Star Citizen 4.9 - Instancing will kill the game?
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
I like the idea of instancing, if they can do it right. It's a good idea even for for 20 - something's like me.
As famous as it is, EvE Online is still a very niche game. It's dropout rate is spectacular and the learning curve was a concave cliff.
It's never had a large population, and CCP games tried many ways to keep the 'casuals' engaged to help pay the bills, with not a huge amount of success. For the first decade+ the most active players could pay for their subscription by grinding isk and buying Plex off of less active players to pay the bill with, so finding money to keep going was a longstanding problem.
Instancing, like wormholes and the various initiatives around how Wars were handled were all attempts to keep players in the game, and engaged in NullSec content. it was more successful than the spinoff games and other dead ends that the company tried.
@Montoya you might find this article from last April interesting if you've not seen it yet - https://wccftech.com/pearl-abyss-sells-ccp-eve-online-120-million/
It says something when a 'developer' known for predatory monetization fails to find a way to capitalize on such a long-standing IP.
For Star Citizen to be a commercial success it'll need to provide something that casual players want to come back to over and over again. That's not the folks on this forum; that's the guy and gal who have 20 active games in their steam account because they love to play games. That's the Space Dad with more money than time, the Mining Mom who flys a Mole as a relaxer. It's the 20-something who still has reflexes but is starting to choke on the toxicity in MOBA's.
The sociopaths who think that everyone should have to do things 'the way they think it should be' are actually the worst possible influence for any project, including an MMO. That's not opinion, that's science.
Instancing won't kill the game. Assholes being Assholes will kill it, when other players decide they don't want to 'deal with the shit'.
It's never had a large population, and CCP games tried many ways to keep the 'casuals' engaged to help pay the bills, with not a huge amount of success. For the first decade+ the most active players could pay for their subscription by grinding isk and buying Plex off of less active players to pay the bill with, so finding money to keep going was a longstanding problem.
Instancing, like wormholes and the various initiatives around how Wars were handled were all attempts to keep players in the game, and engaged in NullSec content. it was more successful than the spinoff games and other dead ends that the company tried.
@Montoya you might find this article from last April interesting if you've not seen it yet - https://wccftech.com/pearl-abyss-sells-ccp-eve-online-120-million/
It says something when a 'developer' known for predatory monetization fails to find a way to capitalize on such a long-standing IP.
For Star Citizen to be a commercial success it'll need to provide something that casual players want to come back to over and over again. That's not the folks on this forum; that's the guy and gal who have 20 active games in their steam account because they love to play games. That's the Space Dad with more money than time, the Mining Mom who flys a Mole as a relaxer. It's the 20-something who still has reflexes but is starting to choke on the toxicity in MOBA's.
The sociopaths who think that everyone should have to do things 'the way they think it should be' are actually the worst possible influence for any project, including an MMO. That's not opinion, that's science.
Instancing won't kill the game. Assholes being Assholes will kill it, when other players decide they don't want to 'deal with the shit'.
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instancing is just a necessity out of the force of reality - the design had to evolve so that SC doesn't end up as a failed pipe dream. but that poster is not entirely wrong about CIG failing, because they made a mistake by setting the player capacity for shards and servers to a number that is too high. the physics engine in star citizen was made during the 1.x and 2.x days and is now breaking because it was made for an environment with 50 players or less.
that being said, CIG do need to optimize both the server software and the client software to run better, and rework the physics so it doesn't break when there are more than 50 players in a game server. instancing will not help if the physics are still breaking under a heavy workload.
also, I took a minute to read parts of that article about instancing from chris roberts - what he described in that article is what is now commonly referred to as "replication layer" (which in the article he calls "the Galaxy Server") and "shards" (which are referred to in the article as "battle instances"). the layering of game servers with the replication layer, shards and game servers is obviously an evolution of the original plan, with instances being the latest addition feature-wise. the replication server handles the back-end while the large-area game servers and smaller-scale instance servers handle the actual live gameplay.
BTW, in eve online, people can find your filament entrance and enter your instance and attack you. that feature does not put you in a safe space.
that being said, CIG do need to optimize both the server software and the client software to run better, and rework the physics so it doesn't break when there are more than 50 players in a game server. instancing will not help if the physics are still breaking under a heavy workload.
also, I took a minute to read parts of that article about instancing from chris roberts - what he described in that article is what is now commonly referred to as "replication layer" (which in the article he calls "the Galaxy Server") and "shards" (which are referred to in the article as "battle instances"). the layering of game servers with the replication layer, shards and game servers is obviously an evolution of the original plan, with instances being the latest addition feature-wise. the replication server handles the back-end while the large-area game servers and smaller-scale instance servers handle the actual live gameplay.
