what is yalls opinions on org taxes?

[Lordgarrett99]

eventually, the game will come out and organizations will need ways to pay for their activities/endeavors/etc... , taxes are one of those methods

personally: i think taxes (if needed) should be optional with benefits included for paying a small portion of your income to the org each month, and by small portion i mean 5-7.5%.

benefits if you pay taxes should include something along the lines of: discounts for buying ships from the org, free allowances of materials like fuel/ammo/etc... from the org each month, free (and possibly limited) use of org ships, and maybe a few other benefits.

these benefits could also be amplified by the amount of raw taxes you pay, up to a certain point, lets say 4-5 different tiers of benefits based on the raw tax amount you pay to the org each month.

However: i am strongly opposed to mandatory taxes, even if they include benefits, what is the point of such benefits of that taxing method if paying means you wont get removed?

besides, i think it is out of nature for this org to even consider taxing its own members, due to how laid back we are and how lenient we are on membership requirements.

but regardless, what do yall say?

 

[Khallx]

Too early to discuss this, need to see what ORG 2.0 will bring with its vertical Org features. Also knowing our leadership no taxes will be mandatory ... we have enough loyal members to foot the bill. Although, we will talk shit behind the backs of free loaders... that kind of goes without saying hehe.

 

[Chromeninja]

I collect taxes on my Only Fans <3

 

[White Lando]

I was planning on setting aside a portion of my profits to the org.

Would donate more when there's a specific goal (like a new sweet cap ship) that is released for UEC purchase in game.

 

[Bambooza]

Too early to discuss this, need to see what ORG 2.0 will bring with its vertical Org features. Also knowing our leadership no taxes will be mandatory ... we have enough loyal members to foot the bill. Although, we will talk shit behind the backs of free loaders... that kind of goes without saying hehe.

Oh we don't talk shit behind their backs when we can grab a beer and say it to their face while handing them a beer.

 

[Montoya]

1) Way to early to even try formulate an opinion about a mechanic we have no idea about and no grasp about the inputs and outputs.

2) The game will definitely have money sinks that an org will have to pay

3) Im taxing you double!

 

[maynard]

I have no way to test this so it's not theorycrafting ...

we will need to fund a mighty fleet in order to conquer the 'Verse

15% of mission earnings will probably do the job

there will be a payoff from controlling lucrative systems

 

[Han Burgundy]

Uninformed and unqualified opinion: No taxes for casual members, only yearly "dues" or tributes to our godking. Taxes for members of special units can go TO those units at a rate that is individually set (Example: Rock raiders takes a 3% cut while YellowJackets take 5%, leading to an 8% total tax for myself as an individual.) That way you are actually funding the activities that you are directly interested in and not pitching all of your wealth into some random credit-sink that someone else went crazy on.

/$0.02

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I have no way to test this so it's not theorycrafting ...

we will need to fund a mighty fleet in order to conquer the 'Verse

15% of mission earnings will probably do the job

there will be a payoff from controlling lucrative systems

Not sure when your definition of Theorycraft is from?

Mine is from 2005 and says you don't need to test it to be able to make crap up about it :-)

Urban Dictionary: theorycraft

Theorycraft refers to any game strategy that exists only in theory and never actually put into action. "Theorycraft" originated from the PC game Starcraft. The term was coined after countless new players would argue with each other about how certain strategies were superior to other strategies...

www.urbandictionary.com

Might have changed since but that's the way I've always known it. You must be one of them there young'uns I've been warned about!

 

[Aramsolari]

Theory crafting at this point.

I personally don't mind taxes as long as I see results. Health care, infrastructure, good schools, fiscal responsibility...

Wait we're talking about Star Citizen?! Err....carry on!

 

[maynard]

... No taxes for casual members, only yearly "dues" or tributes to our godking. Taxes for members of special units can go TO those units at a rate that is individually set (Example: Rock raiders takes a 3% cut while YellowJackets take 5%, leading to an 8% total tax for myself as an individual.) That way you are actually funding the activities that you are directly interested in and not pitching all of your wealth into some random credit-sink that someone else went crazy on.

sounds like you're advocating for democracy

which has proved disastrous for org governance in other games

we have the proven effective model - a benevolent dictatorship

be grateful for the opportunity to give a large portion of your hard-earned credits to Dear Leader for whatever purpose he deems worthy

that's how we will achieve the Fame and Glory we long to bask in

 

[Raven_King]

Nah. A UEC income tax requires you to keep track of your earnings. That's tedious. The game doesn't do it for you right now. Some of us do it manually, at least sometimes, but all the time?! No thanks. I'd be more keen if the game UI told you what you earned per unit of time (day/month/whatever).

