[Better video] How is this P2W?
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
NO YOU FOOL!
If you really give him all your ships, then he has REALLY won Star Citizen!
:anguished:
It is a big problem IMHO and I do not like it, as originally the game was not "pay to win" as you may be able to buy all the ginormous ships you want but you wouldn't be able to afford to run any of them with your 5000 UEC starting credit, so you would have to play the game properly, like everyone else.
This reverses that decision - now you can buy all the huge ships you want, and then buy all the in game currency you want, and then when you start off and everyone else is trying to make their way in an aurora you can be spending a billion UEC per day and laughing it up about how you "won" at non real life.
And the economy as mentioned will be impossible to balance when you have millions of poor players who can't run 1000uec together and thousands of millionaires/billionaires rolling around destabilising the economy wherever they go.
It's given the "waaa pay to win" whiners actual ammo because now it is actually pay to win. If you don't consider being able to buy unlimited in game currency with cash, pay to win, then you are living in a dream world. Yes you can argue that you can't "win" mmos like this but you can still pay to win a 1v1, a 4v4, a great battle, a huge war, you can excert total dominance over thousands of other players around you just because you decided to get your credit card out and pay to win.
I am a bit sad. I don't like the way things are going since 3.0. Some of these decisions make NO sense at all, to me.
This reverses that decision - now you can buy all the huge ships you want, and then buy all the in game currency you want, and then when you start off and everyone else is trying to make their way in an aurora you can be spending a billion UEC per day and laughing it up about how you "won" at non real life.
And the economy as mentioned will be impossible to balance when you have millions of poor players who can't run 1000uec together and thousands of millionaires/billionaires rolling around destabilising the economy wherever they go.
It's given the "waaa pay to win" whiners actual ammo because now it is actually pay to win. If you don't consider being able to buy unlimited in game currency with cash, pay to win, then you are living in a dream world. Yes you can argue that you can't "win" mmos like this but you can still pay to win a 1v1, a 4v4, a great battle, a huge war, you can excert total dominance over thousands of other players around you just because you decided to get your credit card out and pay to win.
I am a bit sad. I don't like the way things are going since 3.0. Some of these decisions make NO sense at all, to me.
[WALL O' TEXT]
There will always be a segment of the gaming population who asks, "Why can't I buy my way out of grinding for in-game money?"
In the first large-scale MMO, WOW, that demand created a market where some who played only to 'farm' Gold sold their in-game 'earnings' for RL cash to those that wanted to avoid the grind.
The effect on WOW's economy was hugely inflationary. The cost of in-demand items rose beyond the reach of ordinary players, who then left the game angry.
Gaming companies have tried different strategies to meet the demand for in-game currency while retaining control of their in-game economies. Some tried to replace the black market with their own exchanges, but that created a bigger problem. Where RL money and in-game currencies were freely interchangeable people discovered they could use in-game currency for goods and services that are illegal in the RL economy. This created an unacceptable liability for the gaming companies so that scheme was quickly abandoned.
The most workable plan so far has been developed by Eve Online. The company sells tokens with floating value in-game for a fixed RL price (and vigorously goes after RL sellers of in-game currency.) Speculators can play the market for tokens as demand rises and falls without affecting the price of other in-game items, whose prices are also totally player-driven.
Unlike Eve Online, Chris Roberts wants an economy where players can't exploit other players by cornering any one segment of the market. How CIG will keep the in-game economy affordable for casual players while meeting RL demand for UEE Credits remains to be seen.
However they manage SC's economy, experience shows us that CIG has no choice but to keep selling UEE Credits for RL money. The naive purists who cry, "No pay to win!" are fighting a battle they can't win.
[/WALL O' TEXT]
There will always be a segment of the gaming population who asks, "Why can't I buy my way out of grinding for in-game money?"
In the first large-scale MMO, WOW, that demand created a market where some who played only to 'farm' Gold sold their in-game 'earnings' for RL cash to those that wanted to avoid the grind.
The effect on WOW's economy was hugely inflationary. The cost of in-demand items rose beyond the reach of ordinary players, who then left the game angry.
Gaming companies have tried different strategies to meet the demand for in-game currency while retaining control of their in-game economies. Some tried to replace the black market with their own exchanges, but that created a bigger problem. Where RL money and in-game currencies were freely interchangeable people discovered they could use in-game currency for goods and services that are illegal in the RL economy. This created an unacceptable liability for the gaming companies so that scheme was quickly abandoned.
