...putting theft in piecemeal isn't going to work. Someone will always find a way to game the game if not implemented properly.
I think you are spot-on there, hence why we are having this conversation right now as theft is going in piecemeal - all mechanics are going in piecemeal, they can't just flip a switch and have feature complete sets pop into the game all fully formed as the game is in active development, not a finished product. If the hope was for the players to inform the directions of this, my response is that for some major game play aspects such as big game impacting mechanics like this, you just have to take charge and provide the direction from the creation team saying "This is our intention and this is how it's going to be" and minimise the 'We'll work that out later' as that is almost an invitation for players to theorycraft a gap to fill the void.
Some things the Devs might have needed to/might have considered when making this Loot Mechanic decision:
- DOASM is a fixed point. We know we got one life and a certain undefined number of close-shaves. Making everyone loot pinatas encourages a higher turnover in death rate, makes the game more dangerous for players from other players. Anything that artificially increases a players direction to end-of-life needs to be balanced and being a walking loot crate for stronger players is going to see some players meet a premature end outside of their own actions and their own control which is not a satisfying way to end a play through especially when DOASM is such a big penalty for losing your in game life.
- Casual gamers, trolls and people genuinely harassing people online is also a fixed point. As noble as some intentions for bold, genre defying legit gameplay are, they cannot override the fact that some players are there for their own amusement and don't give a flying hoot about grand visions - they are there for fun and some peoples fun is using the best literality works humanity has ever produced as toilet paper for nothing more than their own personal amusement. Even if most don't, some will dump on the vision and in the process sour it for those who are on board with it.
- Making 100% of items on a person lootable including flair and cosmetics deincentivises players from buying from a Flair and Cosmetics market with Real Life cash the Devs could leverage to run the servers after the game goes live. Cosmetics are not consumables in the current game market and one of the pillars of the SC project is no publisher dick moves. Making cosmetics consumable/semi consumable to force repeat sales of said cosmetics is a way big publisher dick move. It won't come to that, as you are supposed to be able to get your flair back eventually if it goes walkies, but from the outside it looks like a sales tactic rather than their trying to plug a loophole they only just discovered (if that is what happened, seems so), but potentially they have just killed the thing which was going to keep SC alive beyond the first few years. I'm not kidding, that's what I think potentially this could do. How are they going to keep the lights on once the last ship has sold and the last retail unit has been through the register?
- And finally the balance between realism and fun. It's realistic to have all your crap stolen from you in Real Life but in a computer game that is not realistic because having to go pick up all your crap from your corpse or replace it from 12 different shops is not fun, it's an inconvenience at best, and indeed when I'm dead I'm not going to be able to go find whoever took my Casio from my cold lifeless wrist and take it back off them. At the end of the day there are many things that make Real Life suck. Games are an entertainment and an escape from that suck. If something in a game sucks, unfortunately, there are other games to play which don't feature said suckage. SC doesn't exist in a vacuum it has to be able to compete with other entertainment properties. It is unique, but so is the uncompromising Durian fruit. People still in the main reach for Apples and Bananas before the Durian as although it is the "King of Fruit" some of its features still suck more than other options.
My suggestion of shoplifting is to remove the risk of everyone being targeted for literally anything down to food and water without which our characters would die, and going back to DOASM, there is a driving force to make sure your character doesn't die and if that means killing another player for their Cheese Puffs so be it. Shoplifting is a way to ensure everyone no matter what their circumstances as constrained by the game are always fully stocked up with the basics. Just pray you don't run across a dude who ate his last pretzel a few hours ago and is too busy to get back to the The Five Finger Discount to stock up.
"Your burrito or your life" - the strong will always prey upon the weak, especially in a game where there are no consequences for them in reality and it gives them entertainment and joy doing so. How to ensure a good game for the weak as well as the strong? The weak'll walk if the only reason for their existence in the game is to be someone else's play thing.