And why a flat rate income tax for all? Some players might feel more or less strongly aligned to the org. Some players only dip in and out of org business once in a while, and may enjoy doing stuff on their own or stuff that doesn't really earn much, so taxing them is a lot of effort for relatively little UEC. (I'm thinking of the player who was into homesteading - was that here, or on reddit?)

How about a MUCH looser model when the time comes. Something more like the one that (I hope!) funds this forum.

Org costs: Suppose we set one or more specific, time-bound fundraising goals: we want to raise x million UEC by y date for z purpose. Repeat as needed. Then we spend the UEC on what it was raised for, transparently.

Transparency: Suppose we put a current 'progress towards goal' meter somewhere very visible; here and/or on Discord or wherever we meet/talk by that time. As people donate UEC, it gets updated. When the time period is up, it resets to zero and we publish how well we did in previous fundraising rounds, and who contributed.

Org income: No pressure, no hassle, no tedious accounting. Players contribute to the group funds as they wish, according to whatever criteria they please. Give what you want, when you want, if you want.

If you don't care about the goal, don't want to participate in group activities that have a cost or feel you don't have enough UEC to spare, that's fine, have fun, you're still welcome.
If you're a sneaky cheapskate freeloader, you can still join in the stuff that the org spends money on without paying, at least for a while, and nobody will notice much.
If you're generous and public spirited, you can donate some UEC over to the org account and help fund the expensive group stuff. You can choose to donate in your in game name, or anonymously. But no hassle, no drama needed whichever you choose. If you are a contributor, it'll be noticed sooner or later and people will thank you.

I think taxes are a bit of an antithesis to a game we all play for fun, however more or less seriously we take it. Nobody's fun is wrong. Donations feel good. Taxes feel bad, especially ones that require you to interrupt your play to keep accounts. Pressure to pay when you don't feel like it is bad. Chasing a player for their taxes would suck for both parties. I don't think this would do much for the org's relaxed vibe.

Do we really care that much about everybody contributing their exact fair share that we'll suck the fun out of playing and being in the org? I'll happily chip in half a mill UEC once in a while for a fundraising goal I care about (maintaining an org-level military fleet and beating all comers in battle, or operating a 'fuel rats' service or whatever makes most sense when the time comes, stocking an in-game org shop with rare/hard to find resources/items). There could possibly be plenty of good reasons to fundraise in the distant future, but raising those costs should be as chill as playing the game or chatting on this forum is.

No one is forced to be a donor here, nor should they be! Everyone's welcome.

 

[Han Burgundy]

sounds like you're advocating for democracy

which has proved disastrous for org governance in other games

we have the proven effective model - a benevolent dictatorship

be grateful for the opportunity to give a large portion of your hard-earned credits to Dear Leader for whatever purpose he deems worthy

that's how we will achieve the Fame and Glory we long to bask in

 

[Sky Captain]

What is yalls opinions on org taxes?

Even if we knew all of the in-game dynamics, this still would be complicated to figure out. For example, if someone owns multiple capital ships in game, repairing them at their expense, but which are regularly crewed by others in the fleet, would we tax that capital ship owner the same as others with no capital ship? Or would the capital ship owner be a recipient of taxed funds to support repairs? Taking that a step further, if taxes did support repairs of capital ships used by the fleet, would an owner who logged their capital in once a month receive the same stipend as another who logs one in every day? With tax rules to cover all such conundrums, we'd soon find ourselves needing more org inspectors and accountants than we needed pilots. No fun.

 

[Vavrik]

3) Im taxing you double!

Well, my mouth is zipped shut. Hence I carefully am typing.
But I also think we need to see how things pan out before going down rabbit holes.

 

[Bambooza]

Well, my mouth is zipped shut. Hence I carefully am typing.
But I also think we need to see how things pan out before going down rabbit holes.

Sounds like you need some more alcohol. So finish this one so I can pour you another. :)

 

[vahadar]

ahhh org tax Eve style, yeeeekkkk /me run away ^^

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I'd say NO. No tax.
Whomever wants, contributes what they want, whenever they want. That's it.

