3.7 and Events and More

Mich Angel

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As far as I know what is been said prospector will not be able to filter out only the Larger ships like Orion or what ever they have coming..

Tho this is something I dearly hope they reconsider and change so prospector can filter out at least some crap..

CHEERS! 🍻
 

Vavrik

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in the Expecto patronum 😂 😂, someone brought to the table.
it will be nice if you vote up in there.

Well, I disagree, not strongly at all but I don't think that's necessary at the moment.

I actually think that might be bad for the Prospector. It's too easy to make 5000-25,000 aUEC in 20 minutes, so without rebalancing, you can theoretically make 100K in under 2 hours. Longer if you go to Lorvile or ArcCorp mostly because of escaping the planetary gravity well, but sometimes you get lucky. I think something I would rather CIG do for the prospector, is make it so we can reach areas not near outposts. It's not prospecting if everyone has already explored the area, and you can see the trash they left behind.
 

LordOfTheEmpire

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Well, I disagree, not strongly at all but I don't think that's necessary at the moment.

I actually think that might be bad for the Prospector. It's too easy to make 5000-25,000 aUEC in 20 minutes, so without rebalancing, you can theoretically make 100K in under 2 hours. Longer if you go to Lorvile or ArcCorp mostly because of escaping the planetary gravity well, but sometimes you get lucky. I think something I would rather CIG do for the prospector, is make it so we can reach areas not near outposts. It's not prospecting if everyone has already explored the area, and you can see the trash they left behind.
i mean not refine, but filter only. Like it was supposed to be.
 

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Vavrik

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i mean not refine, but filter only. Like it was supposed to be.
What's hard to explain is that I agree for the most part. But what I want is for CIG to deliver on what they've already promised BEFORE the Prospector. And I have a prospector. Where are those ships? I think they owe us a timeline for all of that, and then they need to stick with the timeline. Yes bugs will happen, setbacks will happen - but when you have people waiting 5, 6 years for a ship that hasn't appeared even on a roadmap... we can at least fly the prospector. they get to fly an empty promise.
 

Ninetoes

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Don't blame you, I was active in 3.4, 3.5 sucked so didn't play much, 3.6 was better but yes, hover mode sucks, boxes falling through your ship sucks, being interdicted continuously sucked. Plus it was summer and boating season. 😀

Looking forward to 3.7, will be playing more, hopefully, and hope to get in some events. I have a prospector I can help with and or spawn and loan out to people.
 

LordOfTheEmpire

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What's hard to explain is that I agree for the most part. But what I want is for CIG to deliver on what they've already promised BEFORE the Prospector. And I have a prospector. Where are those ships? I think they owe us a timeline for all of that, and then they need to stick with the timeline. Yes bugs will happen, setbacks will happen - but when you have people waiting 5, 6 years for a ship that hasn't appeared even on a roadmap... we can at least fly the prospector. they get to fly an empty promise.
Yeah, i know that pain, i'm a Taurus owner.
Did you see that they took her from the roadmap?
It was planned(again) to Q1 2020 and now its gone.
 

Vavrik

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Yeah, i know that pain, i'm a Taurus owner.
Did you see that they took her from the roadmap?
It was planned(again) to Q1 2020 and now its gone.
I have an Aquila fortunately, which has been in the game for a long time. I think I'm missing only 3 or 4 of my ships in total. Where's your Torus? That's been off the roadmap for a long time, man it was in the game for a while too. That would drive me nuts. I'm also looking at bugs that just pile up with no news, no response from CIG. That bothers me more than the missing ships without updates.

Technoweenie speak here... (Oops. AI mispronounced that) but last question is relevant. I get that they're re-designing things. Constantly. Ok like maybe some actual progress would be better? Is CIG building things like the rules that govern gravity, atmosphere and the ship flight model, is that software dependent on inheritance or is it built into each ship? Inquiring minds want to know.
If those things are built into the ships, in which universe does that make sense?
 
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Bambooza

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Good questions.

The biggest issue is the engine they picked was perfectly suited towards a small multiplayer experience and would have done well within the scope of the original game design. But the project blew up (luckily the Senior staff was accustomed to larger game development otherwise I am very sure this would have crashed and burned long ago like so many others before it, the kickstarter curse)

So this engine is lacking major fundamental components required for a MMO, for large game world with no loading screens or zoning. (look at what was the game level limitations of Crysis 3) The other issue was the CryEngine was not well known outside of a handful of developers compared to Engines like Unreal and Source. But even Unreal as of now still lacks the server-side modifications required to handle MMO.

