This is why Killboards matter

Overlord

Captain
Nov 30, 2014
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OVERLORD_COOPER
At the end of the day, I do believe the leader boards matter. Good pilots work together. If someone managed to make their way to the top of the leader boards by team means, well, I suppose that's a great achievement on the teamwork level. What we need to be careful of is this leader board ranking. We do not want to askew our judgement or attitude in game over our skill in flight. We are a big organization, 2nd biggest so far. Maintaining a scratch-less reputation will be impossible, but, in the course and event where there is conflict, its best that you always be the better person so to speak. Setting our tolerance level and sportsmanship above the rest. This is how our rep gets out and our Org grows. Nobody is holding a gun to someone's head and saying don't use your own strategy, but at the end of the day, keep in mind how you communicate with others before, during, and after an encounter with a non Testie as you are representing more than yourself now. So if it takes a team for you to get to the top of the leader boards, go you. Anyone up there has the right to be proud of their achievement and hopefully it inspires others to try their best as well or invent new methods.
I think judging everyone in one broad stroke as cheaters and manipulators because they are highly placed in the Killboard is a mistake. Sure some people log on with corp mates and stack the deck but that probably happens far less than people think. I have logged on with corp mates maybe 5% of the time so my K/B endeavors are solo 95% of the time. But I am thrown into that category of not being a good pilot because I, according to them, cheat? And lets not forget, cheating is subjective especially when the mechanic exists. Now if you are manipulating files, hacking or robo-farming or what have you > that's cheating by anyone's standards. So I guess it boils down to which standards are we going to abide by. Personally I hate suicide gankers and perhaps this may not be a problem when the final game comes out - I certainly hope it isn't a problem. But if a group wants to do it then I can live with it. But there are those that adamantly oppose this. They say it's just a game and we shouldn't resort to a mindset of 'winning at all costs'. And yes it is a game; football is a game, soccer is a game, basketball is a game, chess is a game and there are a lot of serious players and fans who play these games. But for some reason when you play a computer game you can't take it seriously or are mocked for doing so. I find this rather strange because I think everyone's different and should play any game, any way they like. And if they get enjoyment out of eviscerating, crushing or frustrating the competition out of existence using existing mechanics, then gods speed. I think we should all play the game how we like and not try to force others to play a certain way. All we can do is follow CIG guidelines and hope for the best. But I do know one thing, I loath suicide gankers but if 70% of the corps out there are doing it, I'm getting my Hachimaki out.

So if people are placing high on the Killbaord, I have a healthy respect for them, even if they are taking advantage of existing mechanics. Personally I would love to see Squad Battles fixed and all this would be moot. But even if Squad Battles are up and running, there will always be people downplaying and even mocking anyone who does Battle Royal. Personally I think such people should take advantage of Battle Royal and if you notice others working together and you are outnumbered, fly like hell! I have experienced being outnumbered and actually come out on top soloing it. Sure it's not easy but if anyone thinks that the PU will be more forgiving then they are living in - excuse the pun - another universe. In fact I look at such things as great training and I have to say I am a pretty good pilot - when it comes to running from my adversaries. But that might just come in handy in the PU. So take advantage of being outnumbered. And stop whining about people stealing your kill! If you can't finish the job then you shouldn't be bitching about it in the first place. I have had tons of people stealing my kills and good on them - it is called taking tactical advantage of the situation. Something I think we will all have to learn to do in the PU.
 

NKato

Grand Admiral
Apr 25, 2014
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NKato
All I hear is quacking - who the hell cares about KDR and Killmails/killboards? They're mainly a chest-thumping thing, and not a concrete, valuable metric for actual on-field performance. (There are other factors at play apart from getting the highest kill count, you know.)
 
