Choosing a Home Defense Weapon

Aramsolari

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NaffNaffBobFace said:
In my expiriance the best home defense weapon is having a decent welfare system which looks after the citizens it serves and makes sure no one feels the need to break in to anyone else's home.

It's simple, but effective.
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That's why Canada exists.

We have the gun ownership rights that America has (albeit not enshrined in a Constitution and heavily watered down) and the Social Welfare system of a Northern European state (albeit heavily watered down).

Best of both Worlds! (Albeit not excelling at either)
 
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Blind Owl

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Aramsolari said:
That's why Canada exists.

We have the gun ownership rights that America has (albeit not enshrined in a Constitution and heavily watered down) and the Social Welfare system of a Northern European state (albeit heavily watered down).

Best of both Worlds! (Albeit not excelling at either)
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And damn good beer!
 
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AntiSqueaker

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Personally I would advocate for a pistol-caliber carbine over a 12g. More ammo on tap, less recoil, easier to reload, and usually a lot lighter to boot. More common cartridge that you can plink with at any range, whereas some places have restrictions on shotguns. (My local range you have to use slugs, no shot allowed)

I have a MechTech Pistol conversion- basically an upper receiver I just slide my Glock 19 lower frame on. Being it's still running on the Glock lower I have 33 rounds of 9mm hollow points on tap with the big stick mags, and have some more manageable 17 round magazines lying around in case of reloads. There are tons of options available. I previously owned a Hi-Point 9mm, which despite their reputation for the handguns, the heavier weight and chunkiness of a blowback firearm is not nearly as noticeable in a carbine. You can get em (well, could, before COVID) for around 300 bucks and they will power through anything, they're fucking tanks.

By no means is a 12g a bad option, but in a panic situation it's very common for shooters to "short-shuck" a shotgun and not fully rack it back. You need to build up muscle memory whereas a carbine is much more intuitive and easier to handle for someone who doesn't go to the range that often.
 
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Montoya

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Aramsolari said:
That's why Canada exists.

We have the gun ownership rights that America has (albeit not enshrined in a Constitution and heavily watered down) and the Social Welfare system of a Northern European state (albeit heavily watered down).

Best of both Worlds! (Albeit not excelling at either)
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Want to see watered down?

Ill show you watered down!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLc55tRTxt8
 
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Aramsolari

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Phil said:
But you can't own a handgun unless you have a special license.
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Nah. You don't need a special license for handguns. A normal PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) is enough to own a handgun.

What's really silly though is that the Canadian government recently banned AR-15s, M-14s, Ruger Mini-14s and similar semi-automatic rifles. They left the SKS alone though...so that's nice.

To start firearms ownership in this country is already a lengthy and drawn up process. You need to undergo tests, criminal background checks, and personal reference checks. Then there's the firearms themselves. Military style semi-automatics and all handguns are considered restricted. Buy one and you automatically get entered into a registry. Due to this fact, you really have to be an idiot to use restricted firearms to commit crimes. Anyway because of this a most of the firearms used to commit crimes (generally easy to conceal handguns) are actually smuggled from the US.

Remember the mass shooting that took place in Nova Scotia, Canada earlier this year? The mass shooting that is our nation's deadliest yet? Yeah that dude was not a legal firearms owner and all his firearms were illegally obtained with most of them coming from the US. He was also batshit crazy, violent, and not a legal holder of a PAL firearms license.

So yeah...Canadian government sees that and goes? Oh whelp....let's ban semi automatic 'scary black' 'assault rifles'.

Instead of doing the difficult thing (spending more resources securing the borders from arms smugglers), they did the easy thing and passed what is essentially an Executive Decision (Order in Council) blanket banning 1000s of different models....mostly semi automatic rifles. They did this while Parliament was out of session due to Covid19 and the opposition wasn't around to challenge them. With a stroke of a pen, law abiding Canadians throughout the country suddenly find themselves in possession of expensive firearms they can't even take out of the house and must surrender within 2 years.

Meanwhile handguns are still legal, you know the type of firearm that is responsible for most of the firearms related crimes in the country.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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bedoinitusa said:
But it has to not keep them on welfare or make it that they can stay indefinitely on it too.
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Not entirely sure how it works where you are, but as far as I am aware (and have experienced) a capitalist welfare system is a safety net designed to get people back into the capitalist system when they fall out of it, not a life support system to live off indefinitely.

If keeping people on welfare is the way it works wherever you are and you live in a capitalist country, it sounds like you do not have a capitalist welfare system you have some other type of welfare system which supports and in some way/s encourages indefinite reliance on it... Or the people who built the system didn't understand how best to implement one that doesn't encourage/tolerate indefinite support in anything but the most extreme of circumstances. Even in those extreme circumstances a capitalist welfare system is still designed to get as much continuing benefit out of that consumer as possible.
 
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A further benefit I forgot to mention but that I am told works very well--would love to hear what others know of it--shotguns can be loaded with rock salt. Apparently this makes them less than lethal, but immobilizing.