The next part is the engine is now relatively old as the company in charge of it has not been able to dedicate as many resources to adding new technologies. Luckily CIG was able to pick up the developers and they have been enhancing the engine graphics, physics engine on top of adding object container streaming and server-side optimizations and server meshing.

On top of that, there is a lot of feature creep from planets and ground combat now caves.

As for CIG building. They are building the rules for gravity (physics engine) ship movement (flight engine) each ship gets thruster locations and thrust values that interact with the physics engine to push the ship through the game world. (physics engine and physic grids the scope of the physics area example would be how you have gravity inside your ship and as soon as you go outside your ship you are floating is what is preventing the Hull C from being put into the game as it needs an enhancement)

One fact I would like to strongly emphasize is CIG made a lot of missteps after the great success of Kickstarter and it really wasn't until we saw 2.0 that they really started to rock and grove on the game and it really shows.

The other thing is bug will often be left as they are not game-breaking. It's true that they might be an inconvenience to you as the player but they do not break the game as a whole and often bugs will either be identified and fixed as new features are implemented. No longer relevant as new features and tweaks get implemented or they take a lot of development resources that are currently allocated towards implementing new features and flushing out existing features and so are on the backlog until later.
 

Vavrik

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TL:DR: Ok I get it but, I have legitimate concerns IMO. It's not quite about what they're working on. These questions have been asked in the SC forums, to no avail. No answer from CIG. They aren't hard questions for CIG to answer, but we might have a few problems answering them ourselves. The questions boil down to, "Why is code base modifications required for every ship, planet or moon? " and virtually every other property in the game? Really, I shouldn't be asking another supporter, but CIG doesn't talk so I'm just saying what my concerns are.

Probably nit-picky technical details follow... non IT professionals will probably get lost. I'm just laying out the concerns and why they are concerns.

@Bambooza, I used the same ordering you did, and I'm only expressing clarification of the concerns. If you have an answer, great... I don't for any of this. I am usually an apologist for CIG but lately that has begun to erode.

Just for example, the ships all have a HUD. Few or none of the HUD navigation displays line up exactly with the center of the HUD display. that is true of virtually all of the ships that I fly even infrequently. That is indicative of a problem with either the object model (architecture or lack thereof), or incredibly sloppy programming. Probably both, but the evidence mounts that it is a problem that costs them time, and our money.

The argument that Cryengine is not capable does not wash with me, even though I do not like Cryengine much. Game engines are almost universally designed for use on a client computer, not the server. The server provides the game engine software, but the program runs on the users computer, not the server. What runs on the server is the services that manages user identity and security, application state, the asset services, and client communications. If you screw that up, the clients will be screwed up. Most games don't use a pre-made game engine, which CIG had the option to do too, but they were in a hurry. The tools they are writing only work for Cryengine, and Lumberyard clients. They do not appear to help with the server components of any other game.

Physics is simply another place where CIG appears to be using in-class software to build the behavior. That is not good OOP, which is why you'd want to use C++ or some other OOP language. If you're not a programmer, go to your company programmers, JAVA or C# guys are fine, and ask them how inheritance works., and how properties can leverage that model. This is programming 1.0 kind of stuff, and I believe CIG is not leveraging it. Have you ever played KSP? DId you know that no ship, ship part, or part of a part, or construct has _ANY_ code in it? That goes for planets, moons and stars in the game, atmosphere or not. It's just a model, defined by things in an XML file.

Feature creep is a big problem with CIG, and that is also costing them our money. Caves just as an example are another kind of construct that should require no code. Users figured out how to build caves in SL (Second Life) using a game designed in 2002 and 3. Sink the ground, and build your cave, or build the cave in a hill. No code required, unless you're building something new and then you use the Object Model so that your code doesn't have to exist in every cave element. You just reference the class in objects you want it in, and set the properties. That's all there is to it. Yes SL is a little bit old to mention here, but has a great example of how to build caves in an MMO that supports as many users as you want to support. they have supported as many as 100K simultaneous users, but regularly support "only" 45K simultaneous users on a typical day. That's 900 times as many users as a single SC instance. 1 shard. Multiple regions. The game Dual Universe which I mention in the next paragraph is able to do this, and has constructed an interesting solution to the player density in a small area question. They figured out how to make the region size and density as dynamic as player movement.