The most workable plan so far has been developed by Eve Online. The company sells tokens with floating value in-game for a fixed RL price (and vigorously goes after RL sellers of in-game currency.) Speculators can play the market for tokens as demand rises and falls without affecting the price of other in-game items, whose prices are also totally player-driven.
Unlike Eve Online, Chris Roberts wants an economy where players can't exploit other players by cornering any one segment of the market. How CIG will keep the in-game economy affordable for casual players while meeting RL demand for UEE Credits remains to be seen.
However they manage SC's economy, experience shows us that CIG has no choice but to keep selling UEE Credits for RL money. The naive purists who cry, "No pay to win!" are fighting a battle they can't win.
[/WALL O' TEXT]
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Okay so I'll bite. What are you talking about here, something like cyber-prostitution? What sort of goods come from a game world to the real world?
Fascinating take, BTW. I would never have thought WoW the first large scale MMO, so I checked out the numbers for Everquest and WoW and indeed, there is a big difference there!
More like using in-game currency as the medium of exchange for real world goods
I am not a licensed firearms dealer so I can't legally sell you a gun, but I can 'give' you one. You can 'give' me some in-game currency in a totally 'unrelated' transaction. Then I can sell my in-game currency for RL cash. Whoever operates the market for converting cash to in-game currency and back is liable for facilitating an illegal transaction if the authorities can connect all the dots.
edit:
Gambling is probably a better example. We can legally engage in 'virtual' gambling where RL gambling is illegal. But what happens when I can convert my 'virtual' winnings to RL cash on an exchange?
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SoloFlyer
Grand Admiral
so if i'm following correctly, its the digital equivalent of what they do in japan with those pachinko prizes i guess? they can't give out cash but they give you an item that you can go around the corner and sell for cash or something?
@maynard hit the nail on the head. Governments and banks freak out any time there is a way for players to exchange virtual goods for actual money because it enables illegal activities. That the vast majority of uses are legitimate is of no concern to them. They are concerned only with the criminals.
I'm not quite sure how Eve and WOW get around this. (WOW has a very similar system now in place, designed to reduce/eliminate the Gold Farmers from the game). I imagine that it's because they WILL NOT buy back currency, and it's explicitly against their terms and conditions to do so, and if/when they notice people making RL transactions like this, they perma-ban the accounts. That may be enough to comply with federal regulations.
This being said, I'm not sure it's actually useful to sell an intermediate token rather than the actual currency. Both Eve and WOW did choose to do that, and perhaps in the future that's the direction SC will take. But again I'm not sure how that is really useful. The price doesn't fluctuate very much, and certainly never enough to stop someone from getting however much in game currency they really want. It just means it costs them more or less fiat money to get it from time to time.
I'm not quite sure how Eve and WOW get around this. (WOW has a very similar system now in place, designed to reduce/eliminate the Gold Farmers from the game). I imagine that it's because they WILL NOT buy back currency, and it's explicitly against their terms and conditions to do so, and if/when they notice people making RL transactions like this, they perma-ban the accounts. That may be enough to comply with federal regulations.
This being said, I'm not sure it's actually useful to sell an intermediate token rather than the actual currency. Both Eve and WOW did choose to do that, and perhaps in the future that's the direction SC will take. But again I'm not sure how that is really useful. The price doesn't fluctuate very much, and certainly never enough to stop someone from getting however much in game currency they really want. It just means it costs them more or less fiat money to get it from time to time.
We still don't even know if they plan on continuing the sell of UEC after the game goes beta. We know that ship sales will stop at some point in the future.
I'm pretty sure I recall them saying they plan to allow UEC sales into the future. That is how they plan to pay for ongoing operational costs.
I think removing the cap was a bad move. Sure, sell currency. But removing the starting limitations will facilitate the following - with the limit imposed people with big ships had to accrue wealth (or buy it) in a staggered manner. That prevented the day one Javelins and whatnot. Now - there will be day one big ships everywhere. Which is sort of.. stupid in my opinion. And before you say "But they need a crew for those" - they can buy the crew now. Hire a whole bunch of NPCs, keep investing real money for UEC and pay those crew members with it. With the cap in place people couldn't do that. Now they can. The cap should have stayed for awhile after launch. They can still implement a limit on how much funds are actually available to you at the start of the game no matter how much you bought, but I am pretty certain the entitled will whine their asses off and have that cap removed too.