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CrashMan054

Commander
Oct 23, 2014
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CrashMan054
All I hear is quacking - who the hell cares about KDR and Killmails/killboards? They're mainly a chest-thumping thing, and not a concrete, valuable metric for actual on-field performance. (There are other factors at play apart from getting the highest kill count, you know.)
That's already been stated multiple times with varying degrees of flame.
 

reavs

Rear Admiral
Nov 2, 2013
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Reavs
Of course they're a valuable way to gauge how skilled someone is are you saying that sports leaderboards mean nothing in the grand scheme of things? They matter and it's a quick way to get a hold on someones skill level, obviously watching someone play and fight in a team situtation, seeing how well work with others and a whole host of other things can be observed to see how good they are but killboards are a very good way to gauge skill. Manipulation is of course a worry but those sorts of people are very well known and tend be easily spotted. Take marmite collective in eve they rack up huge amounts of isk destroyed and kills but everyone know those a hisec shitlords camping major trade hubs waiting for the retards during a wardeck to filter in or a blockade runner to fuck up. To compelety ignore killboards as a valuable way to gauge someone skill is completely ignorant and is just as bad as those who rely soley on a killboard for information on a player.
 

CrashMan054

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Oct 23, 2014
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CrashMan054
Of course they're a valuable way to gauge how skilled someone is are you saying that sports leaderboards mean nothing in the grand scheme of things? They matter and it's a quick way to get a hold on someones skill level, obviously watching someone play and fight in a team situtation, seeing how well work with others and a whole host of other things can be observed to see how good they are but killboards are a very good way to gauge skill. Manipulation is of course a worry but those sorts of people are very well known and tend be easily spotted. Take marmite collective in eve they rack up huge amounts of isk destroyed and kills but everyone know those a hisec shitlords camping major trade hubs waiting for the retards during a wardeck to filter in or a blockade runner to fuck up. To compelety ignore killboards as a valuable way to gauge someone skill is completely ignorant and is just as bad as those who rely soley on a killboard for information on a player.
I would refer you to earlier posts in this thread.
 

CrashMan054

Commander
Oct 23, 2014
1,146
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CrashMan054
I think judging everyone in one broad stroke as cheaters and manipulators because they are highly placed in the Killboard is a mistake. Sure some people log on with corp mates and stack the deck but that probably happens far less than people think. I have logged on with corp mates maybe 5% of the time so my K/B endeavors are solo 95% of the time. But I am thrown into that category of not being a good pilot because I, according to them, cheat? And lets not forget, cheating is subjective especially when the mechanic exists. Now if you are manipulating files, hacking or robo-farming or what have you > that's cheating by anyone's standards. So I guess it boils down to which standards are we going to abide by. Personally I hate suicide gankers and perhaps this may not be a problem when the final game comes out - I certainly hope it isn't a problem. But if a group wants to do it then I can live with it. But there are those that adamantly oppose this. They say it's just a game and we shouldn't resort to a mindset of 'winning at all costs'. And yes it is a game; football is a game, soccer is a game, basketball is a game, chess is a game and there are a lot of serious players and fans who play these games. But for some reason when you play a computer game you can't take it seriously or are mocked for doing so. I find this rather strange because I think everyone's different and should play any game, any way they like. And if they get enjoyment out of eviscerating, crushing or frustrating the competition out of existence using existing mechanics, then gods speed. I think we should all play the game how we like and not try to force others to play a certain way. All we can do is follow CIG guidelines and hope for the best. But I do know one thing, I loath suicide gankers but if 70% of the corps out there are doing it, I'm getting my Hachimaki out.

So if people are placing high on the Killbaord, I have a healthy respect for them, even if they are taking advantage of existing mechanics. Personally I would love to see Squad Battles fixed and all this would be moot. But even if Squad Battles are up and running, there will always be people downplaying and even mocking anyone who does Battle Royal. Personally I think such people should take advantage of Battle Royal and if you notice others working together and you are outnumbered, fly like hell! I have experienced being outnumbered and actually come out on top soloing it. Sure it's not easy but if anyone thinks that the PU will be more forgiving then they are living in - excuse the pun - another universe. In fact I look at such things as great training and I have to say I am a pretty good pilot - when it comes to running from my adversaries. But that might just come in handy in the PU. So take advantage of being outnumbered. And stop whining about people stealing your kill! If you can't finish the job then you shouldn't be bitching about it in the first place. I have had tons of people stealing my kills and good on them - it is called taking tactical advantage of the situation. Something I think we will all have to learn to do in the PU.
In the PU, it doesn't matter if someone steals your kill, it's about overall victory. Kill stealing in a DM situation like AC is considered a dick move because AC win state depends on kills. In the PU, if someone shoots the enemy, chances are they're your friend. As long as the enemy is destroyed, everyone gets the scraps/rewards.