On missteps, I have no argument whatsoever. Their lessons learned are immense(fs.. spelling?). They've learned, that is why I am still a backer of SC and not one of the other games that are going to beat SC to market, with less than 10% of the programmers. CIG no longer leads the pack of 3 +1(Elite Dangerous is the 1. It has its own issues because of being rushed to beat everyone else to market), in any metric except monthly earnings and expences. The market leader is now Dual Universe which is more like Second Life in space than anything else. They have a well constructed object model too. No code required for user constructed items. You inherit thee classes from properties you set, and nobody writes code to do it.

Finally, leaving bugs behind is always a mistake. Always. never move forward if there are known bugs in your code, in fact don't even include that code in the build you're releasing. That is part of the things we have been drilling into programmers since a decade or more before the Manifesto for Agile Software Development was written ("Agile"(tm) is a subset of this, consisting of only 1 acceptable model, where there are at least 12 viable models for different circumstances. Agile(tm) is a good way to mess up a project budget just as surely as a waterfall)

I was sure at one point in 2017, that CIG was going to make an offer for Novaquark, the Dual Universe developer. Novaquark was in fairly hard financial state. There was a lot of synergy between the goals of each company. They didn't, and now Novaquark is growing and progressing toward their earlier go live date faster than SC.

Those are my concerns. That's all they are. If you or anyone who cares to answer any of these concerns, I don't expect it, and I might have some questions. It is NOT an attack on you, it's what I see as a legitimate question from a backer of the game. I hope CIG explains themselves one day, instead of relying on apologists. They chose to make this process open, precisely so we could ask questions and contribute to their success, and by extension our success. I don't see them exactly living up to their end of the bargain.
 
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LordOfTheEmpire

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@Vavrik i could not agree more with you.

as a player of Elite and others i have serious concerns about the main structure of game and how long the content have of playable life.

Ooops 1: For me there is no reason starting in a game with the biggest mining ship of the verse, like the orion. Ok, what you gonna do? in hours of gameplay you will be rich and can buy in game
clothes, weapons and.... more ships?

10 years waiting for this?

Ooops 2: They need money to finish the game, so they need to sell ships, but to deliver the ships they need to not working properly in the verse and they gonna need more money on the future.

this is a Pyramid Scam. this type of scam is not gonna made anyone rich, but of course is gonna flop the game.

For me the gameplay should be based com levels or ranks and base professions
Like for example:

They can sell the ships, of course, but you will not be able to use it until you have level for it.
If you buy a Orion, you can only pilot or take the "Drivers License" for this type of ship on Level 50 of mining, after that you can pilot the Orion and enjoy that level of gameplay

In this case of course, you gonna need a enter level ship of this profession, the Prospector.

As in Base professions i think they are killing the game
Before the big flying box called Reclaimer and of the Big flat flying hammerhead
they had to put on the game the base ship for each profession in my opinion

-Vulture for Salvage
-Prospector for mining
-Small combat ships
-People transport, a small genesis star-liner -> that profession really grind my gears, why they are not doing this ?
-Data deliver
... and the list go

as the apathetic dev John Crewe sad, one pillar of the game is gonna be the NPC, that you will be able to hire to work with you in the ship, on a turret and what else. and
why they are not doing this?

I can't figure it out what is the priorities of C.R
for me, to avoid floping on "Ooops 1" they are rushing(by rushing i mean the lame production of the roadmap of this year) SQ42 to monetize it soon, so they can have money from a complete product
 
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Vavrik

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I can't figure it out what is the priorities of C.R
for me, to avoid floping on "Ooops 1" they are rushing(by rushing i mean the lame production of the roadmap of this year) SQ42 to monetize it soon, so they can have money from a complete product
So I agree and I see how a lot of players, especially backers from some point before 2017 would feel this way, and that CR and basically the CIG publicity and fundraising, and the roadmap don't really build a lot of confidence. Less the longer they've waited. I started following SC development from some of the early publicity, but didn't become a backer until September of 2017. I don't want to jump the line and I feel like crap about what they're doing every time a new concept ship is put into the game before a Connie that isn't even on the roadmap anymore.