Also - while certainly not pay to win, you CAN gain an advantage over others. I read a statement by CIG that says you can buy gold in WoW and so it's OK for them to do it and not have a cap. Sure, you can, but you can't have top end raiding or PvP gear bought with gold. You need to play the game to get those items. Sure you can buy bits and bobs off the auction house, but that isn't top of the line stuff. Now, go to lower levels where you CAN buy gear, and good gear at that, with money and we have "Twinks" that dominate PvP and PvE (or at least it used to be so) - rich players who outfit their character with the best gear and enchants off the auction house and wreck all in their path.
The same thing can happen in SC - you can get the best components for your ship right away now. The best cooler, the best weapons, the best shields and whatnot. And even if each of those does not give a significant advantage on its own, combined they WILL make a difference, especially with fighter craft. The cap prevented people from doing that. Now there is nothing to stop them. It will have an affect on trading too. People with big ships, fully crewed and outfitted from day one starting to trade and influence the economy. In what ways I cannot say but there will be consequences since it's player driven.
CIGs statement on the matter also comes off a bit dismissive and arrogant which doesn't help. I'm paraphrasing them here "People will complain about anything on the internet" while undoubtedly true, does NOT mean that you should dismiss those peoples complaints and sweep them under a rug. Those are the people that paid for this game to be made. CIG, and a lot of players who are willing to just shut up and take it or outright shut down attempts at criticism, seem to forget that.
Chris Roberts gets to make this because WE gave him the money to do so. His ass would have been bossed around by a publisher were it not for us. So for them to be so, well, arrogant is rather annoying. If people want to voice their concerns they by all means should. And CIG should listen and not go "Shut up, you don't know anything". Yes, even to the haters. There can be valuable feedback in all manners of criticism. But CIG seems to be getting overly sensitive to it. And the reason they should listen is because the games survival, even after completion, will depend on the players. And players are fickle creatures... And given how niche this genre actually is they should be at their best behaviour in order to attract and KEEP players and entice them to stay. We've seen on multiple occasions what happens when a company starts to act all arrogant and all knowing and the people that supported it decide to voice their discontent with their wallets. So... these guys should listen to all feedback, no matter how bad or good, and extrapolate ways to improve their product rather then dismiss, lest they find themselves with empty servers and no ways to pay the bills (and I am using hyperbole here but it is a possible outcome not unheard of or unseen).
P.S: Yes, I do know you can use gold in WoW to pay guilds to run you through raids while you twiddle your thumbs and get gear, but there is no guarantee that you WILL get the gear you want. In SC you can go to the store and buy the components without needing any help. The most help you would need, at least the way I see it, is to have someone give you a ride there if there is no way to get to the destination with NPC transport. Then, after you have arrived summon your ship and install the components.
Also - while certainly not pay to win, you CAN gain an advantage over others. I read a statement by CIG that says you can buy gold in WoW and so it's OK for them to do it and not have a cap. Sure, you can, but you can't have top end raiding or PvP gear bought with gold. You need to play the game to get those items. Sure you can buy bits and bobs off the auction house, but that isn't top of the line stuff. Now, go to lower levels where you CAN buy gear, and good gear at that, with money and we have "Twinks" that dominate PvP and PvE (or at least it used to be so) - rich players who outfit their character with the best gear and enchants off the auction house and wreck all in their path.
The same thing can happen in SC - you can get the best components for your ship right away now. The best cooler, the best weapons, the best shields and whatnot. And even if each of those does not give a significant advantage on its own, combined they WILL make a difference, especially with fighter craft. The cap prevented people from doing that. Now there is nothing to stop them. It will have an affect on trading too. People with big ships, fully crewed and outfitted from day one starting to trade and influence the economy. In what ways I cannot say but there will be consequences since it's player driven.
CIGs statement on the matter also comes off a bit dismissive and arrogant which doesn't help. I'm paraphrasing them here "People will complain about anything on the internet" while undoubtedly true, does NOT mean that you should dismiss those peoples complaints and sweep them under a rug. Those are the people that paid for this game to be made. CIG, and a lot of players who are willing to just shut up and take it or outright shut down attempts at criticism, seem to forget that.