There's a very fine line between taking a game seriously and being a dick who only cares about winning/stats. Just look at CoD's broken, acidic community.
 

reavs

Rear Admiral
Nov 2, 2013
24
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395
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Reavs
In the PU, it doesn't matter if someone steals your kill, it's about overall victory. Kill stealing in a DM situation like AC is considered a dick move because AC win state depends on kills. In the PU, if someone shoots the enemy, chances are they're your friend. As long as the enemy is destroyed, everyone gets the scraps/rewards.

There's a very fine line between taking a game seriously and being a dick who only cares about winning/stats. Just look at CoD's broken, acidic community.
Every community is going to have people that are going to want to win at all costs and be highly competitive when they play, im defintely one of them. As long as it's done according to the games ruleset, let the haters hate. I'll play how I want to and im very positive there are others in here with the same mindset. Eve isn't nearly as toxic people mae it out to be, it's got a very high skill cap especially in regards to ingame knowledge but a very large portion of players are more than willing to help you out after they've blown you the fuck up and this will be the same.
 

NKato

Grand Admiral
Apr 25, 2014
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Every community is going to have people that are going to want to win at all costs and be highly competitive when they play, im defintely one of them. As long as it's done according to the games ruleset, let the haters hate. I'll play how I want to and im very positive there are others in here with the same mindset. Eve isn't nearly as toxic people mae it out to be, it's got a very high skill cap especially in regards to ingame knowledge but a very large portion of players are more than willing to help you out after they've blown you the fuck up and this will be the same.
EVE didn't have such people. Not in my experience. I'd rather not repeat that in Star Citizen.
 

Overlord

Captain
Nov 30, 2014
331
83
200
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OVERLORD_COOPER
Every community is going to have people that are going to want to win at all costs and be highly competitive when they play, im defintely one of them. As long as it's done according to the games ruleset, let the haters hate. I'll play how I want to and im very positive there are others in here with the same mindset. Eve isn't nearly as toxic people mae it out to be, it's got a very high skill cap especially in regards to ingame knowledge but a very large portion of players are more than willing to help you out after they've blown you the fuck up and this will be the same.
Yeah, agreed. Let the haters hate. If they don't want to be on a Killboard then don't participate. Some people seem to think if a Killboard isn't perfect it's toxic. But Killboards are never perfect; neither is the PU or any game for that matter. But I say let the people enjoy the Killboard for what it is and don't try to dictate what is dick behavior and what isn't. If we played that game I could call people who relentless post on a thread I started with only one objective a dick. When I visit someone's post I make my point and leave, and I do it rather politely. I don't obsess over wining a debate because I consider their post their house and their opportunity to express themselves.

If people don't like the Killboard then don't look at them; if people don't want to log off when their ship is going down with a billion credits in its hold, don't log off; if you don't want someone to steal your kill then finish the job. And if you don't want to log on with friends and duke it out in AC against another group stacking stats then don't. And if someone suicide ganks you then let CIG know you are not happy with that kind of gameplay. But don't start pontificating what and how people should play if the mechanics are there. After all, it's just a game so people should stop obsessing and trying to force their style of game play down other people's throats.

And your point about EVE not being as toxic as it is made out to be is dead on the isk. And I have been in those exact situations when I was helped out and even given my stuff back after being blown to smithereens, and I have no doubt people will do the same in the PU. And what makes that especially poignant is the fact they were given the choice to return goods, or help people out of the wormhole or warn some passerby of gankers at the next gate. It's these things that often escape people who criticize EVE and I suppose one of the endearing things about EVE is that it allows you to 'choose' to be good instead of mandating it - which clearly some people are keen to do in the PU.
 
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Overlord

Captain
Nov 30, 2014
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EVE didn't have such people. Not in my experience. I'd rather not repeat that in Star Citizen.
That hasn't been my experience. Once I got trapped in a wormhole and someone, a complete stranger who could have blown me up and taken all my stuff, helped me out. After 5 days I was pretty relieved.
 

Pazzolupo

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Oct 18, 2014
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If I post now, does it mean I can steal the title? Are we starting a new thing? Instead of being "first" on a thread, be the last?

LAST!
 

WarrenPeace

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Jul 17, 2014
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LAST!

Edit: I feel like Seung is gonna use mod abilities to cheat and win this game.
 
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