Seems to me if you plan to use a gun, you're planning to use lethal force, and shouldn't waffle on the idea, but there are many stories of farmer jones spanking the county neighbor kids with salt and getting good results, so I dunno what to think.

I do think 9mm is way too small to be effective. There'sd lots of data to support this. If you want a pistol caliber carbine go with 40 S&W, 10mm or .45 ACP. 9mm will get you killed by big bad guys who refuse to stop from such a small injury. The wondernines are what got a bunch of FBI killed, and why there is now a 40S&W.
 
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Deroth

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Shadow Reaper said:
A further benefit I forgot to mention but that I am told works very well--would love to hear what others know of it--shotguns can be loaded with rock salt. Apparently this makes them less than lethal, but immobilizing.

Seems to me if you plan to use a gun, you're planning to use lethal force, and shouldn't waffle on the idea, but there are many stories of farmer jones spanking the county neighbor kids with salt and getting good results, so I dunno what to think.

I do think 9mm is way too small to be effective. There'sd lots of data to support this. If you want a pistol caliber carbine go with 40 S&W, 10mm or .45 ACP. 9mm will get you killed by big bad guys who refuse to stop from such a small injury. The wondernines are what got a bunch of FBI killed, and why there is now a 40S&W.
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That used to be true but modern advances in bullets and powder has changed this. The FBI lab ballistics tests as well as after action reports back this up.
Law enforcement has been going back to 9mm for over a decade now as shot placement is the most important and training with 9mm is more cost effective than with the other rounds listed.
 
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Hybus

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Don't forget all the storage restrictions in Canada. I'm a PAL and restricted permit holder myself, but mine are just for hunting. I don't think there is any point in owning anything for home defense. Even if you had something, by the time you unlocked your gun safe, removed the trigger lock, unlocked the ammo box, loaded the ammo, you might be at a bit of a disadvantage.
 
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Phil

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Guns are a false sense of security, if you want to prevent a break in, a gun is not the answer, a gun is only good after they h
Aramsolari said:
Nah. You don't need a special license for handguns. A normal PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) is enough to own a handgun.

What's really silly though is that the Canadian government recently banned AR-15s, M-14s, Ruger Mini-14s and similar semi-automatic rifles. They left the SKS alone though...so that's nice.

To start firearms ownership in this country is already a lengthy and drawn up process. You need to undergo tests, criminal background checks, and personal reference checks. Then there's the firearms themselves. Military style semi-automatics and all handguns are considered restricted. Buy one and you automatically get entered into a registry. Due to this fact, you really have to be an idiot to use restricted firearms to commit crimes. Anyway because of this a most of the firearms used to commit crimes (generally easy to conceal handguns) are actually smuggled from the US.

Remember the mass shooting that took place in Nova Scotia, Canada earlier this year? The mass shooting that is our nation's deadliest yet? Yeah that dude was not a legal firearms owner and all his firearms were illegally obtained with most of them coming from the US. He was also batshit crazy, violent, and not a legal holder of a PAL firearms license.

So yeah...Canadian government sees that and goes? Oh whelp....let's ban semi automatic 'scary black' 'assault rifles'.

Instead of doing the difficult thing (spending more resources securing the borders from arms smugglers), they did the easy thing and passed what is essentially an Executive Decision (Order in Council) blanket banning 1000s of different models....mostly semi automatic rifles. They did this while Parliament was out of session due to Covid19 and the opposition wasn't around to challenge them. With a stroke of a pen, law abiding Canadians throughout the country suddenly find themselves in possession of expensive firearms they can't even take out of the house and must surrender within 2 years.

Meanwhile handguns are still legal, you know the type of firearm that is responsible for most of the firearms related crimes in the country.
Click to expand...
I know my wife is Canadian, its not a PAL its a R-Pal, PAL = Long rifles, you have to get a restricted license for handguns, yes same process but they are primarily used for sport or competition, it also says you would have to sign up for a club and can't fire the weapon on your property(not that they would know lol) you have no conceal carry laws so you can't carry them on your person. And the barrels can't be shorter than what 4.1 inches, .25 and .32 calibre are prohibited? Its a lot more restrictive than here that is for sure.

The one thing I think Americans can learn from, is that Canadians have to take a safety course before they can even apply for a license, not here in America, we just toss guns out the window and hope the idiot using knows which end is which.
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Phil said:
The one thing I think Americans can learn from, is that Canadians have to take a safety course before they can even apply for a license, not here in America, we just toss guns out the window and hope the idiot using knows which end is which.
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Currently, six states require firearms safety training in order to purchase a weapon. Studies say that currently 61% of US firearms owners have had formal safety training. One interesting thing is that those who have had formal training are far less likely to store their weapons unloaded and locked, which is one primary contention of most modern firearms safety training. It seems the more we know, the less likely we are to place a weapon where we can't get at it quickly.
 
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