Chris Roberts gets to make this because WE gave him the money to do so. His ass would have been bossed around by a publisher were it not for us. So for them to be so, well, arrogant is rather annoying. If people want to voice their concerns they by all means should. And CIG should listen and not go "Shut up, you don't know anything". Yes, even to the haters. There can be valuable feedback in all manners of criticism. But CIG seems to be getting overly sensitive to it. And the reason they should listen is because the games survival, even after completion, will depend on the players. And players are fickle creatures... And given how niche this genre actually is they should be at their best behaviour in order to attract and KEEP players and entice them to stay. We've seen on multiple occasions what happens when a company starts to act all arrogant and all knowing and the people that supported it decide to voice their discontent with their wallets. So... these guys should listen to all feedback, no matter how bad or good, and extrapolate ways to improve their product rather then dismiss, lest they find themselves with empty servers and no ways to pay the bills (and I am using hyperbole here but it is a possible outcome not unheard of or unseen).
P.S: Yes, I do know you can use gold in WoW to pay guilds to run you through raids while you twiddle your thumbs and get gear, but there is no guarantee that you WILL get the gear you want. In SC you can go to the store and buy the components without needing any help. The most help you would need, at least the way I see it, is to have someone give you a ride there if there is no way to get to the destination with NPC transport. Then, after you have arrived summon your ship and install the components.
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Isildor
Commander
Arcturus, I agree with the argument that you can not buy end tier stuff with money, and given the way CIG opened this door now, you I do hope they thought about that.
It is either P2P or P2W. Those are your choices folks. It is naive to think that you can have a game to play without a monthly subscription or other means of continued funding and still expect it to come up with new and interesting content. There has to be an economical reason for the game exist.
Hell, WOW right now is P2P and P2W. I don't see the throngs of slavering masses waving torches and pitchforks about it.
Hell, WOW right now is P2P and P2W. I don't see the throngs of slavering masses waving torches and pitchforks about it.
This argument is weak. While I am sure there are some new players who leverage their RL cash to twink their char to speed up the grind process. But it has been my experience in all the MMO's I've played that the vast majority of twinks were alts who where leveraging their game knowledge and game resources to quickly level up a second or third char to allow for more diversity in raid groups.
While you are correct that it would be possible to quickly tweek ones ship with hire quality components then the same ship in the hands of someone with less funds. This will always be the issue, there will always be a discrepancy in player funds and ship build quality due to player game time allotment, personality and skills. On top of that were RPG games made gear and random number luck far more important then skill, we will see that in SC player skill has a significant impact on the outcome of an encounter. Were gear might give a player an advantage over a similarly skilled player a highly skilled player will still be able to walk all over an unskilled player in a decked out ship. All the RL cash does is allow a player to jump into a ship and configure it the way they like more quickly then others but it does not help the player learn the game or acquire the skills necessary to be a proficient pilot. Here the gamer with more time to dedicate to the game will always have the advantage over the casual gamer with more cash to spend.
To the best of our knowledge as shared multiple times from Chris and his design team is utterly false. Buy and sell orders will only temporarily move for a short amount of time coupled with the vast number of locations will mean there will always be locations to buy and sell as the economy is not at all player driven. For players are but a small cog in the SC galaxy.
True. We bought into his vision and are supporting his vision of a game we also find appealing. But to say he has to do what we say because we bought into the game is similar to buying an apple then telling it has to be a peach because you bought it. While you may not like the direction the game is now going in the choice you get to make is to say i will no longer participate as it no longer is what i want. Its not because i gave you my money you now have to listen to me.
Not sure how a monthly subscription would prevent this. I agree it is the suckage when you take a break from a game or start it later and the advantage over you is insurmountable. But this is the outcome of any game given a long enough player time, all P2W does it shorten the time it takes to get to that point. In fact in some ways it allows new players a chance to sort of even the playing field, while they will still lack game knowledge they will no longer be stepping onto the field with no chance due to their gear. Other games have attempted to solve the player level imbalance by attempting to create match making and rank based combat fields, while it doesn't remove player skill from the equation it does allow other players a chance.
