Fleet compositions

[Messie]

Been thinking about what would make for good fleet compositions in various situations and thought id throw it out to the crowd. There are lots of different situations you could want to put a fleet together for that would effect what ships you took but to keep it simple lets say you were going into a head on pvp competition, 20 v 20 (players) in open space -

You have no idea what the other team is going to bring,
You can bring as many ships of whatever size or type that you like.
You can crew your ships however you like.
You can only have 20 players total.


WHAT DO YOU CHOOSE?!!?!1111

 

[Shadow Reaper]

1 Javelin and 4 Gladius to kill the incoming Eclipse.
or
6 Eclipse and 14 Gladius if you're the hunter rather than the hunted

It will always be more advantageous to be the hunter rather than the hunted. I think you need to set the scene with more details of the environ before you can make a better guess than these. Certainly there is room for improvement.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

It's a TEST fleet, it's 20 Auroras.

And Welcome Aboard!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

For a long range hunting party a Polaris with a handful of M50 scouts may prevail. For an inexpensive dive into PVE hunting, I recommend a lone Liberator, 3 Eclipse, 9 M50 escorts for the Eclipse and a Lancer MIS for cover fire. That's a cheap entry to fleet actions that only takes about 14 players. "Cheap" if each fighter pilot brings his own M50. Add a Vulcan for extended ops.

 

[BUTUZ]

1 perseus
1 hammerhead
1 terrapin

 

[DrunkSpacePeej]

Slow assault or heavy defense...

Hammerhead - 9 fully crewed?
Redeemer - 4
Sentinel - 2
Andromeda - 2 (for the missile spam, and just one gunner for defense)
Remaining 3 in small fighters like Arrow/Gladius

 

[vahadar]

Been thinking about what would make for good fleet compositions in various situations and thought id throw it out to the crowd. There are lots of different situations you could want to put a fleet together for that would effect what ships you took but to keep it simple lets say you were going into a head on pvp competition, 20 v 20 (players) in open space -

You have no idea what the other team is going to bring,
You can bring as many ships of whatever size or type that you like.
You can crew your ships however you like.
You can only have 20 players total.


WHAT DO YOU CHOOSE?!!?!1111

Using only flight ready? And I guess since its a head on pvp competition, not a battle of attrition (like dont need scout/rearm/repair/refuel).

10 Hurricanes, fully crewed, 2*CF447, rear turret 50% laser/distortion (2*NDB30-2*XJ3)

Shredding everything we have atm, and this has been battle tested before (5 hurricane with a mix of disto versus 15 opponents including a HH, all 15 died that was 10 ships total, all hurricane survived). Hammerhead poped in a few seconds, small fighters (a mix of gladius / hornets / vanguards sentinel) had a hard time and died quickly.
Stay grouped and focus fire.

 

[Messie]

some cool ideas, I hope Star citizen see some large organsied competitions like this at some point - anyone play EvE online and rememeber the alliance pvp tournament? CCP went to town with it streaming the fights live with commentators and stuff - was very cool, also really interesting to see the weird and wonderful things different teams tried each year.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I'm obviously missing something. I thought Large shields were putting out like 115k HP and cap shields were spec'd for 1M HP. The Jav is spec'd for 4C and 4L shields for a HP max of 4.460M HP with insane refresh. If that's still so I don't see how any group recommended thus far is going to contend with it. The Jav is planned to be an utter beast. IIUC, it was designed to require one or more S10 guns to kill it. Is this no longer so?

 

[Messie]

can you think of a group that could take it on? (other than just another javelin)

What about if javelins and idrisis were off the table?

 

[vahadar]

I'm obviously missing something. I thought Large shields were putting out like 115k HP and cap shields were spec'd for 1M HP. The Jav is spec'd for 4C and 4L shields for a HP max of 4.460M HP with insane refresh. If that's still so I don't see how any group recommended thus far is going to contend with it. The Jav is planned to be an utter beast.

Oh the Jav is a beast but it will suck vs small fighters. It has almost no AA guns exept for those twin size 4*3 mounted on each side. So no AA front coverage, no AA rear coverage, no AA bottom coverage (those size 4 can't shoot at the bottom direction of the ship). Plus rear has absolutely zero gun coverage except for the 2 big boys S9*4 (useless vs AA). Torpedo coming to the rear of the ship, nothing can shoot at it (dont count on those S9 guns to do it ^^).
I own a Javelin, and if they are not going to boost its AA before release, that's a no no in the end I think. Even the Merchantman is getting point defense recently.