I do this professionally too, which hurts me even more to see happen here. There is real intent to make a game. They wouldn't be hiring people like a mad man if this was a scam. But I don't think "senior management" at CIG is able to divorce themselves from the nitty gritty small details in the design, or even how to write code. That is an almost fatal thing right there. One person cannot manage 500 people, or really much more than 5 or 10 people, and I prefer the smaller number. I think that is the primary source of the problem.
 

Bambooza

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TL:DR: Ok I get it but, I have legitimate concerns IMO. It's not quite about what they're working on. These questions have been asked in the SC forums, to no avail. No answer from CIG. They aren't hard questions for CIG to answer, but we might have a few problems answering them ourselves. The questions boil down to, "Why is code base modifications required for every ship, planet or moon? " and virtually every other property in the game? Really, I shouldn't be asking another supporter, but CIG doesn't talk so I'm just saying what my concerns are.

Probably nit-picky technical details follow... non IT professionals will probably get lost. I'm just laying out the concerns and why they are concerns.

@Bambooza, I used the same ordering you did, and I'm only expressing clarification of the concerns. If you have an answer, great... I don't for any of this. I am usually an apologist for CIG but lately that has begun to erode.

Just for example, the ships all have a HUD. Few or none of the HUD navigation displays line up exactly with the center of the HUD display. that is true of virtually all of the ships that I fly even infrequently. That is indicative of a problem with either the object model (architecture or lack thereof), or incredibly sloppy programming. Probably both, but the evidence mounts that it is a problem that costs them time, and our money.

The argument that Cryengine is not capable does not wash with me, even though I do not like Cryengine much. Game engines are almost universally designed for use on a client computer, not the server. The server provides the game engine software, but the program runs on the users computer, not the server. What runs on the server is the services that manages user identity and security, application state, the asset services, and client communications. If you screw that up, the clients will be screwed up. Most games don't use a pre-made game engine, which CIG had the option to do too, but they were in a hurry. The tools they are writing only work for Cryengine, and Lumberyard clients. They do not appear to help with the server components of any other game.

Physics is simply another place where CIG appears to be using in-class software to build the behavior. That is not good OOP, which is why you'd want to use C++ or some other OOP language. If you're not a programmer, go to your company programmers, JAVA or C# guys are fine, and ask them how inheritance works., and how properties can leverage that model. This is programming 1.0 kind of stuff, and I believe CIG is not leveraging it. Have you ever played KSP? DId you know that no ship, ship part, or part of a part, or construct has _ANY_ code in it? That goes for planets, moons and stars in the game, atmosphere or not. It's just a model, defined by things in an XML file.

Feature creep is a big problem with CIG, and that is also costing them our money. Caves just as an example are another kind of construct that should require no code. Users figured out how to build caves in SL (Second Life) using a game designed in 2002 and 3. Sink the ground, and build your cave, or build the cave in a hill. No code required, unless you're building something new and then you use the Object Model so that your code doesn't have to exist in every cave element. You just reference the class in objects you want it in, and set the properties. That's all there is to it. Yes SL is a little bit old to mention here, but has a great example of how to build caves in an MMO that supports as many users as you want to support. they have supported as many as 100K simultaneous users, but regularly support "only" 45K simultaneous users on a typical day. That's 900 times as many users as a single SC instance. 1 shard. Multiple regions. The game Dual Universe which I mention in the next paragraph is able to do this, and has constructed an interesting solution to the player density in a small area question. They figured out how to make the region size and density as dynamic as player movement.

On missteps, I have no argument whatsoever. Their lessons learned are immense(fs.. spelling?). They've learned, that is why I am still a backer of SC and not one of the other games that are going to beat SC to market, with less than 10% of the programmers. CIG no longer leads the pack of 3 +1(Elite Dangerous is the 1. It has its own issues because of being rushed to beat everyone else to market), in any metric except monthly earnings and expences. The market leader is now Dual Universe which is more like Second Life in space than anything else. They have a well constructed object model too. No code required for user constructed items. You inherit thee classes from properties you set, and nobody writes code to do it.

Finally, leaving bugs behind is always a mistake. Always. never move forward if there are known bugs in your code, in fact don't even include that code in the build you're releasing. That is part of the things we have been drilling into programmers since a decade or more before the Manifesto for Agile Software Development was written ("Agile"(tm) is a subset of this, consisting of only 1 acceptable model, where there are at least 12 viable models for different circumstances. Agile(tm) is a good way to mess up a project budget just as surely as a waterfall)

I was sure at one point in 2017, that CIG was going to make an offer for Novaquark, the Dual Universe developer. Novaquark was in fairly hard financial state. There was a lot of synergy between the goals of each company. They didn't, and now Novaquark is growing and progressing toward their earlier go live date faster than SC.