Personally, full loot isn’t going to work in SC. You are always going to be worried about someone ganking you because you have xyz item in your backpack. Therefore, you are going to shoot them before they shoot you.
Thus, cooperative gameplay is gone as you need to assume that if you meet another person, you are going to need to kill them if you get the chance…because you must assume they will do the same to you.
no medical gameplay, because people who respond will get killed. One person removed and dropped the weapons carried by someone who put out a medical beacon…told them this and that they would get their guns back…and when revived, they entered melee combat and killed the responding person. This is happening now in game.
CR wants a world where you need other people, but has designed a world where you can’t trust other players. He need to make a decision. Either this is a full loot game with open PvP everywhere, but you no longer need others to play the game or even pilot big ships and this turns into EvE online 2.0, or you dial it WAY back. Looting player corpses of all stuff is gone. You might get a drop or two, but the player retains their good on revive. PvP gets banished to small areas in-game (only certain systems don’t have immediate consequences against PvP actions) or becomes a 2 party consensual system. DoaS gets reworked. CRs ideas did not work out back in 1997 and they don’t work today for MMOs, at least, ones that have a decent number of players.
There are many contradicting directions being pulled in. We have a drive for co-op play with things like ships built only to work their best with a large crew but everyone is vulnerable to everyone else friend and foe alike. We have a RL money paid for cosmetics system but they are almost consumables losable to other players. We have a limited number of close shaves in game before what is basically a reset, but the push is for PvP battle which ends in frequent death.
It's either very intended and an audacious move that means Star Citizen is not only going to bring never before seen technology to gaming, but also never before seen freedom and consequence where people really will have to live with the permanent repercussions of their actions in game as they do in Real Life, which is the only way having totally free play can function without anrchy, or... or it's all unintended and... and...
I'd prefer to presume the first option of real and lasting consequence in a game and they are aiming for the Org system to become a major way of making teams and factions of people who can trust each other (In which case TEST needs to prepare a robust system for kicking out people who only join to disrupt the Org and ruin its reputation for us being able to trust and play with each other) but with it going in bit by bit rather than as a feature set, they need to tell us that's what's going on and to have at least an intended plan, the full intention which can be communicated and that everyone understands that's the direction which can then be modified as issues come to light - and although feedback is welcome for some things stop with the 'We'll work that out later' response as that just invites the community to fill in the gap, have a direction which doesn't rely on gauging the salt level to it first or salt is going to be the only flavour some players ever taste... maybe consulting trusted players/evo before even starting to implement the mechanics of the plan if it's going to be a big mechanic, so when the larger portion of players push back they can already have a thought out informed response prepared.
I think something which may have to be taken more account of is: even if in game consequences are made concrete they still don't effect a players Real Life. After they click the "Shut Down" button there are no consequences - and just as in a Hollywood Movie, the man walking away from the gas station flicking the lit cigarette over his shoulder ending in a fiery explosion, he doesn't have to assist in the cleanup, he doesn't have to witness a family running out of fuel on the road because the station was a crater, he doesn't have to shoulder the insurance claims and the rebuild or the restocking or the grand reopening. He just walks away and gets on with the rest of his life. There will be players who have an exploding gas station moment and go off and live the rest of their lives leaving SC and the 'Verse behind. Even if there are real and lasting game consequences, nothing in the world is going to force them to come back to the game world to suffer them.
I understand and respect the Devs desire to make something the community drives and include them in the process of mechanics being made, but at 3.3 million accounts it ends up being like the UK voting system: In 2019 Only just under 70% of the population were registered to vote in the first place and with the "First past the post" system it means that with 41% of the registered vote, the incumbents did win, but in real actual terms that means that the 2019 general election was won by a party who got the vote of only 20% of the backing of the whole population of the country - Only a certain number of users are active on Spectrum. Only a few certain types of players are represented vocally on there.
Blessed are the noize makers, for they shall be seen as the community of SC. But blessed also are the meek, for truly they shall inherit the 'Verse
robertsspaceindustries.com