Star Citizen is going to be int resting as it has the potential to allow for new player areas and then allow them to strike out on their own at their own pace based upon their gear, skill and level of risk tolerance. And while high contributes to the game will be able to strike out more quickly they will not be able to stop others from doing the same when they decide to. Which is honestly the only concern that should be addressed if it exists at all. Being jealous because Joe is able to fly a Javelin day one and your not able to is on you. Joe blocking you from leaving the core worlds with their Javelin is on the game design (this is not to say if you come across Joe in your unescorted Hull and they blow you up as being the same thing).
if you are going to say it is unfair for individuals to use their money to advantage, what about orgs?
is it unfair if a large org like TEST uses its vast resources to dominate the game?
should there be a limit on how big an org can grow?
just kidding, we know from other games that smaller groups will band together using out-of-game channels (think Discord) if that is what it takes to 'win'
the point is, there will always be workarounds for limits on the resources we can apply to our game
is it unfair if a large org like TEST uses its vast resources to dominate the game?
should there be a limit on how big an org can grow?
just kidding, we know from other games that smaller groups will band together using out-of-game channels (think Discord) if that is what it takes to 'win'
the point is, there will always be workarounds for limits on the resources we can apply to our game
I disagree. As someone whose primary goal in this game is large capital ship gameplay, I have always thought it would require many players to fit and run a large capital ship. That is one of the reasons I initially considered joining Test -- a lot of players that I could share my capitals with.
My plan has always been to find a group that is also interested in capital ship play, and try to organize the efforts of those players around it.
If I can get a group of 100 or so, it would take mere DAYS for us to fit out a Javelin and get it operational. Assuming that there are missions that require (and will profitably compensate for) a Javelin, we'd be up and running in a few days.
This is not significantly different. We can save a few days of time. I don't think that is worth fretting over.
People keep saying it's possible to "win" at Star Citizen. I am totally unsure how that would ever be possible.
The point of Star Citizen is to play it. To experience it. In my case, to experience it with a large group of friends trying to operate a fleet of capital ships.
It is quite likely that we will mostly be focused on killing NPCs. That's how Star Citizen is -- the VAST MAJORITY of the population are NPCs.
This is completely inconsistent with CR's repeated statements that the VAST MAJORITY of the population will be NPCs.
Unlike other games, NPCs will participate in and DOMINATE the market in SC. No player or player organization will be able to have even a marginal impact on the market prices.
This is a unique game design in SC and people keep conveniently forgetting this when they complain about the effects some rich guy can have by wasting millions of RL dollars in exchange for a video game.
It is a purely imaginary problem. All you have to do is realize it doesn't exist.
It would only have delayed them by a few days. See above.
And don't forget that the game will exist in Beta for quite a while before release, and THEY ARE NOT WIPING THE DB on release. So on release EVERY SINGLE PLAYER who has participated in the beta will be far ahead of the players who don't, so your argument makes no sense anyway.
You may as well advocate for a complete server wipe on release day.
All I can say is: BRING IT ON!
I can't wait for those scrubs to be piloting their solo capitals around the universe. My buddies and I in our properly crewed capitals will be tearing them up, taking their ships and either adding them to our fleet or salvaging them for some sweet, sweet UEC to distribute among our crew.
What you say is true. WOW is a different type of game though so it's not really an apples-apples comparison.
For example you NEVER drop or otherwise lose your gear in WOW when you die. So you buy once and then you're good for eternity. In SC every time you die you are going to lose all the stuff you bought, so you will need to keep buying more and more UEC if you die often. I would argue that's actually good for the game.
The other significant difference is that WOW doesn't exist except as a dungeon/raiding game. There is literally nothing at all to do in the game but grind that same content over and over and over to try to get +1 bullshit on each of your items before you can push ahead to the next repetitive grind.
That's the reason you can't buy high end gear, because there would be no game.
Star Citizen is different, the point is NOT the gear. The content is NOT locked behind endless grinding of the same NPC sequence hoping for the loot fairy to drop the magical +1 bullshit that you need to progress. It is an entirely different game where gear is simply something you USE and not the GOAL of the game in its entirety.
So what? See above.
Wrong. CIG has stated multiple times no player will be able to influence the economy. SC is NOT a player-driven economy.
I might agree with you EXCEPT all the players whining about this are doing so based on categorically FALSE ASSUMPTIONS about the game.
They are in effect making up a bunch of bullshit reasons that don't actually exist or apply to this game AT ALL, and using that to justify their alarmist viewpoints.
Whomever made that statement is totally right. People are sometimes silly, and will make shit up in their own minds and then cry about it. That is exactly what is happening here.
That's certainly one way to do it - just charge people subscription fees.
The problem with that is it significantly limits the player base to only the middle- and upper-socioeconomic classes.