BTW, in eve online, people can find your filament entrance and enter your instance and attack you. that feature does not put you in a safe space.
Casual players absolutely need to be thought of when SC is designed. In a proper game, casuals foot 70-80 percent of the bill. Hard core players(and more recently, even some casuals) have tended to come in, run for 3 months, then drop out for 3-4 months. This is why WoW has tried to find ways to keep those players subscribed. Rewards for 6 month subs, shifting to a system that rolls out a new raid every 2-3 months, etc.
granted this is a subscription based syste, but honestly, I don’t see SC getting a FTP game after alpha…they boxed themselves into a corner thinking UEC sales would fund it all, but it won’t. It merely sets a ceiling on the gold sellers.
I see SC needing to implement at least a subscription based system with “time cards” like plex that EVE, WoW, and EQ have. It still has the ”no cash subscription” needed to play, but it gives very active players the ability to use in-game currency to buy said subscription instead of cash.
otherwise, we will continue to have ship sales and to keep those sales brining in the money, they will have to be more powerful than existing ships, leading to mudfltion (in a different way). Ship sales also don’t bring in consistent money like subs do. Ship sales can still exist with subs, and maybe purchasing x amount in ships will give you a sub in addition to the ship, but subs give you the confidence and more importantly the constant income you need…otherwise you are left hoping that next ship sale gets you though the month and banks don’t always loan on things like future ship sales.
Actually I am not 100% sure that Star Citizen needs a subscription model. As long as the FOMO is as strong as it currently presents itselve (holy moley, look at them sales) things should be fine.
You'd think people learn and buy less JPGs with time, but no sir, no end of the sale craze in sight.
But yeah, server and service costs need to be secured long term and that means wise investments of the funds you currently...
hey...
Chris..!
Put that down!!! The company does NOT need NYX themed Electroscooters for indoor transportation!
Aaaah..!
Okay, where was I?
So, what I am saying is that the FOMO might verry well pay for keeping this game alive.
As long as there is a game that you can miss out on.
Alpha only works that long as an excuse.
And if Instancing helps in making this Trial an actual playable game then I am all for it.
There's still enough free space to go around for alll your mugging needs. A little instancing will hardly hurt anyone but it will go a long way towards casual player getting a foothold in this game. It's hard enough to learn the ropes without having to retrace the route from the hospital to your corpse because someone had the idea of RPGing a Psychokiller.
Ever done the Hyperion Mission and been mugged down in Sector-B?
It leads to some colorfull cursing and maybe a ragequit. Depends on how many times you died before because of the systems "stability".
Me, I am a lost case anyway but if such things happen to a new player then he'll turn around and never look back.
So before instancing, stability. The state of the game is abysmal at times, so that goes first.
And then some instancing for people who simply don't have the time or motivation for the ancient and most excellent art of non-requested PVP.
And if that all works and they still can't sell enough new ships to pay for the game-servers, THEN lets talk about service fees.
You'd think people learn and buy less JPGs with time, but no sir, no end of the sale craze in sight.
But yeah, server and service costs need to be secured long term and that means wise investments of the funds you currently...
hey...
Chris..!
Put that down!!! The company does NOT need NYX themed Electroscooters for indoor transportation!
Aaaah..!
Okay, where was I?
So, what I am saying is that the FOMO might verry well pay for keeping this game alive.
As long as there is a game that you can miss out on.
Alpha only works that long as an excuse.
And if Instancing helps in making this Trial an actual playable game then I am all for it.
There's still enough free space to go around for alll your mugging needs. A little instancing will hardly hurt anyone but it will go a long way towards casual player getting a foothold in this game. It's hard enough to learn the ropes without having to retrace the route from the hospital to your corpse because someone had the idea of RPGing a Psychokiller.
Ever done the Hyperion Mission and been mugged down in Sector-B?
It leads to some colorfull cursing and maybe a ragequit. Depends on how many times you died before because of the systems "stability".
Me, I am a lost case anyway but if such things happen to a new player then he'll turn around and never look back.
So before instancing, stability. The state of the game is abysmal at times, so that goes first.
And then some instancing for people who simply don't have the time or motivation for the ancient and most excellent art of non-requested PVP.
And if that all works and they still can't sell enough new ships to pay for the game-servers, THEN lets talk about service fees.