Those are my concerns. That's all they are. If you or anyone who cares to answer any of these concerns, I don't expect it, and I might have some questions. It is NOT an attack on you, it's what I see as a legitimate question from a backer of the game. I hope CIG explains themselves one day, instead of relying on apologists. They chose to make this process open, precisely so we could ask questions and contribute to their success, and by extension our success. I don't see them exactly living up to their end of the bargain.

You are right and I was not aware of your own expertise and so was trying to keep it simple. But if you wish to go into a more deep dive a lot of the information I put into the response was backed up from the lumberyard engine itself as provided by Amazon. Years of their own published information be it Youtube, old forums and now Spectrum as well as a slew of other development information posted to twitter and instagram. (really wish they would stick to one source)

The UI elements were crafted in Flash and imported.
They have now changed it to be in the engine and are not making any major changes to the old HUD elements and are in the process of refactoring the old HUD elements.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENuiIcPK10&t=2689s
(In fact this is a great video for most things Development)

CryEngine now Lumberyard is a great engine within its design specifications which was a First Person Shooter with precooked map assets. It was missing some needed elements like Object Container streaming to move away from full map loading to only loading objects around the player. It also has limitations on that it applies world physics to all objects with in the map.

They have been spending a great deal of time with procedural generation. Modifying the lights to be more SciFi instead of point lights.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRX0ZwzXqk



The argument that Cryengine is not capable does not wash with me, even though I do not like Cryengine much. Game engines are almost universally designed for use on a client computer, not the server. The server provides the game engine software, but the program runs on the users computer, not the server. What runs on the server is the services that manages user identity and security, application state, the asset services, and client communications. If you screw that up, the clients will be screwed up. Most games don't use a pre-made game engine, which CIG had the option to do too, but they were in a hurry. The tools they are writing only work for Cryengine, and Lumberyard clients. They do not appear to help with the server components of any other game.
In fact, the server does run the same game code. While it does not worry about the render pipeline as it's not displaying the game world it still needs to know the location of all the wire meshes of all of the objects each tick so that it can authority check client input updates and relay to the client's world state changes. The server has the added burden of running all of the AI subroutines. And while I have been personally able to offload wire mesh boundary checks to the GPU most servers do not have a GPU so all of this is bound by the CPU. I can see where you are coming from with your question as to the idea of a server is a stateless machine that records client input and does not often modify data on its own. But with a game world, it is changing even without player input and that information needs to be checked against game world logic to see if the client needs to be updated. So no the server is not loading the object materials, shaders and bump maps nor does it need to do z passes, lighting, and shadows. But it's doing everything else.
 
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Vavrik

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In fact, the server does run the same game code. While it does not worry about the render pipeline as it's not displaying the game world it still needs to know the location of all the wire meshes of all of the objects each tick so that it can authority check client input updates and relay to the client's world state changes. The server has the added burden of running all of the AI subroutines. And while I have been personally able to offload wire mesh boundary checks to the GPU most servers do not have a GPU so all of this is bound by the CPU. I can see where you are coming from with your question as to the idea of a server is a stateless machine that records client input and does not often modify data on its own. But with a game world, it is changing even without player input and that information needs to be checked against game world logic to see if the client needs to be updated. So no the server is not loading the object materials, shaders and bump maps nor does it need to do z passes, lighting, and shadows. But it's doing everything else.
You know, Lumberyard might be in as much of a mess as Cryengine itself still. I haven't checked recently what they have, man I can't even log into SC except for Friday night and Saturday, and even that is iffy right now. I use Unity a bit, and occasionally Unreal but I much prefer Unity. (I haven't even looked at Unreal for 18 months or so.) I'm just trying to articulate some questions, for CIG, because what I know about Lumberyard is that by default, the ground is a flat mesh, not a planet. That means for example, that CIG built the planetary bodies themselves, and defined how they work. The professional me does not think that they leveraged the object model very well. The gamer me hopes that it doesn't matter, but a small voice in my head keeps wondering why code is required for a new ship. What happened to using property sheets? C++ is perfectly capable.
That's kind of at the crux of the concern.