My personal reasons are:
- it alienates a lot of ppl from the game. EVE is a great example. There were (are?) 3 types of orgs in that "game". One where you don't pay tax and everyone just wanders around doing their own thing and the org is merely a separate chat channel while you work, I mean play that "game". The other 2 types are where you pay a lot to a little cunt who gets rich and when ppl stop paying cos of no return on their investment, he robs the org and the org falls apart. The other type is the large guilds where you get a return on your investment, but you are basically required to work, I mean play, 24/7 to make the tax. And in that game if you are not in a large org, you are basically just prey, unable to advance or really enjoy the game after a point, which even a casual like me reached in like half a year. I experienced all three of these and promptly quit. I wanted to have fun, not another effing workplace.
Same goes for WoW guilds btw, as 15 years of experience in that game thought me.
- I already pay about 70% of my income as tax irl, I'm Not gonna pay taxes when I'm trying to escape from the real world into this virtual one
- There's a million reasons why someone should be taxed differently to others. What the player just enjoys helping out by salvaging and repairing org ships as a job? They use the stuff they scrapped to repair, they make no money cos they do it for the guild, for fun. They should get payed fromt he tax, not taxed.. Same goes for doctors and such, they will probably have more expenses than income.

- This is TEST. I joined because it promised beer and that it would NOT be the above EVE-like large org with strict ranks and tasks and orders and taxes and all that bullshit.

TLDR.:
If there is mandatory taxation in any shape or form, I'ma gonna head out. I'm here to play a game, not here to play "adult". It's already tiresome enough to do that irl lol

 

[Ayeteeone]

Taxes..??? I'll figure my own donations to the beer fund, thank you very much AND You can pry my calculator from my cold, dead hands... (which happens a couple of times a week in this patch, at least, and as I have yet to make it back to my body, it's there for the taking).

@Lordgarrett99 not sure what perspective you are coming from to ask this question. @Lorddarthvik makes some very solid points based in the shitshow that EvE Online is, where it is accepted that a few players take advantage of many players who are seeking the higher end content. Exploitation at a grand scale was built into the game structure and encouraged by the developers in the name of drama and 'emergent gameplay'. After 10-ish years you COULD NOT PAY ME to ever play that game again.

Having spewed that.. I do believe that there will be legitimate org goals in the game. What little has been said in this regard is ripe for speculation (cue @Shadow Reaper ) but as Glorious Leader @Montoya stated there will be money sinks for orgs. Capitol ship operation is intended as one such sink that has been openly stated by CIG.

@Han Burgundy offered some interesting ideas around basing it on activity. No idea if the game will develop in that direction, but in my mind he offers a possible working compromise.

 

[Aramsolari]

Taxes..??? I'll figure my own donations to the beer fund, thank you very much AND You can pry my calculator from my cold, dead hands... (which happens a couple of times a week in this patch, at least, and as I have yet to make it back to my body, it's there for the taking).

@Lordgarrett99 not sure what perspective you are coming from to ask this question. @Lorddarthvik makes some very solid points based in the shitshow that EvE Online is, where it is accepted that a few players take advantage of many players who are seeking the higher end content. Exploitation at a grand scale was built into the game structure and encouraged by the developers in the name of drama and 'emergent gameplay'. After 10-ish years you COULD NOT PAY ME to ever play that game again.

Having spewed that.. I do believe that there will be legitimate org goals in the game. What little has been said in this regard is ripe for speculation (cue @Shadow Reaper ) but as Glorious Leader @Montoya stated there will be money sinks for orgs. Capitol ship operation is intended as one such sink that has been openly stated by CIG.

@Han Burgundy offered some interesting ideas around basing it on activity. No idea if the game will develop in that direction, but in my mind he offers a possible working compromise.

Agreed. In all seriousness I do think we ought to dial back the theory crafting a bit.

There's too much of that going on lately. Whether it's what ships to use for X, Y, Z scenario (A certain user in this community who has put me on ignore is guilty of that lol) or in this case a topic as controversial as taxation. I mean what's the point of people getting all hot and heavy over stuff that may or may not be true?

Hell..CR might suddenly keel over and this game never see the light of day. In the meantime let's just all take one small step back.