There are a TON of gamers who could really add a lot to this game if only they could play it without having to pay a monthly fee. And why should they not be able to play? The more, the merrier I say.
In order for that to happen, to make the game available to EVERYONE even if they can't afford $15/month, is you can't have subscription fees. You need to make money some other way.
Why not sell UEC then? People who don't have much money, but do have plenty of time, can play the game and earn the UEC themselves.
People who do have money but DON'T necessarily have the time can contribute money to the system to pay for not only themselves, but also for other people. It's a beautiful setup.
The net result of this is that instead of X people playing the game you can have 2X or even 3X people playing the game, and it's FREE for everyone unless you choose to buy some extra UEC.
Given that this is NOT a player-based economy as so many people erroneously claim, selling UEC cannot actually have that much of an impact on the economy.
In the worst case scenario, some idiots will decide to take out solo Idris or Javelin in the early days of the PU and we, my friends, will feast on their corpses.
It seems like a win-win to me.
I just received a "One from the Chairman" email from CR. Here is a snippet that pertains precisely to this situation. If after reading this you are still concerned about UEC then you probably need to think long and hard about why you don't trust CR and whether or not this game is really for you.
UEC
Recently a few people have voiced their concerns about the removal of the player UEC wallet cap that came with the release of Star Citizen Alpha 3.2. This was done to help smooth over the transition to an in-game economy and to give people that had purchased game items through the now-defunct Voyager Direct web store the ability to ‘melt’ them back for UEC, so they can repurchase new items in-game. As we are going to be rebalancing the pricing and economy as we expand the game, and as we currently reset everyone’s accounts when we release a new patch, we felt it would be unfair to force people to keep items they may have bought at a radically different price. This would have happened if we’d kept the overall hard cap on UEC as many players had amassed a lot more than 150,000 UEC worth of items. We still limit the maximum purchasing to 25,000 UEC a day, but we felt that removing the cap was the right call, especially as with every persistent database reset we need to refund players the UEC they have purchased with money and used to buy in-game items. It’s one thing to lose an item due to gameplay, but it’s a complete other thing to have your game account forcibly reset with each new patch, losing all the items you paid actual money for.
Putting aside the puzzle of why some people don’t have a problem with stockpiling ships or items but a player having more than 150,000 UEC is game breaking, I think it may be useful to revisit Star Citizen’s economic model.
Developing and operating a game of Star Citizen’s ambition is expensive. From day one of the campaign we’ve been quite clear on the economic model for Star Citizen, which is to not require a subscription like many MMOs, but instead rely on sales of initial game packages and in-game money to fund development and online running costs. To ensure money isn’t a deciding factor in progression, the core principle that the game follows is that everything you can obtain with real money, outside of your initial game package, can also be earned in game via normal and fun gameplay. There will also be plenty of things that can only be earned by playing.
There are two types of resource players have that they can contribute to Star Citizen to make it better: time and money. A player that has lots of time but only backed for the basic game helps out by playing the game, giving feedback, and assisting new players. On the flip side, if a player has a family and a demanding job and only has four hours to game a week but wants to spend some money to shortcut the time investment they would need to purchase a new ship, what’s wrong with that? They are helping fund the ongoing development and running costs of the game, which benefits everyone. The exact same ship can be earned through pure gameplay without having to spend any money and the backer that has plenty of time is likely to be better at dogfighting and FPS gameplay after playing more hours to earn the ship. I don’t want to penalize either type of backer; I want them both to have fun. People should not feel disadvantaged because they don’t have time, nor should they feel disadvantaged if they don’t have money. I want our tent to be large and encompass all types of players with varied skill sets, time, and money.
This was the economic approach I proposed out when I first pitched Star Citizen because it is the model as a player I prefer. I don’t like to have to pay a subscription just to play and I hate when things are deliberately locked behind a paywall, but as someone that doesn’t have twenty hours a week to dedicate to building up my character or possessions, I appreciate the option to get a head start if I’m willing to pay a little extra.
Some people are worried that they will be disadvantaged when the game starts for ‘real’ compared to players that have stockpiled ships or UEC. This has been a debate on the forums since the project started, but this is not a concern for me as I know what the game will be and I know how we’re designing it.