No I'm not really a newbie at this, I've been a programmer for 36 years, since 1983, and a software architect for 25. I ran an almost successful consulting business, from '98 to 2005. We had to close the business because of post 9-11 fallout in the venture capital market. My VC's office wass 3 floors up from the hole in Tower 2. Only 1 person survived in his office, thanks to a doctor's visit. I have what turns out to be a sad but good story about that. I tried to find the business with personal assets but it just was too much for the time. I've spent from 2006 until 2 months ago as a division manager at a fairly large consulting company. I had inspiration from a fantastic TESTie too. He also runs his own business, and has been an absolute inspiration to me to try it again. Man. I just realized I've never told him that.
 
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Bambooza

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You know, Lumberyard might be in as much of a mess as Cryengine itself still. I haven't checked recently what they have, man I can't even log into SC except for Friday night and Saturday, and even that is iffy right now. I use Unity a bit, and occasionally Unreal but I much prefer Unity. (I haven't even looked at Unreal for 18 months or so.) I'm just trying to articulate some questions, for CIG, because what I know about Lumberyard is that by default, the ground is a flat mesh, not a planet. That means for example, that CIG built the planetary bodies themselves, and defined how they work. The professional me does not think that they leveraged the object model very well. The gamer me hopes that it doesn't matter, but a small voice in my head keeps wondering why code is required for a new ship. What happened to using property sheets? C++ is perfectly capable.
That's kind of at the crux of the concern.
Correct Lumberyard was designed like Source engine to handle a flat ground map that was loaded at game launch or between levels. The first change they did was make localized physics grids that allowed a physics grid inside the ship that was different than the one outside the ship. And I am sure you are keenly aware of the bugs surrounding this especially on ships that have elevators and you attempt to use them in space. Its also why boxes fall through the floor as the server hasn't updated which grid you are on yet in its own calculations. As for code required for a new ship I think you are referencing the Hull C and the reason there is new code required is that typically the physics mesh is calculated at build time as it then saves clients from the costly calculation in real-time. But because the Hull C changes in size drastically it can no longer be fudged and so they need to have the physics grid be recalculated (this only effects inside the ship)

I am sure their c++ code would be familiar to both of us and utilizing best practices of OOP as far as we both know there is always a trade-off. The other aspect is when you get into game studios there are distinct capabilities of Developers and Designers with Designers typically being more comfortable with writing simple scripts for triggered events and placing assets from the art department in the game world to make their levels. Of course, most of what I have seen of their codebase was gleamed from Bug Smashers.


No I'm not really a newbie at this, I've been a programmer for 36 years, since 1983, and a software architect for 25. I ran an almost successful consulting business, from '98 to 2005. We had to close the business because of post 9-11 fallout in the venture capital market. My VC's office wass 3 floors up from the hole in Tower 2. Only 1 person survived in his office, thanks to a doctor's visit. I have what turns out to be a sad but good story about that. I tried to find the business with personal assets but it just was too much for the time. I've spent from 2006 until 2 months ago as a division manager at a fairly large consulting company. I had inspiration from a fantastic TESTie too. He also runs his own business, and has been an absolute inspiration to me to try it again. Man. I just realized I've never told him that.
Yes, and when I realized you had programming experiences it makes it much easier and I look forward to sharing notes. (still trying to not lose others who might be lurking). Unity is great my only problem with it was its original pricing model and limited access while you tried to see what it was capable of doing. The other was originally it was all javascript for the game logic (now they incorporated C#) and you are not able to touche the game engine just run scripts against their interpreter. This is limiting in what sort of game you can make in their engine and at times very costly as you are not able to leverage better algorithms. Unreal when it first came out even with a monthly subscription was head and shoulders above Unity as there were no costly paywalls and you got full access to not only the engine but the whole source code of the engine. I also liked the fact that I could code in c++ and expose specific methods to Blueprint (their scripting langue for designers) and have more or less the best of both worlds. Cryengine itself is not bad and is on par at the time with the other engines graphically. The issue is you can tell the parent company was having financial troubles as they stop incorporating the latest ideas like object containers and multipoint light sources along with how UI elements are crafted and incorporated into the game. Not that Unity is much better as of two years ago most UI elements were 2d overlays of the world space.
 

Vavrik

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This is really interesting stuff, thank you!!!
I use Unity most of all because most of my life has drifted from C++, and then Java, to C# since early 2001, I was one of the beta testers, and unhappy with what was going on in Java development (arguments between SUN and IBM in those days). I still use C++ to teach, because if someone learns that right, they can learn anything.

