is a huge mistake of gigantic proportions. If you want to play with the big boys you have to play big boy rules. Now if you care more about the reputation of your corp than its abilities to survive in the PU, then sure - lets avoid legitimate tactics, even at the cost of territory. As for promoting Killboard stats, I think the more we have on the Killboard the better - and if you don't care about the Killboard, fine. But support those that do as they will eventually be instrumental in supporting Industry, Trade and a whole host of other activities. Normally, I would be happy to fly with anyone but sometimes we are going to be at war and needing damn fine pilots > so I have to ask, who are you going to trust to escort your goods from a to b? Someone with 2 hours of Arena Commander or someone with 200 hours? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Honestly, this post raises questions as to whether you actually read what anyone has said here. I'm tired of repeating myself, it doesn't really matter that much ATM as the PU launch is likely going to be another 2 years at least. CIG has said specifically that they're going to try and discourage this sort of "bullshit tactics just to win" sort of playstyle.

Just saw a new post. Again, it doesn't even appear you're reading what was written here.

 

[kiltedfrog]

So hate them. Awesome! But AC is still a great way to learn how to fly combat. And we have members who are way up there on the Killboard; I guarantee you the competition are saying the exact same things about TEST. We shouldn't be discouraging people to participate in Arena Commander - we should be encouraging them. To do otherwise is folly.

I am in the top 25 of the killboards/leaderboards, I don't do this teaming up bullshit in BR. I do it through skill and persistence. I don't think anyone thinks I'm an asshole for being good at the game in solo, team, objective and co-op play. Search my RSI handle Grimm_starfish and see where I stand if you want. I in no way want to discourage people from playing Arena Commander, in fact quite a few people will tell you I'm a huge proponent of getting people in there and teaching them to be effective and skilled pilots without having to abuse the leaderboards and ruining the fun for others.

I'm telling you overlord the kind of behavior you're advocating is not something we want to promote, and if that kind of behavior is to become the standard behavior for TEST I will leave. I'm all for TEST having the top 3 slots at some point, but only so long as we didn't get there gaming the system and ruining the fun of the other players. If you really want to go about your Star Citizen career that worried about your place on the leaderboards, maybe TEST isn't for you. Lets be clear on 2 things, first TEST in SC isn't TEST in EVE. There may be some members in common, but it isn't the same org. Second, Star Citizen isn't EVE.

 

[Overlord]

I am in the top 25 of the killboards/leaderboards, I don't do this teaming up bullshit in BR. I do it through skill and persistence. I don't think anyone thinks I'm an asshole for being good at the game in solo, team, objective and co-op play. Search my RSI handle Grimm_starfish and see where I stand if you want. I in no way want to discourage people from playing Arena Commander, in fact quite a few people will tell you I'm a huge proponent of getting people in there and teaching them to be effective and skilled pilots without having to abuse the leaderboards and ruining the fun for others.

I'm telling you overlord the kind of behavior you're advocating is not something we want to promote, and if that kind of behavior is to become the standard behavior for TEST I will leave. I'm all for TEST having the top 3 slots at some point, but only so long as we didn't get there gaming the system and ruining the fun of the other players. If you really want to go about your Star Citizen career that worried about your place on the leaderboards, maybe TEST isn't for you. Lets be clear on 2 things, first TEST in SC isn't TEST in EVE. There may be some members in common, but it isn't the same org. Second, Star Citizen isn't EVE.

Perhaps you need to calm down. I really don't see your point. I am not assuming you are an asshole because you solo AC. In fact I applaud it! I simply believe the time you put into AC is beneficial for both pilot and corp. I myself solo it a lot more often than playing with fellow TESTies. But I have no problem playing by big boys rules when needed. In fact, when pilots gang up on me I chuck it up as experience and learn how to fly - FAST! In fact it is a great experience because the PU will have roving gangs, so you better get use to it.

As for TEST or Star Citizen not being EVE, that is kind of a nonsensical argument as EVE is one of many space MMOs out there of which I played most. But if you think that EVE players are not coming to Star Citizen you have another thing coming. And if you think you can play a PU based on old school we are so polite tactics against players with years of hardened PU experience and expect to come out on top? Then, again, you are gravely mistaken.

We are all going to have to adjust and learn as we go; to immediately say we are not going to do this or that for game mechanics that hasn't even been finalized is, well, short sighted. And no one is forcing anyone to participate in AC! But to say it is all nonsense and a waste of time is not only doing TEST a disservice but Star Citizen as well. We should be encouraging everyone to participate in AC - not dissuade them! As for your threats of leaving for my opinions and apparent animosity towards open debate, all I can say is I would hate to see you leave. Personally I think ultimatums are unproductive. Moreover they are only opinions and nothing more. If the corp sees your logic wining the day than fine - and if the corp sees my opinions wining the day even better. lol. But I don't see that happening and I am fine following the herd. But I certainly am not going to give ultimatums to anyone for their opinions.