There will always be some players that have more than others, regardless of whether they’ve spent more or played more, because people start at different times and play at different paces. This is the nature of persistent MMOs. Star Citizen isn’t some race to the top; it’s not like Highlander where “There can only be one!” It is an open-ended Persistent Universe Sandbox that doesn’t have an end game or a specific win-state. We are building it to cater to players of all skill levels, that prefer PvE or PvP, that like to play solo or in a group or a large organization, that want to pursue various professions, some peaceful and some combat orientated. This is the core philosophy of Star Citizen; there isn’t one path, nor is there one way to have fun.
This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isn’t a normal game. It’s a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people.
See you in the ‘Verse!
Chris Roberts
Recently a few people have voiced their concerns about the removal of the player UEC wallet cap that came with the release of Star Citizen Alpha 3.2. This was done to help smooth over the transition to an in-game economy and to give people that had purchased game items through the now-defunct Voyager Direct web store the ability to ‘melt’ them back for UEC, so they can repurchase new items in-game. As we are going to be rebalancing the pricing and economy as we expand the game, and as we currently reset everyone’s accounts when we release a new patch, we felt it would be unfair to force people to keep items they may have bought at a radically different price. This would have happened if we’d kept the overall hard cap on UEC as many players had amassed a lot more than 150,000 UEC worth of items. We still limit the maximum purchasing to 25,000 UEC a day, but we felt that removing the cap was the right call, especially as with every persistent database reset we need to refund players the UEC they have purchased with money and used to buy in-game items. It’s one thing to lose an item due to gameplay, but it’s a complete other thing to have your game account forcibly reset with each new patch, losing all the items you paid actual money for.
Putting aside the puzzle of why some people don’t have a problem with stockpiling ships or items but a player having more than 150,000 UEC is game breaking, I think it may be useful to revisit Star Citizen’s economic model.
Developing and operating a game of Star Citizen’s ambition is expensive. From day one of the campaign we’ve been quite clear on the economic model for Star Citizen, which is to not require a subscription like many MMOs, but instead rely on sales of initial game packages and in-game money to fund development and online running costs. To ensure money isn’t a deciding factor in progression, the core principle that the game follows is that everything you can obtain with real money, outside of your initial game package, can also be earned in game via normal and fun gameplay. There will also be plenty of things that can only be earned by playing.
There are two types of resource players have that they can contribute to Star Citizen to make it better: time and money. A player that has lots of time but only backed for the basic game helps out by playing the game, giving feedback, and assisting new players. On the flip side, if a player has a family and a demanding job and only has four hours to game a week but wants to spend some money to shortcut the time investment they would need to purchase a new ship, what’s wrong with that? They are helping fund the ongoing development and running costs of the game, which benefits everyone. The exact same ship can be earned through pure gameplay without having to spend any money and the backer that has plenty of time is likely to be better at dogfighting and FPS gameplay after playing more hours to earn the ship. I don’t want to penalize either type of backer; I want them both to have fun. People should not feel disadvantaged because they don’t have time, nor should they feel disadvantaged if they don’t have money. I want our tent to be large and encompass all types of players with varied skill sets, time, and money.
This was the economic approach I proposed out when I first pitched Star Citizen because it is the model as a player I prefer. I don’t like to have to pay a subscription just to play and I hate when things are deliberately locked behind a paywall, but as someone that doesn’t have twenty hours a week to dedicate to building up my character or possessions, I appreciate the option to get a head start if I’m willing to pay a little extra.
Some people are worried that they will be disadvantaged when the game starts for ‘real’ compared to players that have stockpiled ships or UEC. This has been a debate on the forums since the project started, but this is not a concern for me as I know what the game will be and I know how we’re designing it.
There will always be some players that have more than others, regardless of whether they’ve spent more or played more, because people start at different times and play at different paces. This is the nature of persistent MMOs. Star Citizen isn’t some race to the top; it’s not like Highlander where “There can only be one!” It is an open-ended Persistent Universe Sandbox that doesn’t have an end game or a specific win-state. We are building it to cater to players of all skill levels, that prefer PvE or PvP, that like to play solo or in a group or a large organization, that want to pursue various professions, some peaceful and some combat orientated. This is the core philosophy of Star Citizen; there isn’t one path, nor is there one way to have fun.
This may be a foreign concept to gamers as the majority of games are about winning and losing, but Star Citizen isn’t a normal game. It’s a First Person Universe that allows you to live a virtual life in a compelling futuristic setting. You win by having fun, and fun is different things to different people.
See you in the ‘Verse!
Chris Roberts