If I have time in the next few weeks, I'll try to see what's happening in Lumberyard again. You've rekindled some interest.

But I still have the concerns surrounding the object model in SC. There is too much coding required to put a new ship in the game, too many things that don't line up properly, etc. I know they can't fix it all at once, but that they aren't taking care of a lot of these issues is a cause of concern. We have a saying, "You can unit test now and fix it, or you can wait till a user finds the problem. Your choice."
 

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I still use C++ to teach, because if someone learns that right, they can learn anything.
I miss c++ as I really only use it when I am dabbling in Unreal. Most of my day is spent in Enterprise Java.

"You can unit test now and fix it, or you can wait till a user finds the problem. Your choice."
Ahh, such true words. It's a shame that most companies I have worked for or know people who work for all follow the second idea. I honestly think there is a balance between the two and am far more in favor of system test suites then unit testing every method. It has been my experience that unit tests give a false sense of security in that they are often not updated with changes and are only as good as the imagination and understanding of the original programer

But I still have the concerns surrounding the object model in SC. There is too much coding required to put a new ship in the game, too many things that don't line up properly, etc.
I agree with you there are lots of concerns. My biggest is the size of CIG and its monthly financial requirements. And I have a feeling that my concern is shared amongst those at the top of CIG and why they are pushing SQ42 so hard the last year and a half at the detriment of the PU. While I think server-side object container streaming is a limiting factor on new assets being put in the verse that doesn't stop them from flushing out game mechanics and increasing missions. But there is just not the available teams to work on this as they have been tagged to work on SQ42. My hope is that once the major push is done and its QA and polishing cycles then these teams will be released back to work on game mechanics for the PU. Art assets can be used for both and designers for SQ42 will continue to support QA and work on the next SQ42 episode. Hopefully, that will free up developers to start flushing out game features for the PU and allow designers to move more things into the game.

Honestly, we will truly get to see a state of the game with this year's CitizenCon and can compare it against the last two years and that will be a good indication of the state of SC.

Things that have given me great hope for this game include.

  • Planet Tech and rotating bodies.
  • New UI (can't wait until it replaces all of the old broken flash stuff)
  • 890jump this ship more then anything shows that CIG is really getting into the swing of ship design. I also have to wonder how complete ships like the Idris, Javelin and Bengal are as they are featured in SQ42. While ships like the Driller, and other Vanduul ships don't necessarily need to have flushed out interiors.
  • Procedurally generated space stations/Procedurally generated outposts. Not really a technical achievement so much as tilesets for creating lots of point of interaction
  • Flight model. While ships thrust needs tweaking, the flight logic is sound.
  • Client object container streaming.
2.0 Released Dec 12, 2015

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3.0 Released Dec 23, 2017

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4.0 Release?
 
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Vavrik

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I agree with you there are lots of concerns. My biggest is the size of CIG and its monthly financial requirements. And I have a feeling that my concern is shared amongst those at the top of CIG and why they are pushing SQ42 so hard the last year and a half at the detriment of the PU. While I think server-side object container streaming is a limiting factor on new assets being put in the verse that doesn't stop them from flushing out game mechanics and increasing missions. But there is just not the available teams to work on this as they have been tagged to work on SQ42. My hope is that once the major push is done and its QA and polishing cycles then these teams will be released back to work on game mechanics for the PU. Art assets can be used for both and designers for SQ42 will continue to support QA and work on the next SQ42 episode. Hopefully, that will free up developers to start flushing out game features for the PU and allow designers to move more things into the game.
The size of CIG is part of why I started looking at all this. I did a comparison on not the games, but the progress between Novaquark, a small indi with a similar idea, and CIG also indi but holy cow.

I got an account on Dual Universe a couple of months back, and there is ample evidence that there design philosophy is working. They haven't achieved their ultimate goals yet, but if they beat CIG to market it's going to be a huge boost for them. Both games started around the same time. You can do more in SC, But the quality of the progress is not on CIGs side. I don't see the games as equals either, I much prefer Star Citizen right now. And it's easier to do something in SC but it feels more like it's on rails. I guess we'll see in the next year how both do.

BTW There are two orgs there, with TEST Squadron origins they claim. I recognize some of the player names, but not the people who own the orgs. I think @Montoya might need to set something straight. These orgs claim to be related. I've tried to contact one but got no response.
 
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