So 1 jav + 4 gladius, vs 4 gladius + 16 eclipse, I'd say, bye bye Jav (even 6 Eclipse would shred a Javelin, has been done first time during ILW2950 with Eclipse and Tallies, there are many videos about that) ;)
You dont even need that many Eclipse to kill a Javelin I bet. 1 Eclipse is already enough to kill one Idris if you dumbfire your torps at the same spot each time.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I am totally lost. I was under the impression the Jav has 2 S10 (Cap Killer) guns and 11 AA turrets of indeterminate size--but I was guessing quad S4s, plus undetermined missiles. I thought the Jav already made a quick appearance and had had its weapons fitout determined so I don't get the disconnect here. Sounds like you're saying it is helpless against fighters, but why then all the turrets?

What I do recall is, CIG was going with the American Battleship design mode for UEE and the Japaneese mode for Vanduul, meaning more firepower for Vanduul (3 S10 cap killers) and much more shielding, armor and damage control systems for the Jav. It was supposed to be able to take unheard of pounding and keep plugging away.

 

[vahadar]

I am totally lost. I was under the impression the Jav has 2 S10 (Cap Killer) guns and 11 AA turrets of undertermined size--but I was guessing quad S4s, plus undetermined missiles. I thought the Jav already made a quick appearance and had had its weapons fitout determined so I don't get the disconnect here. Sounds like you're saying it is helpless against fighters, but why then all the turrets?

Javelin has :

4 twin S7 on the front of the ship (2 top, 2 bottom)

2*3 twin S7 on the sides (3 twin turrets each side) + 2*3 twin S4 (and they really can shoot only on the sides and a bit on the top) and its the same turret (the S4 is manned by the same guy who is manning the S7) means if you use the S4 tracking a target you cant shoot with the S7 as it is not tracking that same target as fast as the S4.

3 twin S7 on the bottom

2 quadruple S9 STS guns on the top and bottom

It was possible for exemple last ILW to tour the Javelin and man the turrets (S7 and S4 combo) and oh boy those S7 tracking is soooooo slow.

edit : Or maybe the STS turrets are 2 quadruple S8 (2*4 S8), I dont recall, anyway, tracking is still horrible.
Also Javelin has zero missiles, only torpedoes.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Wow. That really does hurt the whole design. I'm very surprised CIG turned it into a big Perseus.

Does anyone recall what was spec'd for the Bengal? Does it likewise have no AA?

I just went hunting on Erkul and there are no more S9 nor S10 guns on it. I'm trying to figure out what CIG is planning for ranged combat between cap ships. Is the S10 mass driver still the longest range gun in the game, and the Idris has it but the Jav does not?

 

[vahadar]

Wow. That really does hurt the whole design. I'm very surprised CIG turned it into a big Perseus.

Does anyone recall what was spec'd for the Bengal? Does it likewise have no AA?

Bengal has a lot of AA really :) some kind of phallanx guns (automated turrets iirc) , tons of AA turrets. It has a real good AA defense, and covering ALL sides.

You could also attack the Bengal during ILW2951, it was invincible but owwwww its AA hurts really.

 

[vahadar]

Wow. That really does hurt the whole design. I'm very surprised CIG turned it into a big Perseus.

Note that this is the loadout of the npc military version since ILW2950, and shown again for ILW2591. A player Javelin is coming stripped of weapons, so maybe the size of guns is also not the same.

Is the S10 mass driver still the longest range gun in the game, and the Idris has it but the Jav does not?

You have the S12 ship buster of the Bengal, probably the biggest for range.
But yes, Idris has S10 (mass driver or beam), Javelin has not S10 (but S9 or S8 max dont exactly recall, its the 2*4 guns on top and bottom)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I'm lost with no specs for S9, S10 and S12 weapons. I will note the S7 weapon ranges seem planned to be the 3-4 km range as the others. So I guess we're left to guess what range the S9, S10 and S12 weapons are. (I didn't even recall them adding S12 weapons, though I do recall the mixed small/large weapons turrets you noted.)

So all those S7 weapons are outranged by every missile and torp in game. How does that make sense?

 

[vahadar]

So all those S7 weapons are outranged by every missile and torp in game. How does that make sense?

S7 used to be 10km as per Ares Q&A, right now weapons are not final and have all same range (for same type), but it will change later

 

[maynard]

my dream is to hold tournaments to allow all the theorycrafters to put their ideas to the test

it would require help from CIG to be able to prevent the fuckwits from barging in and disrupting play

which is one more reason we need a sovereignty mechanic in-game

 

[FZD]

It's a TEST fleet, it's 20 Auroras.

And Welcome Aboard!

It's a test fleet, it's 20 thousand Auroras.